David Boutflour found a silencer in a cupboard in the garage at whf

[mike tesko]

David Boutflour found a silencer in a cupboard in the garage at whf

According to typed notes that were made by Robert Boutflour, between 25th August 1985 and September same year, his son, David found a silencer in a cupboard in the garage at whf, not in the gun cupboard inside the Den of the farmhouse...

[Reader]

Does the entry "Jeremy's car Vauxhall B 949 YWC (silver and black)" correctly describe the car Jeremy drove to WHF on the morning of the murders? What does the "B" mean?

(Note: I'd misread "B" as "3"; thanks, VORTEX, for pointing that out.)

[VORTEX]

That's a B at the start of the registration so registered between the 1st August 1984 and the end of July 1985.

[HMEssex]

The entry on Sunday 1st September is interesting re change of colour of hair .  Who was he talking about and who had sandy or mousy coloured hair?  Though it is speculation on his part as to what may have occured.

[Kaldin]

Is this a different diary to the one already posted on here? Why are there two of them?

[Kaldin]

The entry on Sunday 1st September is interesting re change of colour of hair .  Who was he talking about and who had sandy or mousy coloured hair?  Though it is speculation on his part as to what may have occured.

He's possibly talking about Jeremy. Jeremy apparently dyed his hair darker the weekend before the murders.

[Kaldin]

Robert Boutflour was certainly keen to take away Jeremy's inheritance wasn't he? On 24th August - well before Jeremy had been arrested and before there was any news of the blood on the silencer - Robert Boutflour went to see "Nan". I presume that is Mrs Speakman? He advised her to change her will, and says there was a solicitor and doctor present.

[HMEssex]

Yes he was, wasn't he? 

Plus, he must have known about the argument between Nevill and his (Robert's) son-in-law, when he gave Nevill a black eye, over the money Nevill had loaned him and his wife, which was an awful lot of money.  There was obviously no love lost between the families, then they manage to go and inherit just about everything.  Presumably Robert Boutflour was not in a position to loan them the money himself.

[chelmsey]

Hi.I m new here and have been enjoying reading all your posts! This case is so fascinating and I remember it well as my mother  used to live near to whf. I personally do not believe that sheila is responsible for the killings,for various reasons.I do not believe either that JB carried out the killings either,but that is not to say that I do not think that he was involved.There just simply seems to me that there is no hard evidence that puts JB at the scene of the crime and without evidence I do not feel that someone can be convicted.Forgive me if I am wrong,but any physical evidence provided in court have now been ruled out as to be what Scott Lomax descibes in his book as "red herrings", and I dont feel items such as the silencer should have been allowed to have been used as evidence anyway,since it was not discovered by the police and bagged up immediately under the correct procedure.Everybody knows that it was found by the relatives at a later date.It was tampered with,probably contaminated,and the courts can accept this as evidence?As for the prosecution witnesses,well pffft......a girlfriend that was willing to stand by him regardless of what he had supposedly done........until he dumped her that is,and as for the relatives,immediatly after the tradegy,instead of grieving and supporting each other,they were running around like headless chickens trying to pin the blame on JB.On what grounds did they have to suspect him???

[mike tesko]

Is this a different diary to the one already posted on here? Why are there two of them?

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Additional typed notes, made by Robert Woodwis Boutflour...

[mike tesko]

Entry 5, is important, since it describes the silencer being found on 10th August 1985, in a cupboard in the garage at whf. Why is Robert Boutflour describing the silencer being found in the garage, because elsewhere he describes being present at whf when his son found the silencer inside the gun cupboard in the downstairs (Den) Office?

You could not be mistaken, between the "garage" and the "downstairs office", in my view...

[Kaldin]

Entry 5, is important, since it describes the silencer being found on 10th August 1985, in a cupboard in the garage at whf. Why is Robert Boutflour describing the silencer being found in the garage, because elsewhere he describes being present at whf when his son found the silencer inside the gun cupboard in the downstairs (Den) Office?

You could not be mistaken, between the "garage" and the "downstairs office", in my view...

Yes, he wrote in his diary that on 11th August he was there when the silencer was found in the gun cupboard, and that he told David to put the silencer in a plastic bag to take to Peter's house.

I'm beginning to see what you mean about this silencer.

