Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985

[killingeve]

Was Sheila braver than I or had she just not thought through the ramifications of such a meeting which is a potential beginning ,rather than the end, of the story. I was not prepared to risk the positives of what 10 years of therapy had given me, and I knew, without a shadow of doubt, that if I became emotionally involved with another rejection/exploitation, it would all be stripped away and I'd probably have ended up in as big an emotional mess as Sheila. I CANNOT get my head around what seems like Dr F's casually dismissive attitude to her reunion with her biological mother.

Well for me the desire to know was greater than the risk of the unknown/rejection.  The strange thing for me is that I can't understand how adoptees are often only interested in meeting their birth mothers and not their birth fathers.  For me I was equally interested in meeting both. 

Yes I agree Dr F's attitude is odd especially when he refers to the parting as possibly painful.  This leads me to the conclusion that he is very much aware of 'attachment' any yet chose not to let the defence/jury know about June's mental illness circa '59 and its likely negative impact on SC.

[maggie]

Well for me the desire to know was greater than the risk of the unknown/rejection.  The strange thing for me is that I can't understand how adoptees are often only interested in meeting their birth mothers and not their birth fathers.  For me I was equally interested in meeting both. 

Yes I agree Dr F's attitude is odd especially when he refers to the parting as possibly painful.  This leads me to the conclusion that he is very much aware of 'attachment' any yet chose not to let the defence/jury know about June's mental illness circa '59 and its likely negative impact on SC.

It's true NN both of mune had the chance to meet their dad's but neither wanted to.

[killingeve]

It's true NN both of mune had the chance to meet their dad's but neither wanted to.

I think perhaps I must be a little odd 

[Jane]

.............  I think it's necessary to be a bully to be able to use your daughter like that, imo

And there's more than one way of doing that, Maggie. I find heartbreaking to stories I've been told by several elderly ladies, spinstres, no family, no friends, a weekly visit to church their only outing. It seems that their mothers "enjoyed" poor health, nothing specific, none could tell me exactly what had been wrong with their mothers, but it seems that eventually all stopped socializing because their mothers became ill just before they went out. One lady actually got as far as becoming engaged but "It was no good, dear. Mother would become so distressed when I got dressed up to go and meet him. I couldn't just go and leave her, could I? In the end, he called it off. I expect it was for the best." Her mother lived till her late 80s, her father was in his 90s by which time it was impossible for this poor woman to make a life for herself, she'd been conditioned not to. No physical abuse was involved in any of these stories and to my knowledge, no angry words or raised voices. The mothers were all nice, respectable, church going women but their hands inside the velvet gloves were pure steel and it seems to me that their selfish hearts were hard and cold as ice.

[maggie]

And there's more than one way of doing that, Maggie. I find heartbreaking to stories I've been told by several elderly ladies, spinstres, no family, no friends, a weekly visit to church their only outing. It seems that their mothers "enjoyed" poor health, nothing specific, none could tell me exactly what had been wrong with their mothers, but it seems that eventually all stopped socializing because their mothers became ill just before they went out. One lady actually got as far as becoming engaged but "It was no good, dear. Mother would become so distressed when I got dressed up to go and meet him. I couldn't just go and leave her, could I? In the end, he called it off. I expect it was for the best." Her mother lived till her late 80s, her father was in his 90s by which time it was impossible for this poor woman to make a life for herself, she'd been conditioned not to. No physical abuse was involved in any of these stories and to my knowledge, no angry words or raised voices. The mothers were all nice, respectable, church going women but their hands inside the velvet gloves were pure steel and it seems to me that their selfish hearts were hard and cold as ice.

Very true April

[Jane]

I think perhaps I must be a little odd 

No more odd than I, NaNu. Given the availibility of either I would have chosen my father because I discovered that I have much in common with his family. Possibly too, there may be underlying issues with my birth mother leaving me :D

[killingeve]

No more odd than I, NaNu. Given the availibility of either I would have chosen my father because I discovered that I have much in common with his family. Possibly too, there may be underlying issues with my birth mother leaving me :D

Oh...perhaps I'm not so strange after all - that's reassuring 

It's a pity you didn't get to meet with your birth father. 

[susan]

Hello N/N you odd I don't think so

[Steve_uk]

Hi NN

A bit of pattern building here ie replying to your own posts 

Where NB refers to the shooting season coming up and the farm being a dangerous place it could well be that NB was mindful of accidents based on the fact that he was involved in a shooting accident whereby his late father-in-law, Leslie Speakman, was blinded in one eye.  Apparently NB fired a shot which richocheted off a tree and hit LS in the eye blinding him.

