telephone calls

[Lugg]

Caroline the doggie is just our cover story steve will never guess who Alfie really is

WOOF WOOF

[Steve_uk]

So why weren't these "specks of blood" tested and presented at the trial? Possibly because they didn't exist?

No they were referred to by Dr. John Hayward at trial. Maybe you should avail yourself of the odd book after all..

[maggie]

He could only think of Angi Greaves at that moment on the other end of a telephone line. He didn't really dump her,just was two-timing her. He would have set her up in a London wine bar and as memories of the murders faded things would from Jeremy's standpoint have got back to normal.

I am far from convinced about you Steve, you seem to be encouraging me or someone to argue with you, particularly at the moment.

Jeremy wanted to be with her (Julie), in fact he begged her not to leave him.

He dumped her, he didn't want to be with her.

She didn't understand him any more because he seemed to prefer Brett to her.

He preferred Brett because he understood how men grieve and 21 year old Julie didn't.

Because she didn't and was immature she took this as a slight against her, she forgot what he had suffered and started to demand his attention.

It was the worst thing she could have done to a man who was trying to deal with grief.  It's something women learn late but most men know, they grieve in a very different way.

Julie could not grasp this and her constant attention seeking, demands and questions about her importance when he was suffering was far too much for Jeremy.

Men don't want cosy talks and tears, especially If they have spent years in a private boarding school, they don't know how to do that.

They want diversion and fun and understanding when they fall off the bandwagon, it's just the way they deal.

I believe Julie really didn't understand this, her immaturity then lead her to believe he was hiding something and this was encouraged by the Boutflour and Eatons.  the police then moved in and reinforced what she had been hearing/thinking.

Julie may have been many things but I think she was coerced and manipulated by EP and the families

Meanwhile, Jeremy Bamber remains in jail for a crime I cannot believe he committed.

[Steve_uk]

I am far from convinced about you Steve, you seem to be encouraging me or someone to argue with you, particularly at the moment.

Jeremy wanted to be with her (Julie), in fact he begged her not to leave him.

He dumped her, he didn't want to be with her.

She didn't understand him any more because he seemed to prefer Brett to her.

He preferred Brett because he understood how men grieve and 21 year old Julie didn't.

Because she didn't and was immature she took this as a slight against her, she forgot what he had suffered and started to demand his attention.

It was the worst thing she could have done to a man who was trying to deal with grief.  It's something women learn late but most men know, they grieve in a very different way.

Julie could not grasp this and her constant attention seeking, demands and questions about her importance when he was suffering was far too much for Jeremy.

Men don't want cosy talks and tears, especially If they have spent years in a private boarding school, they don't know how to do that.

They want diversion and fun and understanding when they fall off the bandwagon, it's just the way they deal.

I believe Julie really didn't understand this, her immaturity then lead her to believe he was hiding something and this was encouraged by the Boutflour and Eatons.  the police then moved in and reinforced what she had been hearing/thinking.

Julie may have been many things but I think she was coerced and manipulated by EP and the families
Meanwhile, Jeremy Bamber remains in jail for a crime I cannot believe he committed.

But there was no grief. Julie saw it. She heard it from Jeremy's own lips at Blazer's restaurant Blackheath:"I don't feel anything..maybe there's something wrong with me..". Julie realized that this was not a man with whom she had a future,with whom she could have children. She got out.

[maggie]

But there was no grief. Julie saw it. She heard it from Jeremy's own lips at Blazer's restaurant Blackheath:"I don't feel anything..maybe there's something wrong with me..". Julie realized that this was not a man with whom she had a future,with whom she could have children. She got out.

Where is that quote from Steve?

[Lugg]

No they were referred to by Dr. John Hayward at trial. Maybe you should avail yourself of the odd book after all..

Were they tested?

[Lugg]

Where is that quote from Steve?

Of course her very expression at the funeral as she comforts Jeremy contradicts what she was supposed to have said. Strange isn't it Maggie that all these things were said by her AFTER Jeremy broke up with her. The words "woman" and "scorned" come to mind. In fact there is a clear break in her words before he dumped ner and her words after he dumped her. Again the words "tissue" and "lies" come to mind.

[maggie]

Where is that quote from Steve?

