Margaret Thatcher 1925-2013

[maggie]

He should have gone to gaol for that Maggie. Not bailed out by the British government. He even looks like a tosser.

Yes, he should Lugg but he left the other guy to carry the can. Speaks volumes imo.

[maggie]

He should have gone to gaol for that Maggie. Not bailed out by the British government. He even looks like a tosser.

Have looked up how he actually did get it. It was inherited from his father. Denis was awarded a hereditary baronetcy in early  90's when Maggie became a Baroness which Mark the Arms Dealer automatically inherited on his fathers death. Makes you proud to be British doesn't it?

[lookout]

Strange how my late fathers' relatives had staunch Labour backgrounds. Peter Cadogan and Michael Foot. In fact,,I think Peter was thrown out of the Labour party,I'm not sure.
Both Peter and Michael joined another uncle of mine on the Aldermaston marches,,which they religiously attended every Easter,,because I remember that. There was also a guy whose surname was Miliband, who took part in the marches.
The backgrounds are so interesting,,,and I now know where I get " fight poverty ",,and the mention of Gandhi from.
I remember seeing these characters in the past,,but forgot who they were,,and also hearing heated arguments in the front room when they all got together.
 

[maggie]

Wow!! Lookout thats so i teresting. Yes, Ed And David Milliband's father, Ralph Milliband was a Sociologist and Marxist. He was a refugee who was  born in  Belgium and fled Hitler. How fascinating.....you must tell me more

[susan]

Morning Mags

what does teresting mean  

[susan]

Guess I will face Maggie's wrath now

[lookout]

Wow!! Lookout thats so i teresting. Yes, Ed And David Milliband's father, forgotten his first name was one of the left. He was a refugee wbo fled Hitler. How fascinating.....you must tell me more

Hi Maggie,,it is very interesting indeed. I wondered if there was any relation with the Miliband. I saw the guy many years ago when my " communist " uncle lived in Sheil road,Liverpool. It would be the late 40's I would think.
This uncle was somehow connected to the then Hall shipping line,,and had two sisters living in East Berlin at the time,,as he used to tell me about " Check-Point Charlie " which I didn't understand about until later.I used to think it was a childs' story.
However,,I'd learned that this uncle marched at Jarrow and before her untimely death,,met Ellen Wilkinson the then Labour MP. I know he went to her funeral. Then there was Tolpuddle mentioned where he met up with Michael foot.
I did have loads of uncles' letters,,but don't know whatever became of them.
This uncle once threatened my father with the newspapers,,because dad hid Jews during the war,,who were dotted around Liverpool,which was badly bombed. I know there were connections to Burtonwood air base in Warrington,so whether some were taken there,I don't know,,but dad was paid for " services rendered " and we were well fed,,,so maybe it got up uncles' nose because him and aunty lived very frugally.
I don't think uncle missed an Aldermaston  march all the years it went for,until it was disbanded in the early 60's. Then aunty and uncle took up rambling.
Dads' mum,my granny,had two sisters,,one Jill,who became Michael Foots' wife,,,and Joyce,,who was Peter Cadogans' wife. So a very political background.
Mum was a different character from them all,,as she couldn't stand any of them so didn't involve herself at all. She was also anti-royal and had no time for them either,or any pomp and ceremony.
Maybe because she'd had such a hard life in her younger years,I don't know,,but she refused point blank to mix in the circles of " toffs ",,and so it was left to dad to do any entertaining.
Perhaps mum could see things that nobody else saw.I'll never know,,but I do know her asking the " guests " if they'd ever had to scrub steps at 10 years of age after her mother died of hard work. So she was naturally very bitter towards all the politicians. A bit like that woman who tackled Brown that time.That always puts me in mind of my mum,,outspoken and unafraid.
What a household,eh.?
Somewhere in Bratislava,,I have a " cousin ". This uncle and aunty had adopted a girl from " behind the Iron Curtain " as it was then,,one who was taken out of poverty,,but wasn't allowed to enter this country,,and so aunty and uncle,,in between meetings and marches,etc,,used to visit her as well as uncles' sisters. I wouldn't know where she is now.

I think Peter had Trotskyist views at one point,,and was another outspoken character who at times got into hot water. Although he wasn't poor himself,,he did adopt ideals of Gandhi  and formed a political party in his name.
I'm going to have to look for a book with all this history in it. It's my " ancestry ".

