Author Topic: David Boutflour found a silencer in a cupboard in the garage at whf  (Read 9572 times)

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chelmsey

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Down in garage - no bolts.Could this simply imply that the garage was insecure security wise?

Offline Kaldin

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Down in garage - no bolts.Could this simply imply that the garage was insecure security wise?

Yes, it could mean that. It's a bit vague really.

Offline mike tesko

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Down in garage - no bolts.Could this simply imply that the garage was insecure security wise?
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Could just be a typing mistake "D" instead of "d"...

There is no full stop in that part of the note...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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Down in garage - no bolts.Could this simply imply that the garage was insecure security wise?
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Could just be a typing mistake "D" instead of "d"...

There is no full stop in that part of the note...

It could be, but it also could be a new sentence. There is no full stop anywhere in that bit but it's clearly not one sentence.

I get the impression that someone else typed those notes up - there are a lot of gaps and Julie is referred to as "Judy" at one point.

Offline Reader

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That's a B at the start of the registration so registered between the 1st August 1984 and the end of July 1985.
Thanks. The B 949 YWC registration corresponds to a Vauxhall Astra (silver).

Quote
Stay Vaulty with Ann to White House David finds silencer in cupboard Down in garage - no bolts, unable to sleep

See what I mean? He might just be saying that he was in the garage. Don't know what the bit about bolts means though, and I don't know why some of it is underlined.
Perhaps "bullets" was misread or mistyped as "bolts" when the notes were typed. Can mike tesko offer any explanation of the presence of a silencer in the garage?

Offline mike tesko

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That's a B at the start of the registration so registered between the 1st August 1984 and the end of July 1985.
Thanks. The B 949 YWC registration corresponds to a Vauxhall Astra (silver).

Quote
Stay Vaulty with Ann to White House David finds silencer in cupboard Down in garage - no bolts, unable to sleep

See what I mean? He might just be saying that he was in the garage. Don't know what the bit about bolts means though, and I don't know why some of it is underlined.
Perhaps "bullets" was misread or mistyped as "bolts" when the notes were typed. Can mike tesko offer any explanation of the presence of a silencer in the garage?
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I think its possible that the Boutflours simply introduced that explanation at an early stage, to accommodate Robert Boutflours suggestion that a silencer was used in the shootings carried out by Jeremy. I think the silencer in question was one of the two silencers belonging to the Boutflours which ended up in police possession, so that by 30th August 1985, one of them, DB/1 - lab' item number 23, was submitted to the lab' to be examined, inside which was found the crucial flake of blood, and the paint from the mantelpiece upon it - I think it was one of the Boutflour silencers that ended up with all this evidence inside, or upon it...

DCI "Taff" Jones was aware of the attempt by the relatives to try and implicate Jeremy in the killings, and yet he refused to do anything at all with the silencer, that  we are speaking about, until PC "Chris'" Whiddon, came along and took control of that silencer, which in turn led to it being submitted to the lab' on 30th August 1985...

I think that originally, that silencer in the garage was nothing but a red herring, designed to bolster up Robert Boutflours theory that a silencer had been used on the gun by Jeremy on the night of the shootings..
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 10:38:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

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It's clearly a bloody capital D and related to the bolts.

I don't mind some sensible debate about some issues, but this is starting to twist words.

Of course he COULD just have said "no bolts" out of the blue eh?

Come on Mike, be realistic on this one!


Offline mike tesko

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It's clearly a bloody capital D and related to the bolts.

I don't mind some sensible debate about some issues, but this is starting to twist words.

Of course he COULD just have said "no bolts" out of the blue eh?

Come on Mike, be realistic on this one!
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Finds silencer in cupboard Down in garage - no bolts, could easily mean that he found silencer in a cupboard in the garage which had no bolts on the door...

in my opinion...

In Robert Boutflours other Diary entries, he claims his son found the silencer on 11th August 1985, not 10th August 1985...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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It's clearly a bloody capital D and related to the bolts.

I don't mind some sensible debate about some issues, but this is starting to twist words.

Of course he COULD just have said "no bolts" out of the blue eh?

Come on Mike, be realistic on this one!
-------------------------------

Finds silencer in cupboard Down in garage - no bolts, could easily mean that he found silencer in a cupboard in the garage which had no bolts on the door...

in my opinion...

In Robert Boutflours other Diary entries, he claims his son found the silencer on 11th August 1985, not 10th August 1985...

Ann Eaton said at the trial that it was found on 10th August.

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

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It's clearly a bloody capital D and related to the bolts.

I don't mind some sensible debate about some issues, but this is starting to twist words.

Of course he COULD just have said "no bolts" out of the blue eh?

Come on Mike, be realistic on this one!
-------------------------------

Finds silencer in cupboard Down in garage - no bolts, could easily mean that he found silencer in a cupboard in the garage which had no bolts on the door...

in my opinion...

In Robert Boutflours other Diary entries, he claims his son found the silencer on 11th August 1985, not 10th August 1985...

Yes, you're right, it COULD mean that at a push. But you're taking the lesser credible option and presenting that as prime.
I think it's wrong of you Mike.