Sorry Steve but Julie was a bit of an unaware 21 year old.  At that age women are not always quite on the ball. 
It takes experience to develop a woman into someone who is mature enough and knowing enough to be able to evaluate a mans behaviour.
I would believe and I do understand this, being a woman, having a mother, a sister, 2 daughters and being a woman of some experience myself that Julie simply didn't get Jeremy, I would further evaluate that Jeremy didn't get Julie, therefore there was a breakdown in understanding which lead to Jeremy making advances to other women because at least he may get a bit of comfort for a short while from someone like that. 
I doubt he was looking for a long term relationship, he was just trying to cope. Unfortunately, so was Julie but while he was trying to deal with the loss of 5 members of his family, she was just worrying whether he 'loved' her any more.

[maggie]

Of course her very expression at the funeral as she comforts Jeremy contradicts what she was supposed to have said. Strange isn't it Maggie that all these things were said by her AFTER Jeremy broke up with her. The words "woman" and "scorned" come to mind. In fact there is a clear break in her words before he dumped ner and her words after he dumped her. Again the words "tissue" and "lies" come to mind.

It's true Lugg she looked very concerned and very comforting. 
Of course it could also be seen as controlling. 
The fact is she was in charge at that point and therefore happy to be in that situation, very different from when she found Brett was the chosen one not her and she had lost her power over Jeremy. imo

[maggie]

But there was no grief. Julie saw it. She heard it from Jeremy's own lips at Blazer's restaurant Blackheath:"I don't feel anything..maybe there's something wrong with me..". Julie realized that this was not a man with whom she had a future,with whom she could have children. She got out.

Maybe Jeremy did say those words but just stop for a minute Steve, think about a different connotation on what Jeremy was saying.

Maybe he was just asking her why after all the horror he didn't feel anything and then remember the psychological  problem many traumatised people have who find it hard to grasp anything about a traumatic event and the months before they can truly emote with what went on. 
Traumatised people can take years to come to terms with violent behaviour, it doesn't happen overnight.
Do you never wonder that you are accusing and condemning a man who was possibly wrongly accused, massively traumatised and totally misunderstood to a life in prison. Hope you have seriously thought this through Steve.

[Caroline R]

WOOF WOOF

Alfie - OK, he needs a damn good shave but he's a pretty good detective as long as you have a biscuit!! But he is a bit vain!

[Reader]

Who or what is 1990? Is this PC West?

Yes, definitely.

It is reasonable to assume that Ralph would have dialed 999 which is not highlighted.

Ralph was a magistrate, so he may have known the number of Chelmsford police station. Also, it's argued that Ralph was the sort of person who might prefer not to dial 999, especially if no shooting had taken place in WHF at the time he called.

Essex police have behaved strangely with regard to their logs, denying there was more to disclose until a court order required them to disclose more. There are various indications that further information is still withheld, such as copies of audio tapes made. Some things which almost certainly occurred are not mentioned in the disclosed logs.

They must have had the technology. Otherwise they could not bill anyone for every call made.

They didn't bill local calls individually. There are some notes on BT's history on their corporate website that mention the introduction of itemized billing (for certain business customers in London) in 1986.

[susan]

Morning steve  grief can affect people in different ways some just shut down totally and that is the worst thing a person can do some cry buckets and talk about the deaths and that is much better for them but it all depends on the type of person you are emotionally maybe Jeremy had taught himself to shut down with happenings at his school and I think he would have realized at a young age the extended family had little time for him so don't be listening to Julie she is telling you what she wants you to believe.  Remember we saw no emotion at Diana's funeral from her two sons Wills and Harry who worshipped her.  Some people can cry for the sake of it when they think it is to their advantage!!!!  You stated Julie got out I don't think so she was put out and had this not happened she would have been more than delighted to have Jeremy Bamber the Father of her children and he would not be serving life for a crime he did not commit steve wake up and smell the coffee

[susan]

Morning Caroline  Alfie has every right to be vain with his good looks

[susan]

Morning Maggie  I see Julie Mugford as a total control freak and after the deaths of Jeremy's family she anticipated being more in control and thought she would be taking Jeremy over.  What a shock to her confidence and ego when she was dumped revenge big time comes to mind then compensated by the £25,000 which was a fortune then especially to a young girl from the North hope her good works are now helping to ease her guilt as she is bound to have this emotion from time to time and as she gets older it will get stronger.