[ngb1066]

Strange how my late fathers' relatives had staunch Labour backgrounds. Peter Cadogan and Michael Foot. In fact,,I think Peter was thrown out of the Labour party,I'm not sure.
Both Peter and Michael joined another uncle of mine on the Aldermaston marches,,which they religiously attended every Easter,,because I remember that. There was also a guy whose surname was Miliband, who took part in the marches.
The backgrounds are so interesting,,,and I now know where I get " fight poverty ",,and the mention of Gandhi from.
I remember seeing these characters in the past,,but forgot who they were,,and also hearing heated arguments in the front room when they all got together.

I met Peter Cadogan several times.  My parents were active in CND and worked with Peter Cadogan in his Committee of 100 days.  He was a member of the Communist Party until 1956.  He then flirted briefly with trotskyism before joining the Labour Party.  For a time he ran the South Place Ethical Society, based at Conway Hall in London.

 

[ngb1066]

I think people have the wrong opinion of Arthur Scargill?  He was set up and led into the actions he took. First the Thatcher government brought in Ian mc gregor who had just devastated the steel industry by half, then On 6 March 1984, the National Coal Board announced that the agreement reached after the 1974 strike had become obsolete, and that in order to rationalise government subsidisation of industry they intended to close 20 coal mines, with a loss of 20,000 jobs, and many communities in the north of England as well as Scotland[7] and Wales would lose their primary source of employment. This agreement had been in place to safe guard jobs and without any conciltation was taken away.  Arthur scargill who by the way was not a member of the communist party he was a proud socialist and to hear him talk and his passion was electricfying he did lead from the front and i can remember he and his wife getting arressted.  No one wanted a strike least of all me and my family and the thousands of miners this was not about money or uperhand this was jobs people wanting to work nothing else how can anyone call anyone for wanting to work and for your children to have a future?  The tories and the tory press prepared well in advance for this Thatcher waged war on the union using tactics reserved for severe internal security threats. Government undercover agents infiltrated the union and wreaked havoc on public perceptions. At one juncture, a union official who later was alleged to be a Thatcher agent approached Libyan officials with great public fanfare asking for donations. That incident did much to turn public opinion against the miners' cause during the strike and it was this sort of tactics and the refusal of the num to go for a ballet that was the start of the downfall.  This i believe was scargills loss not going for a ballet he would have got a majority easy and the union would have been united instead of divided? He was put in place by 70 per cent majority and at his end  To demonstrate their loyalty to him in 1985 they supported controversial changes in national procedures that permitted Scargill to remain president of the N.U.M. for life, this was a man fighting to safe guard the coal industry to fight and protect the jobs for his members their children and their childrens children not someone who wanted to hold the country to ransom?

In fact Arthur Scargill's political experience was gained in the Communist Party - he was a leading member of the Young Communist League in the 1950s.  He left the CP in the early 1960s but remained part of the Broad Left group in Yorkshire NUM, led by the CP.  He was elected to the leadership first in Yorkshire and then nationally, as the agreed candidate of the Broad Left.   A little known fact is that he was only elected as national NUM leader because the right wing leader Joe Gormley remained in post longer than intended.  Gormley was deperate to prevent the Communist Scottish NUM leader Mick McGahey from succeeding him and he stayed until Mick McGahey had just passed the upper age limit for election.  But for that Mick McGahey would have been the Broad Left candidate and would almost certainly have been elected.

You are right about the mistake in relation to a national ballot.  Efforts were made to persuade Arthur Scargill, in particular by the CP and its members in the NUM leadership.  Unfortunately Arthur would not listen and the rest of course is history.   

 

[nugnug]

christ even in death she closeing things.

http://t.co/idHtF8At5N

[maggie]

