Main Bedroom

[Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)]

Most people speculate on this forum that Ralph was shot first in the kitchen,then the main bedroom,and finally the kitchen,where he then died.

Do they? I don't.

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Most people speculate on this forum that Ralph was shot first in the kitchen,then the main bedroom,and finally the kitchen,where he then died.

Do they? Well that can't have happened. There were 3/4 shots in the kitchen.  He had four head wounds which would have incapacitated him, if not killed him straightaway. He couldn't have gone back up the bedroom after that.

That's based in the assumption of the order of the shots. The general theory being the body shots upstairs, headshots in the kitchen.

However, in principle I agree....


Virtually all the evidence points to him being shot in the vacinity of the bedroom, PLUS possibly on the stairs, then finally in the kitchen.
It 'seems' as though he managed to get from upstairs to downstairs in an injured (shot) state, and make some sort of attempt to fight with the killer - how much of a 'fight' is highly debatable, an overturned table and a couple of chairs a 'huge fight' does not make.

From trauma to his face, it also seems he was hit or banged against a straight hard surface (speculated to have been the butt of a gun, but not proven to be so). Of his wounds, the most likely to have killed him were those to his head (sounds obvious, but doesn't prove those were the last shots, or that he wasn't dead before they were inflicted) - just 'probable' scenario is the headshots were necessary to 'finish him off'.

[Kaldin]

Most people speculate on this forum that Ralph was shot first in the kitchen,then the main bedroom,and finally the kitchen,where he then died.

Do they? Well that can't have happened. There were 3/4 shots in the kitchen.  He had four head wounds which would have incapacitated him, if not killed him straightaway. He couldn't have gone back up the bedroom after that.

That's based in the assumption of the order of the shots. The general theory being the body shots upstairs, headshots in the kitchen.

However, in principle I agree....


Virtually all the evidence points to him being shot in the vacinity of the bedroom, PLUS possibly on the stairs, then finally in the kitchen.
It 'seems' as though he managed to get from upstairs to downstairs in an injured (shot) state, and make some sort of attempt to fight with the killer - how much of a 'fight' is highly debatable, an overturned table and a couple of chairs a 'huge fight' does not make.

From trauma to his face, it also seems he was hit or banged against a straight hard surface (speculated to have been the butt of a gun, but not proven to be so). Of his wounds, the most likely to have killed him were those to his head (sounds obvious, but doesn't prove those were the last shots, or that he wasn't dead before they were inflicted) - just 'probable' scenario is the headshots were necessary to 'finish him off'.

Well look - he had four shots to the head, and there were allegedly four shots in the bedroom. It makes sense that he didn't receive the head shots in the bedroom otherwise he couldn't have gone to the kitchen, right? He might have been shot once in the head in the bedroom but the pathologist was of the opinion that the head shots were inflicted at the same time.

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Most people speculate on this forum that Ralph was shot first in the kitchen,then the main bedroom,and finally the kitchen,where he then died.

Do they? Well that can't have happened. There were 3/4 shots in the kitchen.  He had four head wounds which would have incapacitated him, if not killed him straightaway. He couldn't have gone back up the bedroom after that.

That's based in the assumption of the order of the shots. The general theory being the body shots upstairs, headshots in the kitchen.

However, in principle I agree....


Virtually all the evidence points to him being shot in the vacinity of the bedroom, PLUS possibly on the stairs, then finally in the kitchen.
It 'seems' as though he managed to get from upstairs to downstairs in an injured (shot) state, and make some sort of attempt to fight with the killer - how much of a 'fight' is highly debatable, an overturned table and a couple of chairs a 'huge fight' does not make.

From trauma to his face, it also seems he was hit or banged against a straight hard surface (speculated to have been the butt of a gun, but not proven to be so). Of his wounds, the most likely to have killed him were those to his head (sounds obvious, but doesn't prove those were the last shots, or that he wasn't dead before they were inflicted) - just 'probable' scenario is the headshots were necessary to 'finish him off'.

Well look - he had four shots to the head, and there were allegedly four shots in the bedroom. It makes sense that he didn't receive the head shots in the bedroom otherwise he couldn't have gone to the kitchen, right? He might have been shot once in the head in the bedroom but the pathologist was of the opinion that the head shots were inflicted at the same time.

I agree, I do!
Although I think it could have been 3 in the room, 1 coming down the stairs and 4 in the Kitchen (there was some speculation about a cartridge on the stairs).

[Kaldin]

Most people speculate on this forum that Ralph was shot first in the kitchen,then the main bedroom,and finally the kitchen,where he then died.

Do they? Well that can't have happened. There were 3/4 shots in the kitchen.  He had four head wounds which would have incapacitated him, if not killed him straightaway. He couldn't have gone back up the bedroom after that.

That's based in the assumption of the order of the shots. The general theory being the body shots upstairs, headshots in the kitchen.

However, in principle I agree....


Virtually all the evidence points to him being shot in the vacinity of the bedroom, PLUS possibly on the stairs, then finally in the kitchen.
It 'seems' as though he managed to get from upstairs to downstairs in an injured (shot) state, and make some sort of attempt to fight with the killer - how much of a 'fight' is highly debatable, an overturned table and a couple of chairs a 'huge fight' does not make.

From trauma to his face, it also seems he was hit or banged against a straight hard surface (speculated to have been the butt of a gun, but not proven to be so). Of his wounds, the most likely to have killed him were those to his head (sounds obvious, but doesn't prove those were the last shots, or that he wasn't dead before they were inflicted) - just 'probable' scenario is the headshots were necessary to 'finish him off'.