Why not say "Could this indicate the silencer being found in the garage?" rather than "David Boutflour found a silencer in a cupboard in the garage at whf"

Virtually all the evidence says that wasn't the case, and yet you open with that statement?
I concede that the 'D' might be a mistake (however unlikely) and that the 'garage' doesn't relate to bolts (however unlikely) - combine them both and it becomes even more unlikely, but still possible... but come on, play fair - it's a very 'outside' point of view being presented as matter of fact.

I'd love to get to the truth, but I don't believe this technique helps anybody.

Offline mike tesko

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It's clearly a bloody capital D and related to the bolts.

I don't mind some sensible debate about some issues, but this is starting to twist words.

Of course he COULD just have said "no bolts" out of the blue eh?

Come on Mike, be realistic on this one!
-------------------------------

Finds silencer in cupboard Down in garage - no bolts, could easily mean that he found silencer in a cupboard in the garage which had no bolts on the door...

in my opinion...

In Robert Boutflours other Diary entries, he claims his son found the silencer on 11th August 1985, not 10th August 1985...

Ann Eaton said at the trial that it was found on 10th August.
... She forgot to explain about the silencer she handed over to the police on 11th September 1985...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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It's clearly a bloody capital D and related to the bolts.

I don't mind some sensible debate about some issues, but this is starting to twist words.

Of course he COULD just have said "no bolts" out of the blue eh?

Come on Mike, be realistic on this one!
-------------------------------

Finds silencer in cupboard Down in garage - no bolts, could easily mean that he found silencer in a cupboard in the garage which had no bolts on the door...

in my opinion...

In Robert Boutflours other Diary entries, he claims his son found the silencer on 11th August 1985, not 10th August 1985...

Yes, you're right, it COULD mean that at a push. But you're taking the lesser credible option and presenting that as prime.
I think it's wrong of you Mike.

Why not say "Could this indicate the silencer being found in the garage?" rather than "David Boutflour found a silencer in a cupboard in the garage at whf"

Virtually all the evidence says that wasn't the case, and yet you open with that statement?
I concede that the 'D' might be a mistake (however unlikely) and that the 'garage' doesn't relate to bolts (however unlikely) - combine them both and it becomes even more unlikely, but still possible... but come on, play fair - it's a very 'outside' point of view being presented as matter of fact.

I'd love to get to the truth, but I don't believe this technique helps anybody.
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Two silencers (SBJ/1 and DB/1) ended up in police possession, in addition to the Bamber silencer (DRB/1), which was found in th gun cupboard, on 11th September 1985. Police records confirm that David Boutflour did not contact them about finding that silencer (DRB/1) in the gun cupboard at whf, until 11th September 1985. Another police record shows that Ann Eaton handed that silencer over to the police on that same date. There is other evidence available to prove that the silencer in the gun cupboard at whf, was not found until after the scene had been fingerprinted by EP, and other statements still, which prove that the scene was not fingerprinted until after the nature of the investigation changed on 6th September 1985, into SC/786/85, and that at the time the silencer in the gun cupboard at whf was found, there was fingerprint dust all over the place, as verified by numerous witnesses, who claim to have been there at the house on the occasion the silencer (DRB/1) was found. Now, that is evidence which cannot be ignored, and it is bona fide evidence, no matter what anybody may wish to try and say about that...

If the above is true...

Boutflour could not have found another silencer in the same gun cupboard in the house on 10th August 1985 - it stretches the imagination a lot to expect anyone to believe such rubbish...

So, where did the other silencer come from? Where was it found? The typed notes of Robert Boutflour suggests that this other silencer (DB/1) was / could have been found in a cupboard in the garage, in the absence of any proper explanation forthcoming, from either the relatives themselves, or EP, why shouldn't one believe that this additional silencer that did find its way into police possession, was found where Robert Boutflour suggests it was found - in a cupboard Down in garage - no bolts...

that silencer could not have been found in the gun cupboard inside whf on that date (10th August 1985) for all the reasons given previously, so it is reasonable under the circumstances to assume the silencer that Robert Boutflour is talking about was found in the garage...

in my opinion...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

chelmsey

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When I first read these notes by RB, I thought to myself.........is this guy for real??? unfortunately for JB,he was! I just hope that Pamela (as soon as she got her inheritance)treated her husband to a cluedo set for him to while away his time afterwards!

On a more serious note,how much input did Pamela have with the investigation? Was she a prosecution witness in court? Because I have not seen her name crop up as much as Robert and Annes.Was she as intent on proving JBs guilt as much as her husband and daughter?

Offline lebaleb

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Nothing suspicious about Jeremy dying his hair, according to AE he had done this frequently. Nothing suspicious about clearing out Shiela's flat, it was rented so why keep it on?

Offline Kaldin

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Nothing suspicious about Jeremy dying his hair, according to AE he had done this frequently. Nothing suspicious about clearing out Shiela's flat, it was rented so why keep it on?

I don't think any of his behaviour points the finger at him to be honest. The family thought his behaviour was suspicious and so did the police but I think they were reading things into it which weren't really there. I daresay some of it has been exaggerated anyway.