[Kaldin]

Mind you, why does "Down" have a capital D? Perhaps it's not part of the same sentence. There is a lack of full stops in those notes.

It might not actually say that the cupboard was in the garage at all.

[Kaldin]

Stay Vaulty with Ann to White House David finds silencer in cupboard Down in garage - no bolts, unable to sleep

See what I mean? He might just be saying that he was in the garage. Don't know what the bit about bolts means though, and I don't know why some of it is underlined.

[mike tesko]

Entry 5, is important, since it describes the silencer being found on 10th August 1985, in a cupboard in the garage at whf. Why is Robert Boutflour describing the silencer being found in the garage, because elsewhere he describes being present at whf when his son found the silencer inside the gun cupboard in the downstairs (Den) Office?

You could not be mistaken, between the "garage" and the "downstairs office", in my view...

Yes, he wrote in his diary that on 11th August he was there when the silencer was found in the gun cupboard, and that he told David to put the silencer in a plastic bag to take to Peter's house.

I'm beginning to see what you mean about this silencer.

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I am convinced that this silencer which Robert Boutflour says his son David found in a cupboard in the garage, at whf, on 10th August 1985, is silencer "DB/1", a separate silencer than the one marked, SBJ/1, which I believe DS "Stan" Jones, found at the scene on 7th August 1985 ( since he also seized three other exhibits from the scene that date, SBJ/2, SBJ/3 and SBJ/4)...

I am reminded at this point, of information which Ewen Smith (now a CCRC Commissioner)  obtained from a retired police officer from Essex, who met Ewen in London - he told Ewen that DCI "Taff" Jones, kept a silencer on his desk at Witham police station, for a long time, before it was sent to the Lab' to be examined, and that two named police officers could verify this as a fact. Apparently, DCI Jones, used this particular silencer, as a paper weight!!!

If this information was / is true, it means that this silencer could not have been the one bearing the identifying mark of SBJ/1, because it was only a matter of days before that particular silencer (SBJ/1) was sent to the Lab' on (13th August 1985). I think the silencer that was kept on "Taff" Jones, desk, must have been the one found in the garage by David Boutflour, the one that Robert Boutflour talks about in his typed notes, as per 10th August 1985. I think this was the silencer (DB/1) that Peter Eaton could have handed over to DS "Stan" Jones, on the evening of 12th August 1985. What you have got to remember also, is that it was around this time, that DCI Jones, threw the relatives out of the police station, because of their interfering activities, and so it would make sense that any silencer handed into the police at that stage, might be, or would be, kept by DCI "Taff" Jones, on his desk in his office at Witham police station. Some 20 days elapsed since David Boutflour found the silencer in the garage at whf on 10th August 1985, and its submission to the Lab' at Huntingdon on 30th August 1985, or some 18 days elapsed since Peter Eaton handed it over to DS "Stan" Jones, on 12th August 1985. For these reasons, I think if there was a silencer that DCI "Taff" Jones kept on his desk in his office at Witham police station, it must have been, or probably was this silencer (DB/1)...

DCI "Taff" Jones, was under the impression that the relatives were hell-bent on trying to stitch Jeremy up for the murders, and I can see why he might have hung onto the silencer that David Boutflour found in the garage at whf, for those reasons...

Which then leads me on, to why the silencer (DB/1) was submitted to the lab'; on 30th August 1985?

Well, I received some information a while ago, that one of the two police officers named to Ewen Smith by the retired police officer, was none other that PC "Christopher" Whiddon. I was reliably informed that PC Whiddon went along to DCI "Taff" Jones office at Witham police station, and took possession of it from his desk, he went to the force armory where the bloodstained Bamber rifle was being kept in storage, and he checked to see if the silencer (DB/1) fitted onto the guns barrel? When he realized that it did, he arranged for it (DB/1)  to be sent to the Lab' at Huntingdon, on 30th August 1985...

When PC Whiddon took "possession of the silencer" (DB/1) from DCI "Taff" Jones desk, at Witham police station, a photograph was taken showing PC Whiddon, in possession of the silencer (DB/1) and the bloodstained rifle, and him screwing that silencer, onto the end of the guns barrel, at a time when that silencer (DB/1) did not have any exhibit Label attached to it...