Well look - he had four shots to the head, and there were allegedly four shots in the bedroom. It makes sense that he didn't receive the head shots in the bedroom otherwise he couldn't have gone to the kitchen, right? He might have been shot once in the head in the bedroom but the pathologist was of the opinion that the head shots were inflicted at the same time.

I agree, I do!
Although I think it could have been 3 in the room, 1 coming down the stairs and 4 in the Kitchen (there was some speculation about a cartridge on the stairs).

Yes, that cartridge on the stairs is puzzling, but there weren't four bullets in the kitchen remember - there were only three, so if anything, it would have been four shots in the bedroom, one on the stairs, and three in the kitchen.

I don't really buy this theory that the cartridge on the stairs got stuck on someone's shoe and then left on the stairs. On the other hand, if that's where a shot happened, one would expect it to be to Nevill's back and he wasn't shot from behind at any point.

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Why the back?

I'd always thought of him shot upstairs 'x' times, and possibly once coming down the stairs i.e. walking from the top, downwards, facing the killer in the kitchen...

to my mind - the killer must be worried at this point - so... here's my theory.

THE KILLER HAD ONLY ONE BULLET at that point, and he shot it. I think the killer would have wanted to stop Nevill at any cost at that point, so why didn't he? cos he needed to reload. Hence the struggle in the kitchen

OR

Nevill miraculously staggered, near death, unable to see almost unconscious - bumped into stuff, knocked it over, fell and died.

[Kaldin]

Why the back?

I'd always thought of him shot upstairs 'x' times, and possibly once coming down the stairs i.e. walking from the top, downwards, facing the killer in the kitchen...

to my mind - the killer must be worried at this point - so... here's my theory.

THE KILLER HAD ONLY ONE BULLET at that point, and he shot it. I think the killer would have wanted to stop Nevill at any cost at that point, so why didn't he? cos he needed to reload. Hence the struggle in the kitchen

OR

Nevill miraculously staggered, near death, unable to see almost unconscious - bumped into stuff, knocked it over, fell and died.

It's possible. Nine shots in the bedroom at first, so that would leave one bullet. The killer goes off downstairs and Nevill follows. The killer turns and shoots Nevill once more on the stairs. If that happened, Nevill must have had one shot to the head before he got to the kitchen.

It's not clear where exactly the case was found. I think the stairs are not in a straight line - they turn 180 degrees half way down?

[Hartley]

The main stairs go straight up then turn left onto a quarter landing, then you can turn right up a couple of steps onto the main landing (towards twins room etc) or from the quarter landing you can turn left up three or four steps which leads to master bedroom, guest room and a small cot room between the two.

[Reader]

Very little of the speculation about Nevill accounts for the mysterious burn marks on his back.

[lebaleb]

What do the DRH numbers in the diagram refer to? Were the cartridges numbered or are they the exhibit numbers or what??

[Kaldin]

What do the DRH numbers in the diagram refer to? Were the cartridges numbered or are they the exhibit numbers or what??

I believe DRH refers to the initials of the police officer who found them - DC Hammersley. There's some confusion about that though as Mike says that DC Hammersley was not at the farm that day.

[mike tesko]

What do the DRH numbers in the diagram refer to? Were the cartridges numbered or are they the exhibit numbers or what??

I believe DRH refers to the initials of the police officer who found them - DC Hammersley. There's some confusion about that though as Mike says that DC Hammersley was not at the farm that day.

----------------

Correct, he was disciplined for alleging he was on duty that date, when he was not...

[Reader]

Can you post a copy of a document (or documents) to confirm that Dc Hammersley was not on duty on that day, and that he was disciplined in connection with that?

[mb1]

I posted previously about the bullets/order etc and within a week it was removed from the site, so not sure if I should repeat what I said, but here goes...

If it wasn't Sheila...

The scenario works if the boys are first and second, re-load,
drag Sheila from the main bed (yes on Nevill's side) shoot her once,
June is lying on her front, shots to her in the bed (match injuries) but she remains conscious
either Sheila or June or both make a noise
Nevill is in the upstairs office or another bedroom, alerted and comes along the landing
Nevill is shot on landing at least once - cartridge by architraving outside main bedroom door and blood-   
         spattered carpet outside Sheila's bedroom door
Struggle with Nevill who is shot again ? times
Nevill escapes downstairs - to phone? to other guns? - and shot at over the bannisters
Killer pursues to kitchen - Nevill shot again?
Chamber empty.
Nevill beaten with gun.
Reload. Kill Nevill
Back upstairs
Kill June and Sheila.

The empty chamber doesn't matter. The killer could have emptied it.

I apologise if the above appears insensitive, but the actual 'killings' are what we are all skirting around.

 

[Newbury1]

I posted previously about the bullets/order etc and within a week it was removed from the site, so not sure if I should repeat what I said, but here goes...

If it wasn't Sheila...

The scenario works if the boys are first and second, re-load,
drag Sheila from the main bed (yes on Nevill's side) shoot her once,
June is lying on her front, shots to her in the bed (match injuries) but she remains conscious
either Sheila or June or both make a noise
Nevill is in the upstairs office or another bedroom, alerted and comes along the landing
Nevill is shot on landing at least once - cartridge by architraving outside main bedroom door and blood-   
         spattered carpet outside Sheila's bedroom door
Struggle with Nevill who is shot again ? times
Nevill escapes downstairs - to phone? to other guns? - and shot at over the bannisters
Killer pursues to kitchen - Nevill shot again?
Chamber empty.
Nevill beaten with gun.
Reload. Kill Nevill
Back upstairs
Kill June and Sheila.

The empty chamber doesn't matter. The killer could have emptied it.

I apologise if the above appears insensitive, but the actual 'killings' are what we are all skirting around.

 

I can buy it!