ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'

[Caroline R]

Lookout, I THINK we may be singing from the same page but I still can't help feeling that claiming ones "rights" works better in isolation rather than in conflict with another persons.

Hi April, do you believe that a murderer should forfeit their human rights when they take someone's life?

[lookout]

lookout/april  really glad you two have got that sorted thought I was going to be called on as referee

Never,Susan. Because we're pretty well on the same wave-length.Well very similar anyway.

[Jane]

Hi April, do you believe that a murderer should forfeit their human rights when they take someone's life?

Not ignoring the question, Caroline. Just wrote you a lengthy response and a server error gobbled it!!!

I'll try to precis. I think murder has to be clarified, ie, is it the same as manslaughter. Are those claiming human rights actively seeking redemption for previous actions. How can we award human rights to those who find pleasurable the act of killing? For Brady it was an existential experience and probably for Huntley, the animall who killed Tia and April. had they lived, Shipman and West, killing was just a way of ridding them selves of that which they had enjoyed and discarded and may even do the same again if they were still free. Do they deserve human rights?

[Caroline R]

Not ignoring the question, Caroline. Just wrote you a lengthy response and a server error gobbled it!!!

I'll try to precis. I think murder has to be clarified, ie, is it the same as manslaughter. Are those claiming human rights actively seeking redemption for previous actions. How can we award human rights to those who find pleasurable the act of killing? For Brady it was an existential experience and probably for Huntley, the animall who killed Tia and April. had they lived, Shipman and West, killing was just a way of ridding them selves of that which they had enjoyed and discarded and may even do the same again if they were still free. Do they deserve human rights?

Yes, I believe they do because to deny their human right turns the whole legal process to one of 'revenge'. There are a whole host of criminals who simply make your skin crawl but what would you take away from them to make society feel better? Human rights dictates that they are fed and watered, that they have shelter and be protected from injury. Would you take one or more of those away? Or would you support taking away the ultimate human right - their life? 

[Jane]

Yes, I believe they do because to deny their human right turns the whole legal process to one of 'revenge'. There are a whole host of criminals who simply make your skin crawl but what would you take away from them to make society feel better? Human rights dictates that they are fed and watered, that they have shelter and be protected from injury. Would you take one or more of those away? Or would you support taking away the ultimate human right - their life?

Caroline, I went into much more detail in the "gobbled" post and I said that they should be cared for within the prison system. I was in no way advocating that they should be walled up and fed on bread and water aaaaaaand although what those I mentioned previously did to others makes me sick, and at times when I feel very strongly I think they should have been executed, such an action would make us as barbaric as them.

[Caroline R]

Caroline, I went into much more detail in the "gobbled" post and I said that they should be cared for within the prison system. I was in no way advocating that they should be walled up and fed on bread and water aaaaaaand although what those I mentioned previously did to others makes me sick, and at times when I feel very strongly I think they should have been executed, such an action would make us as barbaric as them.

So, you do believe in human rights but I think maybe it sticks in your throat when such individuals claim protest that their rights have been compromised and I can understand that!!

[Jane]

So, you do believe in human rights but I think maybe it sticks in your throat when such individuals claim or protest that their rights have been compromised and I can understand that!!

Perzackerly, Caroline :D :D :D

[Caroline R]

Perzackerly, Caroline :D :D :D

Got ya!! 

[maggie]

Not ignoring the question, Caroline. Just wrote you a lengthy response and a server error gobbled it!!!

Why is it always the long carefully thought out posts that disappear like magic and make you cry??

[Jane]

Why is it always the long carefully thought out posts that disappear like magic and make you cry??

Absolutely Maggie. The first time it comes straight from the heart. The second time it comes from a memory that doesn't work quite as spontaneously

[maggie]

Absolutely Maggie. The first time it comes straight from the heart. The second time it comes from a memory that doesn't work quite as spontaneously

I know oh I know April   

[Lugg]

If I had no doubt about Jeremy's guilt I personally would drop him like a hot brick immediately. Murderers who have no conscience or regrets about their crimes, like Ian Brady I have no time for and believe they deserve everything they get. If I was sure that Jeremy was guilty then I would not spare another thought for him. But there is just that doubt that just won't go away in my head. Several doubts actually. Even those who knew him apart from the close family are divided on this. I'm afraid I'm not of the "my big bwuver Jeremy" clan by people who never knew him. I think those kinds of people need to see a psychiatrist personally.

[Caroline R]

If I had no doubt about Jeremy's guilt I personally would drop him like a hot brick immediately. Murderers who have no conscience or regrets about their crimes, like Ian Brady I have no time for and believe they deserve everything they get. If I was sure that Jeremy was guilty then I would not spare another thought for him. But there is just that doubt that just won't go away in my head. Several doubts actually. Even those who knew him apart from the close family are divided on this. I'm afraid I'm not of the "my big bwuver Jeremy" clan by people who never knew him. I think those kinds of people need to see a psychiatrist personally.

I think most people feel like that - no one would knowingly support the killer of 5 people?

[maggie]

I think most people feel like that - no one would knowingly support the killer of 5 people?

I do agree but there's much wrong with this case and the more I read the more I believe he's innocent.  Xxxxx

[Caroline R]

I do agree but there's much wrong with this case and the more I read the more I believe he's innocent.  Xxxxx

I agree completely Maggie, but if had any doubts, I wouldn't be supporting the campaign. I used to think he was guilty, he was one of those faces that popped up from time to time with the title of 'Evil Killer' or 'Monster' before his name. I did an internet search and found out that he was protesting his innocence and I actually laughed thinking 'yeah, they all say that'. Anyway, I stared reading about the case and the more I looked for answers, I only discovered more questions. It's the silencer evidence that just doesn't ring true to me and Julie Mugford was coached IMO (perhaps even confronted with being an accessory), why else did she have so may interviews with SJ and why the need for the deception about the visit to the bank?, Too much ambiguous evidence such as the telephone logs and the position of the bodies on discovery, have been put down to error. Yes, one or two errors would be quite feasible but there are too many with weak explanations!!