Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985

[Steve_uk]

You ask for evidence from others but never provide any yourself. June stated that it was Sheila she was worried about NOT Jeremy and had he just blacked her eye, I think she might have caused for concern!!!!

June was of the generation that you made your bed and you lay on it. She would never have divulged any misdemeanours by her heir and realized through Nevill and his experiences on the bench that society had changed and she too had to adapt,however painful.

[Jane]

June was of the generation that you made your bed and you lay on it. She would never have divulged any misdemeanours by her heir and realized through Nevill and his experiences on the bench that society had changed and she too had to adapt,however painful.

Yet was prepared to speak with her sister about her daughter's behaviour.

[Steve_uk]

Maggie,,a stark reminder of Eddie Gilfoyles' late wife,who I attended to in the last week/s of her pregnancy.A lovely looking woman,,beautifully dressed and healthy to boot. A week later,,she had hanged herself. No indication whatsoever and looking forward to the birth of their first child. It was tragic.
Eddie was imprisoned for 18 years her " murder ". His case was full of holes.!

This was the man who had his wife writing suicide notes as part of a course he was studying for which there was no justification in the syllabus. I'll have to check the figures for suicides of women at the end of their pregnancy but I would guess the rates are extremely low.

[Caroline R]

But other than a few soundbites taken out of context, the words of a man who admitted to detesting his nephew and the words of a jilted, thieving, gold digging woman who went on to prove she was willing to to anything to get her hands on money, there is NOTHING to say that he was planning anything.

Well said April but let us not forget the ambitious SJ who may have genuinely believed Jeremy to be guilty but who would stop at nothing in order to secure a conviction!!

[Jane]

This was the man who had his wife writing suicide notes as part of a course he was studying for which there was no justification in the syllabus. I'll have to check the figures for suicides of women at the end of their pregnancy but I would guess the rates are extremely low.

Yesterday was the funeral of a mentally ill mother who was eight and a half months pregnant with her forth child, a daughter. She had killed her other three children and then thrown herself from a multistorey carpark.

[Caroline R]

June was of the generation that you made your bed and you lay on it. She would never have divulged any misdemeanours by her heir and realized through Nevill and his experiences on the bench that society had changed and she too had to adapt,however painful.

Well, there is no evidence that suggests Jeremy blacked his mother's eye - NONE!! By the same token of your argument, perhaps Sheila lashed out at her mother or perhaps it was simply an accident - we shall never know. We do know however, that the relatives knew very little of Sheila's illness, Colin was shocked at how little they knew and he was also 'terrified' to leave the twins with Sheila at WHF. So much so that he was reduced to tears and on hearing the news of the deaths he said 'she's finally done it'

[maggie]

Maggie,,a stark reminder of Eddie Gilfoyles' late wife,who I attended to in the last week/s of her pregnancy.A lovely looking woman,,beautifully dressed and healthy to boot. A week later,,she had hanged herself. No indication whatsoever and looking forward to the birth of their first child. It was tragic.
Eddie was imprisoned for 18 years her " murder ". His case was full of holes.!

Yes indeed lookout. Eddie Gilfoyle was in a similar situation to Jeremy as much as denial that a pregnant happy wife can kill herself and her baby....to say a schizophrenic has too much to live for when any psychiatrist would know that a psychotic man or woman would see their life in a very different light. There seems to be a refusal to accept the true connatations of this difficult mental illness. Just because very many sufferers are never more than a danger to themselves others become much much more dangerous. In the old mental hospitals the locked wards were for violent schizophrenics.....people who's illness had progreesed further into violence.  Sheila was very ill however much some like to deny this, it suited Dr Ferguson to make light of her illness at the trial to protect himself and others.

[Steve_uk]

Some countries' judicial systems take in the wishes of the relatives during sentencing of the defendant. Colin's views are expressed here:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-took-my-little-boys-647185

[lookout]

June was of the generation that you made your bed and you lay on it. She would never have divulged any misdemeanours by her heir and realized through Nevill and his experiences on the bench that society had changed and she too had to adapt,however painful.

