ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'

[Jane]

so glossy brocherses now make you guilty of murder now do they.

Guess I'd better hide mine then, nug............before I get accused of something more than extravagance.

[Steve_uk]

Of course it's circumstantial,but all terribly ambiguous as you must know. The glossy brochures contradict Jeremy's intention to buy a cheaper kit car.

[Alias]

I mean, seriously, PLEASE, if you want to argue that Jeremy is guilty, come up with something better than his wardrobe and he reading habits! He didn´t put on a tie for his father, he went to his car to put on a jacket (!), he had glossy brochures on his coffee table, he was a cheeky kid in school.
It is hard to take seriously, Steve_uk, and I don´t think you are doing the "guilty camp" any favours.

[Alias]

Of course it's circumstantial,but all terribly ambiguous as you must know. The glossy brochures contradict Jeremy's intention to buy a cheaper kit car.

This is such an every day thing that it is not even worth talking about. I am not interested in cars; I AM interested in fashion however. So because I have glossy magazines with pictures of high end (verrrry expensive) garments, which I will never stand a chance of buying is an indication that I am about to kill my mother?

[susan]

Hi steve  one of the main symptoms of being in shock is feeling cold well known fact and Jeremy must have been in a terrible state of shock.

[Jane]

Of course it's circumstantial,but all terribly ambiguous as you must know. The glossy brochures contradict Jeremy's intention to buy a cheaper kit car.

I have no understanding of what point you're trying to make. OK, he bought home brochures of what? Masserattis, Aston Martins, Porches? but ends up with a Morgan. What is so wrong? After my mother died, I took a holiday to Jersey's most up market hotel just because. It MAY have been Jeremy's intention to buy a kit car but after his parents died he could afford something better. It's what happens when people inherit, Steve.

[Steve_uk]

But he wasn't a cheeky kid at school. He was tormented for being a bastard in those days and there was no outlet for his frustrations just as in the David Bain case. It was all kept inside until those final few years when he began to swagger,pinch waitresses' bottoms and find pleasure in rebelling by not wearing a tie for his dad on social occasions. He looked back on his life and blamed his parents,and vowed to do away with them.

[Alias]

But he wasn't a cheeky kid at school. He was tormented for being a bastard in those days and there was no outlet for his frustrations just as in the David Bain case. It was all kept inside until those final few years when he began to swagger,pinch waitresses' bottoms and find pleasure in rebelling by not wearing a tie for his dad on social occasions. He looked back on his life and blamed his parents,and vowed to do away with them.

I thought you said he was a relentless tease.

[Jane]

But he wasn't a cheeky kid at school. He was tormented for being a bastard in those days and there was no outlet for his frustrations just as in the David Bain case. It was all kept inside until those final few years when he began to swagger,pinch waitresses' bottoms and find pleasure in rebelling by not wearing a tie for his dad on social occasions. He looked back on his life and blamed his parents,and vowed to do away with them.

Sorry Steve, you're going off at a tangent here. You're not making sense and you've lost me. I know nothing about the David Bain case, but I DO know about adolescent males between the ages of 17 to 70 and believe me, most of them, at some point, swagger and pinch female bottoms. Some grow out of it, some never do and frankly by the time the boy becomes an adult what they choose to wear is no business of their parents, most of whom accept them for who they are.

[nugnug]

david bain was cleared of murder and is now a free man so im not sure argument is here steve.

[Steve_uk]

Sorry Steve, you're going off at a tangent here. You're not making sense and you've lost me. I know nothing about the David Bain case, but I DO know about adolescent males between the ages of 17 to 70 and believe me, most of them, at some point, swagger and pinch female bottoms. Some grow out of it, some never do and frankly by the time the boy becomes an adult what they choose to wear is no business of their parents, most of whom accept them for who they are.

I had some sympathy with Jeremy as a child,bullied on the school bus because of his plummy accent,no real friends at public school where he was packed off then bullied again as he confided in someone that he was adopted. If only he had told his parents of his dreams to own a wine bar,an ambition he could have realized with a tenth of the capital Nevill and June had. Sheila remember had been given the option of running an antique shop in the country by June but turned it down. Whatever was going on inside Jeremy's head it was taken for granted by his parents that he would run the farm,and Nevill would naturally wish Jeremy to look smart when he met the trustees. It's just a small area of rebelliousness which led to an evil plan as ultimately Jeremy realized he had the power to take everything and just walk away

[Steve_uk]

david bain was cleared of murder and is now a free man so im not sure argument is here steve.

Yes he was,but the verdict was a travesty. I don't know where to start,but if you have time you might want to browse this site.http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/

[Steve_uk]

I thought you said he was a relentless tease.

Maybe to his peers yes,and possibly when girls were admitted. But the authority figures were not to be crossed.

[Jane]

I had some sympathy with Jeremy as a child,bullied on the school bus because of his plummy accent,no real friends at public school where he was packed off then bullied again as he confided in someone that he was adopted. If only he had told his parents of his dreams to own a wine bar,an ambition he could have realized with a tenth of the capital Nevill and June had. Sheila remember had been given the option of running an antique shop in the country by June but turned it down. Whatever was going on inside Jeremy's head it was taken for granted by his parents that he would run the farm,and Nevill would naturally wish Jeremy to look smart when he met the trustees. It's just a small area of rebelliousness which led to an evil plan as ultimately Jeremy realized he had the power to take everything and just walk away

Steve, much as I would like to believe there was a time when you had some sympathy with Jeremy, I have great difficulty in believing it. Jeremy comes from that background which I feel you have little time for. Certainly you seem not to appreciate the benefits od public/independent school education. It also occurs to me that when you joined you said you had little knowledge of the case, yet it appears that you trained with Julie and although you may never have been as close as you would have liked, it's possible that you knew her, so it occurs to me that although you may have had little interest initially in the case, once you saw that she was involved it would have sparked a greater interest, as it would with us all. It's for this reason that I believe your dislike of Jeremy to be quite personal, certainly not objective, and I find no trace of true compassion for him on your part, either Christian or human.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, much as I would like to believe there was a time when you had some sympathy with Jeremy, I have great difficulty in believing it. Jeremy comes from that background which I feel you have little time for. Certainly you seem not to appreciate the benefits od public/independent school education. It also occurs to me that when you joined you said you had little knowledge of the case, yet it appears that you trained with Julie and although you may never have been as close as you would have liked, it's possible that you knew her, so it occurs to me that although you may have had little interest initially in the case, once you saw that she was involved it would have sparked a greater interest, as it would with us all. It's for this reason that I believe your dislike of Jeremy to be quite personal, certainly not objective, and I find no trace of true compassion for him on your part, either Christian or human.

There's no jealousy or resentment on my part as I had a good grammar school education whilst Jeremy had the best education money could buy and had failed at 16. I do have compassion however which is why I have condemned the physical attacks on his person and feel that the country as a whole should move to the Norwegian approach of dealing with lifers where Jeremy would feel far more at ease.