Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985

[Steve_uk]

You're right Alias. That's the kind of frenzy shown by someone who is scared of the person that they're shooting. What might Sheila be scared of? She was known to have said that she thought the twins wanted to rape her. She may have wanted to prevent her mother from asking God to punish her. Maybe she thought the father she worshiped would never forgive what she's done. What would Jeremy have been scared of? Other than Steve's opinion that each person left alive represented loss of his inheritance, NOTHING.

Sheila was never a proactive person,she was always a follower,never a leader. Clare Powell gives us an insight into the lives of the Maida Vale set who could turn heads as they entered a restaurant but in truth were desperately sad people. When a person behaves one way in life and is alleged to have acted in another way after death alarm bells should start to ring.

[Alias]

As I explained in my introductory piece the first load ammunition was likely to have been distributed thus: 7 to June to ensure she remained confined to her bed,one to Nevill to stun and similarly one each to the twins which might well have been enough to kill. Jeremy then frogmarched Nevill downstairs shooting him in the hallway leading into the kitchen leaving stains on the wallpaper,finished Nevill off as he made his last resistance grabbing for the gun,then returned upstairs pumped with adrenalin which is when the frenzy of shots to the twins took place,then one shot symbolically more than anything to June between the eyes to repay her for perceived past misdeeds,then venturing into Sheila's room.

This is pure speculation and still does not explain the overkill. If Jeremy had planned this for a year, he would have made a realistic calculation of how many bullets were needed for each, and he would have been careful not to use too many, because he knew he would have to reload.

[Steve_uk]

This is pure speculation and still does not explain the overkill. If Jeremy had planned this for a year, he would have made a realistic calculation of how many bullets were needed for each, and he would have been careful not to use too many, because he knew he would have to reload.

But sometimes adrenaline gets the better of you when you're faced with the execution of your crime. June didn't need 7 bullets to finish her off but she got them anyway.

[Alias]

But sometimes adrenaline gets the better of you when you're faced with the execution of your crime. June didn't need 7 bullets to finish her off but she got them anyway.

Then you cannot talk about Jeremy as this cold psychopath anymore.

[maggie]

But all bullets were placed,as if by an experienced shooter,not Sheila who wouldn't know what she was doing with a rifle and would far rather paint her nails. The workings of the gun has been gone into on other threads,but I had thought it more likely two hands were used to steady the gun to keep all shots on target.

Hi Steve, I know Sheila liked to paint her nails and worry about how she looked etc. but this was possibly because she was insecure rather than vain. 
Neither was Sheila so stupid all she was capable of was painting her nails.  Such a statement does contradict AE and your own statement that Sheila couldn't put beans on toast as nail painting does require a very steady hand.   
I am sure Sheila was extremely capable when she wanted to be and had seen guns loaded and used all her life as well as possibly using them herself.  If a child could use the anchutz rifle with one hand then I'm sure Sheila could as well but it's true she may have used both hands.

[Jane]

You're right Alias. That's the kind of frenzy shown by someone who is scared of the person that they're shooting. What might Sheila be scared of? She was known to have said that she thought the twins wanted to rape her. She may have wanted to prevent her mother from asking God to punish her. Maybe she thought the father she worshiped would never forgive what she's done. What would Jeremy have been scared of? Other than Steve's opinion that each person left alive represented loss of his inheritance, NOTHING.

Sheila was never a proactive person,she was always a follower,never a leader. Clare Powell gives us an insight into the lives of the Maida Vale set who could turn heads as they entered a restaurant but in truth were desperately sad people. When a person behaves one way in life and is alleged to have acted in another way after death alarm bells should start to ring.

I'm really not certain what your response has to do with the post it answers. There are no arguments from me regarding CP's insightful view of that particulat set, but I imagine that the Sheila who was staying at WHF was very different from the Sheila who lunched with girlfriends in Maida Vale. I have heard the expression "He/she acted quite out of character" too many times surrounding tragic deaths to take on board what you continue to say about Sheila. Do you use this mantra to explain why it was impossible, IYO, for her to have committed these crimes OR do you use it to prevent yourself from accepting that it may just be possible that she could have.