My mother was like a " June ",Steve,,,with a Quaker background,,but didn't follow it,except that I was made to attend Sunday school every Sunday,at the local congregational church.
Suffice to say,,I'm alright ( I think  ) and so is my brother,even though he got more attention than I did as a child,,but what the heck,,it didn't mean a thing to me really.
Sad to say,,that it was only on my mothers' death bed that she realised that she'd gone terribly wrong at times.
Her own background was atrocious,,which one would have thought might have changed her outlook on life,,but it didn't. Her ideas of rearing were akin to something from Victorian times,,and depending what kind of a character you are/were,,then to rebel like Sheila did,would have come as no surprise.

[Steve_uk]

My mother was like a " June ",Steve,,,with a Quaker background,,but didn't follow it,except that I was made to attend Sunday school every Sunday,at the local congregational church.
Suffice to say,,I'm alright ( I think  ) and so is my brother,even though he got more attention than I did as a child,,but what the heck,,it didn't mean a thing to me really.
Sad to say,,that it was only on my mothers' death bed that she realised that she'd gone terribly wrong at times.
Her own background was atrocious,,which one would have thought might have changed her outlook on life,,but it didn't. Her ideas of rearing were akin to something from Victorian times,,and depending what kind of a character you are/were,,then to rebel like Sheila did,would have come as no surprise.

I always thought Sheila's behaviour was in predictable limits,even during her psychoses which is textbook schizophrenia,if mild. She had such limited horizons and was a gullible,easily-led girl which is why Jeremy reckoned upon being able to lead her to her death.

[Steve_uk]

Well, there is no evidence that suggests Jeremy blacked his mother's eye - NONE!! By the same token of your argument, perhaps Sheila lashed out at her mother or perhaps it was simply an accident - we shall never know. We do know however, that the relatives knew very little of Sheila's illness, Colin was shocked at how little they knew and he was also 'terrified' to leave the twins with Sheila at WHF. So much so that he was reduced to tears and on hearing the news of the deaths he said 'she's finally done it'

I think that comment was being told she had killed herself,which as we know is one symptom which can bring the self-destruct button to schizophrenics,but was not stated as meaning the five deaths taken as a whole.

[Caroline R]

Some countries' judicial systems take in the wishes of the relatives during sentencing of the defendant. Colin's views are expressed here:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-bamber-took-my-little-boys-647185

I know what his views are now but I also know what he believed before Jeremy was arrested. If you are unable to see why it was easier for him to believe it was Jeremy in place of Sheila then you know little about psychology. He had no suspicions about Jeremy until after he was arrested, but Jeremy's  arrest freed Colin from his own guilt - it would have been a relief because now he had a target to project is anger at!!

[Jane]

I always thought Sheila's behaviour was in predictable limits,even during her psychoses which is textbook schizophrenia,if mild. She had such limited horizons and was a gullible,easily-led girl which is why Jeremy reckoned upon being able to lead her to her death.

2A gullible and easily led girl" she may have been but she was also a girl given to shows of aggression for whatever reason.

[mike tesko]

I suppose, that is why, once the nature of the investigation altered from SC/688/85 into SC/786/85, DCI 'Terry' Gibbons was extracted from the role he played at the scene, when Sheila who was very much still alive, had been found in the kitchen upon entry by the raid team...

How could Jeremy or anybody lead Sheila to her death in the bedroom, if the raid team found her upon entry to the kitchen?

Why can't Gibbons speak for himself, about what he did at the scene, what he saw, what he was told, who told him, who he told, and so on and so forth...

[Caroline R]

I always thought Sheila's behaviour was in predictable limits,even during her psychoses which is textbook schizophrenia,if mild. She had such limited horizons and was a gullible,easily-led girl which is why Jeremy reckoned upon being able to lead her to her death.

Schizophrenics are not predictable.