Silencer, paint sample evidence in police possession, when bodies released...

[mike tesko]

Silencer, paint sample evidence in police possession, when bodies released...

Jeremys letter:-

[mike tesko]

It doesn't add up - police had possession of a sound moderator by evening of 12th August 1985, which is taken to lab' on following day (13th August 1985) inside which is found human blood, and by the following day (14th August 1985) Ann Eaton shows police the scratch marks on underside of aga mantle, and Cook takes paint sample, RWC/1, at same time, yet Coroner authorises the release of the bodies for disposal, including Sheila's body that same day. Surely if the evidence was / is true, there was ample reason for the Coroner not to release the bodies until further enquiries had been made? Yet, Essex police appear to have been in a hurry to get rid of the bodies, so that no independant examination could be carried out at a later date, on any of the bodies...

All very dodgy to me...

[Patti]

I think that is a valid point actually.   

[mike tesko]

Lets also not forget that PI "Bob" Miller was shown the sound moderator by DS "Stan" Jones on morning of 13th August 1985, he told Jones to hand it to DI Cook so that it could be taken to the lab to be examined that same day, yet on th mislead the coronerid Millere following day (14th August 1985) PI Miller attended the opening of the inquest, and told the coroner that police were satisfied that Sheila had shot and killed the others, and then taken her own life by way of a solitary shot under the chin...

Why did Miller deliberately mislead the coroner, if he knew about the find of the silencer, with blood and paint on it?

[tyler]

Good post Mike. A case of 4 murders and a suicide is still classed as "suspicious" circumstances,and due to this the release of the bodies only a week after their deaths does seem rather too quick.

[killingeve]

It doesn't add up - police had possession of a sound moderator by evening of 12th August 1985, which is taken to lab' on following day (13th August 1985) inside which is found human blood, and by the following day (14th August 1985) Ann Eaton shows police the scratch marks on underside of aga mantle, and Cook takes paint sample, RWC/1, at same time, yet Coroner authorises the release of the bodies for disposal, including Sheila's body that same day. Surely if the evidence was / is true, there was ample reason for the Coroner not to release the bodies until further enquiries had been made? Yet, Essex police appear to have been in a hurry to get rid of the bodies, so that no independant examination could be carried out at a later date, on any of the bodies...

All very dodgy to me...

Also I think it is very rare for backspatter to occur without accompanying skin tissue which I believe was absent!?

As per the evidence from the weapons expert the only definite contact wound was from one of the twins and yet there was no trace of his blood/tissue in the silencer?

Why couldn't the blood sample found in the silencer produce a PGM reading?

Why does the CoA doc state that the blood samples taken from the staircase at WHF match NB's and those of the twins when in fact this contradicts the four readings?

[Patti]

Also I think it is very rare for backspatter to occur without accompanying skin tissue which I believe was absent!?

As per the evidence from the weapons expert the only definite contact wound was from one of the twins and yet there was no trace of his blood/tissue in the silencer?

Why couldn't the blood sample found in the silencer produce a PGM reading?

Why does the CoA doc state that the blood samples taken from the staircase at WHF match NB's and those of the twins when in fact this contradicts the four readings?

That's a good point, because there were more that one contact wound and this is what Webster tried to  explain in court.  There were like you say a contact wound to one of the twins and one to June.  There is a document on here somewhere which confirms that.  So what we have then is only back spatter supposedly from Sheila according to the prosecution. So it begs the question, why did the silencer not have one of the twins ABO or June's ABO in the moderator...why only that of Shelia's.  I'm rambling..sorry! 

[mike tesko]

That's a good point, because there were more that one contact wound and this is what Webster tried to  explain in court.  There were like you say a contact wound to one of the twins and one to June.  There is a document on here somewhere which confirms that.  So what we have then is only back spatter supposedly from Sheila according to the prosecution. So it begs the question, why did the silencer not have one of the twins ABO or June's ABO in the moderator...why only that of Shelia's.  I'm rambling..sorry! 

Hi Patti, no your not rambling, there should have been backspatter from the twins, from June, and from Sheila, yet the blood expert testified and said the blood from the flake was unique and exclusive to Sheila - now com'mon, who does Hayward think he is trying to fool? His evidence and testimony was clearly designed to help get Jeremy convicted, to me he was / is, a scumbag...

[killingeve]

Hi Patti, no your not rambling, there should have been backspatter from the twins, from June, and from Sheila, yet the blood expert testified and said the blood from the flake was unique and exclusive to Sheila - now com'mon, who does Hayward think he is trying to fool? His evidence and testimony was clearly designed to help get Jeremy convicted, to me he was / is, a scumbag...

Mike do you think staff at FSS were actually aware of who found the silencer and when and how? 

[killingeve]

That's a good point, because there were more that one contact wound and this is what Webster tried to  explain in court.  There were like you say a contact wound to one of the twins and one to June.  There is a document on here somewhere which confirms that.  So what we have then is only back spatter supposedly from Sheila according to the prosecution. So it begs the question, why did the silencer not have one of the twins ABO or June's ABO in the moderator...why only that of Shelia's.  I'm rambling..sorry! 

Patti many of the reports are contradictory but it appears only one of the twins had a definite contact wound.  Some of the others were near contact.  I understand that back spatter can occur with a near contact shot ie less than 1mm or 2mm away.  Back spatter itself is rare.  It doesn't mean that it will always occur with a contact shot.  My understanding is that when it does occur it will include skin tissue and as we know there was no skin tissue just blood and a grey hair that got lost 

Blood from the victims was able to produce 5 readings.  The only victims who shared all five readings were the twins.  But as you will see from CoA doc it refers to NB and the twins sharing the same blood groups 

57.   Five carpet samples taken from the main bedroom were examined and found to bear numerous spots of dripped blood. These were tested and found to match the blood groupings of June Bamber. Wallpaper from the hallway to the left-hand side of the kitchen door was found, on examination, to be stained with human blood consistent with the blood grouping shared by Nevill Bamber and the twin boys. Since the boys seem to have been shot in their beds, it is a clear inference that this was Mr. Bamber's blood.

[Patti]

Hi NN/Mike

This is from one of Nicko's post and how correct he is:

"It's interesting  to me that this Mark Webster indicated (in 1986) something requiring experiments that could possibly prove either a silencer was not fitted, or backsplatter into a silencer does not occur, and no one has done anything about it."

I will find the Webster document he gives a fantastic argument about back spatter in the sound moderator.   

Here is one of the documents on this thread posted by Mike....but I am looking for the other one. Where is Bridget when you need her! 

[killingeve]

Hi Patti, no your not rambling, there should have been backspatter from the twins, from June, and from Sheila, yet the blood expert testified and said the blood from the flake was unique and exclusive to Sheila - now com'mon, who does Hayward think he is trying to fool? His evidence and testimony was clearly designed to help get Jeremy convicted, to me he was / is, a scumbag...

Mike, Bob Miller also refers to Sheila's blood being in the silencer and possibly June and Nevill's blood.  Imo he clearly thinks that the blood can be linked exclusively to individuals.

Please listen at 18.30 in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OlvzCVrmc

There's a real breakdown in communication about what the blood test readings represented with their limitations.

[Patti]

This is it...hope it works:

[killingeve]

This is it...hope it works:

Thanks Patti.  Not seen this before.