[Caroline R]

She didn't want Jeremy to go to jail as she had been in love with him and still part of her was. She probably realized afterwards she was facing at least a sociopath if not a psychopath when Jeremy told her at Blazer's restaurant Blackheath:"I don't feel anything for them..maybe there is something wrong with me.."

Like I said, the ONLY reason she began to drop hints that Jeremy was responsible was because her jealousy reached a peak and she wanted to hurt him. If she couldn't have him, she was going to make sure no one else did. Who is to say whether she wanted to take it all back but she would have risked everything and still wouldn't have had Jeremy. I guess she only wanted him to go to jail when she realised she wasn't going to be Mrs Jeremy Bamber.

[Steve_uk]

I'm really not certain what your response has to do with the post it answers. There are no arguments from me regarding CP's insightful view of that particulat set, but I imagine that the Sheila who was staying at WHF was very different from the Sheila who lunched with girlfriends in Maida Vale. I have heard the expression "He/she acted quite out of character" too many times surrounding tragic deaths to take on board what you continue to say about Sheila. Do you use this mantra to explain why it was impossible, IYO, for her to have committed these crimes OR do you use it to prevent yourself from accepting that it may just be possible that she could have.

I don't think Sheila moved very far away from her axis wherever she was. Okay she dabbled in drugs but that was about it,and never in front of the children. Remembering lookout's controversial post several days ago I didn't really object apart from the promiscuity remark. There's really no evidence of it after so much muckraking.

[Steve_uk]

Like I said, the ONLY reason she began to drop hints that Jeremy was responsible was because her jealousy reached a peak and she wanted to hurt him. If she couldn't have him, she was going to make sure no one else did. Who is to say whether she wanted to take it all back but she would have risked everything and still wouldn't have had Jeremy. I guess she only wanted him to go to jail when she realised she wasn't going to be Mrs Jeremy Bamber.

Well we've been through this a hundred times on different threads. I think Julie took the role of the ersatz mother and thought she could influence her protege Jeremy but finally realized that Jeremy wasn't the man she fell in love with.

[Alias]

Well we've been through this a hundred times on different threads. I think Julie took the role of the ersatz mother and thought she could influence her protege Jeremy but finally realized that Jeremy wasn't the man she fell in love with.

Awww, poor Julie.

[mike tesko]

Mugford did not go to the police voluntarily, her pal phoned the piolice up and took Mugford along with her - when they both got to the police station, her pal was interviewed under caution and during that interview her pal gave Mugfords so called confession statement,in the third person...

[Caroline R]

Well we've been through this a hundred times on different threads. I think Julie took the role of the ersatz mother and thought she could influence her protege Jeremy but finally realized that Jeremy wasn't the man she fell in love with.

She was besotted and when she realised it wasn't reciprocated, something snapped and she just wanted to hurt him and if she could make sure he would never be happy with anyone else - all the better!!

[Steve_uk]

Mugford did not go to the police voluntarily, her pal phoned the piolice up and took Mugford along with her - when they both got to the police station, her pal was interviewed under caution and during that interview her pal gave Mugfords so called confession statement,in the third person...

That's rather nitpicking:Julie was reluctant to go to the Police because of the criminal matters hanging over her head and wondering whether it would affect her career as a teacher. Compared to the offences which are the subject of this thread they were trivial.

[Steve_uk]

She was besotted and when she realised it wasn't reciprocated, something snapped and she just wanted to hurt him and if she could make sure he would never be happy with anyone else - all the better!!

At that one moment perhaps but it doesn't really tally with Mike's post that Julie didn't go to the Police of her own accord.

[Daniel_day]

Daniel...since you now appear to have the case sewn up,are not only convinced of Bamber's guilt but believe him to be a vile animal who is where he should be (in prison) and should never be released,can I ask then what is your purpose of being on this forum?

Tyler I'd have thought that would have been obvious. I believe Bamber to be guilty and therefore would - like anyone else who believes the same thing - to challenge the evidence and arguments of those that think otherwise. Just like you have done; copiously.