Hi Maggie,,it is very interesting indeed. I wondered if there was any relation with the Miliband. I saw the guy many years ago when my " communist " uncle lived in Sheil road,Liverpool. It would be the late 40's I would think.
This uncle was somehow connected to the then Hall shipping line,,and had two sisters living in East Berlin at the time,,as he used to tell me about " Check-Point Charlie " which I didn't understand about until later.I used to think it was a childs' story.
However,,I'd learned that this uncle marched at Jarrow and before her untimely death,,met Ellen Wilkinson the then Labour MP. I know he went to her funeral. Then there was Tolpuddle mentioned where he met up with Michael foot.
I did have loads of uncles' letters,,but don't know whatever became of them.
This uncle once threatened my father with the newspapers,,because dad hid Jews during the war,,who were dotted around Liverpool,which was badly bombed. I know there were connections to Burtonwood air base in Warrington,so whether some were taken there,I don't know,,but dad was paid for " services rendered " and we were well fed,,,so maybe it got up uncles' nose because him and aunty lived very frugally.
I don't think uncle missed an Aldermaston  march all the years it went for,until it was disbanded in the early 60's. Then aunty and uncle took up rambling.
Dads' mum,my granny,had two sisters,,one Jill,who became Michael Foots' wife,,,and Joyce,,who was Peter Cadogans' wife. So a very political background.
Mum was a different character from them all,,as she couldn't stand any of them so didn't involve herself at all. She was also anti-royal and had no time for them either,or any pomp and ceremony.
Maybe because she'd had such a hard life in her younger years,I don't know,,but she refused point blank to mix in the circles of " toffs ",,and so it was left to dad to do any entertaining.
Perhaps mum could see things that nobody else saw.I'll never know,,but I do know her asking the " guests " if they'd ever had to scrub steps at 10 years of age after her mother died of hard work. So she was naturally very bitter towards all the politicians. A bit like that woman who tackled Brown that time.That always puts me in mind of my mum,,outspoken and unafraid.
What a household,eh.?
Somewhere in Bratislava,,I have a " cousin ". This uncle and aunty had adopted a girl from " behind the Iron Curtain " as it was then,,one who was taken out of poverty,,but wasn't allowed to enter this country,,and so aunty and uncle,,in between meetings and marches,etc,,used to visit her as well as uncles' sisters. I wouldn't know where she is now.

I think Peter had Trotskyist views at one point,,and was another outspoken character who at times got into hot water. Although he wasn't poor himself,,he did adopt ideals of Gandhi  and formed a political party in his name.
I'm going to have to look for a book with all this history in it. It's my " ancestry ".

Blimey Lookout, all this and the Creer's as well!!  My Mum's family were very socialist, working class.  My Grandfather was an engine driver and drove the Livepool to London express so they had more than most working class families and my Auntie who was 10 years older than my Mum went to university in the late 1920s, she was a member of the left book club and a friend of Jack Jones and maybe your relatives were too.  I still have some of those books which are possibly collectors items now.  Jill Craigie and Michael Foot were good people imo but the Foot's were definitely a privileged family and Tony Benn even more so.  Some people found it difficult to accept the rich were genuine and not just 'playing politics' with the working classes but on the other hand the working classes needed all the help they could get, imo.
It is your ancestry and one to be proud of imo...don't wonder you're a fighter 

[maggie]

I met Peter Cadogan several times.  My parents were active in CND and worked with Peter Cadogan in his Committee of 100 days.  He was a member of the Communist Party until 1956.  He then flirted briefly with trotskyism before joining the Labour Party.  For a time he ran the South Place Ethical Society, based at Conway Hall in London.

 

Wow, ngb how interesting.  I thnk Peter Cadogan managed to get suspended or thrown out of several organisations!! 

[maggie]

In fact Arthur Scargill's political experience was gained in the Communist Party - he was a leading member of the Young Communist League in the 1950s.  He left the CP in the early 1960s but remained part of the Broad Left group in Yorkshire NUM, led by the CP.  He was elected to the leadership first in Yorkshire and then nationally, as the agreed candidate of the Broad Left.   A little known fact is that he was only elected as national NUM leader because the right wing leader Joe Gormley remained in post longer than intended.  Gormley was deperate to prevent the Communist Scottish NUM leader Mick McGahey from succeeding him and he stayed until Mick McGahey had just passed the upper age limit for election.  But for that Mick McGahey would have been the Broad Left candidate and would almost certainly have been elected.

You are right about the mistake in relation to a national ballot.  Efforts were made to persuade Arthur Scargill, in particular by the CP and its members in the NUM leadership.  Unfortunately Arthur would not listen and the rest of course is history.   

 

Yes, it seems that was his fatal mistake, it certainly weakened his argument and played into MacGregor's and the governments hands.

[Roch]

It's a bit strange to witness 'Maggie' commenting on her own thread 

[maggie]

It's a bit strange to witness 'Maggie' commenting on her own thread 

It's a bit unnerving Roch to see RIP MAGGIE.    I used to be Margie, still am to some