It's time for someone on this site to upload Barbara's second statement to Police which to my recollection makes clear that her premonitions concerning ill-will to her boss were directed at Jeremy and not Sheila,as the youtube video you posted yesterday also hints at.

[Steve_uk]

Elsewhere, it has been reported that at one time, Ralph allegedly said, " I had better keep my eye on those two", but to whom could he have been referring, surely not Sheila and Jeremy? Why would he be worried if these comments were linked to what he said to Barbara wilson, regarding the shooting season coming up soon, if Sheila did not know how to handle, load, and fire a gun?

Seems to me, Ralph must have been referring to two people who were experienced at firing guns, and that he was aware that a threat of some kind had been made against his life...

"If he buys that 12 bore shotgun we'll all have to look out.."

[Steve_uk]

As a result of the five deaths in the shooting incident at whf, and in the grand scheme of things, who actually turned out to be the financial beneficiaries in this case:-

Anthony Pargeter / the Eatons, and the Boutflours (all key prossecution witnesses)...

But Jeremy was confident he would inherit. He had worked out all his life that he was due to inherit money,but on the photograph of 1977 it's clear to me from his body language that he knew and accepted that Sheila would be an equal beneficiary. Only after the illnesses of his mother and Sheila respectively did his attitude begin to change.

[lookout]

It's time for someone on this site to upload Barbara's second statement to Police which to my recollection makes clear that her premonitions concerning ill-will to her boss were directed at Jeremy and not Sheila,as the youtube video you posted yesterday also hints at.

So far as I can gather Steve,,Nevilles' worries were nothing to do with the immediate family,it would seem. Or,,on the other hand,if it did,it would be Sheila and her" unsavoury friends",who she had befriended latterly before the tragedy. Don't forget that someone had to supply her cocaine.Better ask Julie,as she wasn't averse to a" line or two."
Neville aimed his last remark at Sheila by saying " you bring your children up to the best of your ability----------------------" In other words,,like most parents with a wayward child,they think they've failed them but it's not always the fault of the parent.

[Steve_uk]

Is this the one you mean?

Something had unhinged Jeremy Bamber’s brain from the time of this photograph in Summer 1977 to the mindset for murder in Autumn 1984. Possible causes are the disillusionment with two of the family members,his mother and sister and it is indicative that the only person Jeremy ever expressed any regrets killing was Nevill,about whom he uttered: “I do miss the old man occasionally”.

In my opinion there is still much to be discovered on the workings of the human brain:how for example the Commandant of Auschwitz concentration camp Rudolph Hoess could execute the inhumane duties asked of him by day,setting in train operations responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands,yet calmly return to the environment of the home of an evening and play with his son and daughter as if he had just spent another day at the office shufflling papers. It appears that some people are just programmed to be able to shut out the most heinous of actions however cruel or depraved they may be,whilst others flinch the merest thought of the simplest transgression. It is in this context that I place the slaying of Daniel and Nicholas Caffell in the early hours of 7 August 1985.

[Jane]

But Jeremy was confident he would inherit. He had worked out all his life that he was due to inherit money,but on the photograph of 1977 it's clear to me from his body language that he knew and accepted that Sheila would be an equal beneficiary. Only after the illnesses of his mother and Sheila respectively did his attitude begin to change.

He wouldn't have needed to work anything out Steve. I have no doubt that he's been told, as had I, that he would inherit. As for reading his body language from that 1977 photo, I think you're reading what you want to see. Chronologically he may have been 16 but still looks to be very much a child.

[killingeve]

Something had unhinged Jeremy Bamber’s brain from the time of this photograph in Summer 1977 to the mindset for murder in Autumn 1984. Possible causes are the disillusionment with two of the family members,his mother and sister and it is indicative that the only person Jeremy ever expressed any regrets killing was Nevill,about whom he uttered: “I do miss the old man occasionally”.

In my opinion there is still much to be discovered on the workings of the human brain:how for example the Commandant of Auschwitz concentration camp Rudolph Hoess could execute the inhumane duties asked of him by day,setting in train operations responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands,yet calmly return to the environment of the home of an evening and play with his son and daughter as if he had just spent another day at the office shovelling papers. It appears that some people are just programmed to be able to shut out the most heinous of actions however cruel or depraved they may be,whilst others flinch the merest thought of the simplest transgression. It is in this context that I place the slaying of Daniel and Nicholas Caffell in the early hours of 7 August 1985.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment