Spent bullet cases in the bedroom

[curiousessex]

OK so lets assume the diagram, as posted by Kaldin, is a true and accurate representation of where the cases lay on the morning of the shootings (bar the case on the stairs).

Having viewed the pictures of where Sheila lay and the pattern of bleeding from both the wounds in her neck it appears to me the two shots occurred within a short time of each other (a couple / few seconds). This is because there is a common pattern in the flow of blood which would be influenced by gravity.

Is if a fair interpretation that both wounds occurred within a short period of time?

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I beg to differ about blood running and leaking from both wounds - I think there was blood leaking from only one of the wounds, and that as a result of Sheila's body, and head being repositioned, the upper wound came to rest upon the lower wound, and blood which is shown, or which appears to be running from the lower entry wound, is in fact blood that was running and leaking from the upper wound, before the position of the victims head was adjusted into a different position...

If you look close enough, you can see that there is no vblood running from the lower wound at all, only the upper wound...

Blood from the lower wound, ran in a completely different direction - which you can see if you care to take the time and trouble to notice...

In my opinion...

Mike, if you could post the picture / pictures which best represents this, in your opinion, I will gladly take a look and post my comments.

[mike tesko]

OK so lets assume the diagram, as posted by Kaldin, is a true and accurate representation of where the cases lay on the morning of the shootings (bar the case on the stairs).

Having viewed the pictures of where Sheila lay and the pattern of bleeding from both the wounds in her neck it appears to me the two shots occurred within a short time of each other (a couple / few seconds). This is because there is a common pattern in the flow of blood which would be influenced by gravity.

Is if a fair interpretation that both wounds occurred within a short period of time?

..............................

I beg to differ about blood running and leaking from both wounds - I think there was blood leaking from only one of the wounds, and that as a result of Sheila's body, and head being repositioned, the upper wound came to rest upon the lower wound, and blood which is shown, or which appears to be running from the lower entry wound, is in fact blood that was running and leaking from the upper wound, before the position of the victims head was adjusted into a different position...

If you look close enough, you can see that there is no vblood running from the lower wound at all, only the upper wound...

Blood from the lower wound, ran in a completely different direction - which you can see if you care to take the time and trouble to notice...

In my opinion...

Mike, if you could post the picture / pictures which best represents this, in your opinion, I will gladly take a look and post my comments.

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Please take care to look at the possibility that the victims head was bent forward, and that the upper entry wound rested over the lower entry wound, at a time when there was no blood running or leaking from the lower wound? With the head in that position, blood from the upper wound began to run across the neck, and then once the position of the victim's head was repositioned, blood ran from the upper wound, in the same general direction it had been running, as though it had ran from the lower wound...

Evidence that the head had been tilted forward can be found, by reference to the bloodied finger marks around the upper entry wound, being duplicated ion the surface of the skin around the lower entry wound...

Once the head had been repositioned and blood began to run and flow naturally from the upper wound, it proceeded to run over the top of the bloodied finger-marks adjacent to the upper entry wound, , but not from the lower entry wound, because by that stage, there was no blood at all running from that wound...

If you look closely enough...

You can see that blood from the lower wound, actually ran and flowed in a totally different direction, than blood from the upper wound...

in my opinion...

[mike tesko]

Blood, from only the upper entry wound is shown in this photograph, and if you look closely enough, you can actually see the conflicting direction which blood from the earlier wound had run, before Sheila was shot for the second time in the bedroom...

[Kaldin]

I think that blood from the lower wound certainly did run in a different direction at first. I still think that she was sitting up when the first shot was fired. The blood could not have gone down her nightdress if she had been lying down.

[mike tesko]

I think that blood from the lower wound certainly did run in a different direction at first. I still think that she was sitting up when the first shot was fired. The blood could not have gone down her nightdress if she had been lying down.

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I understand your point, but please try to concentrate on the possibility that the lower wound was not bleeding at the time this photograph was taken - consider for the possibility that the blood which appears to be running from the lower entry wound, is in fact blood which got displaced onto that part of the neck / throat, at a time when Sheila's head was in a totally different position or angle than that shown in the photograph? And, at that time, blood from the upper entry wound (which was inflicted much later than the first one) simply ran at the same general  angle, at which blood commenced to re-run from the upper entry wound, after Sheila's head was repositioned into the one depicted in the photograph?

You can see the trace of the bloodied finger-marks which are situated around the upper entry wound, duplicated around the lower entry wound, which confirms that Sheila's head was in a totally different position, at which point and where, the upper entry wound, overlaid the lower entry wound....

Can you confirm whether or not you see these traits, or if you have a different explanation for this?

[curiousessex]

To both Mike and Kaldin - Which direction do you both think blood flows from the first wound (the lower wound). I can see blood inside the lower wound and cannot beleive that this wound did not bleed. If Sheila committed suicide she must have been still been alive before the second fatal wound (the upper wound).

[mike tesko]

To both Mike and Kaldin - Which direction do you both think blood flows from the first wound (the lower wound). I can see blood inside the lower wound and cannot beleive that this wound did not bleed. If Sheila committed suicide she must have been still been alive before the second fatal wound (the upper wound).

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Blood from lower wound ran in a totally different direction than blood from the upper entry wound, as can be seen by examination of this particular enlarged photograph, blood from the lower wound ran slightly off vertical:-

I will re-post a better picture to illustrate the direction, at which the lower non fatal wound bled...

[Kaldin]

I think that blood from the lower wound certainly did run in a different direction at first. I still think that she was sitting up when the first shot was fired. The blood could not have gone down her nightdress if she had been lying down.

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I understand your point, but please try to concentrate on the possibility that the lower wound was not bleeding at the time this photograph was taken - consider for the possibility that the blood which appears to be running from the lower entry wound, is in fact blood which got displaced onto that part of the neck / throat, at a time when Sheila's head was in a totally different position or angle than that shown in the photograph? And, at that time, blood from the upper entry wound (which was inflicted much later than the first one) simply ran at the same general  angle, at which blood commenced to re-run from the upper entry wound, after Sheila's head was repositioned into the one depicted in the photograph?

You can see the trace of the bloodied finger-marks which are situated around the upper entry wound, duplicated around the lower entry wound, which confirms that Sheila's head was in a totally different position, at which point and where, the upper entry wound, overlaid the lower entry wound....

Can you confirm whether or not you see these traits, or if you have a different explanation for this?

No, I don't really see that. Sorry.

[mike tesko]

I think that blood from the lower wound certainly did run in a different direction at first. I still think that she was sitting up when the first shot was fired. The blood could not have gone down her nightdress if she had been lying down.

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I understand your point, but please try to concentrate on the possibility that the lower wound was not bleeding at the time this photograph was taken - consider for the possibility that the blood which appears to be running from the lower entry wound, is in fact blood which got displaced onto that part of the neck / throat, at a time when Sheila's head was in a totally different position or angle than that shown in the photograph? And, at that time, blood from the upper entry wound (which was inflicted much later than the first one) simply ran at the same general  angle, at which blood commenced to re-run from the upper entry wound, after Sheila's head was repositioned into the one depicted in the photograph?

You can see the trace of the bloodied finger-marks which are situated around the upper entry wound, duplicated around the lower entry wound, which confirms that Sheila's head was in a totally different position, at which point and where, the upper entry wound, overlaid the lower entry wound....

Can you confirm whether or not you see these traits, or if you have a different explanation for this?

No, I don't really see that. Sorry.

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OK, then please answer this point, if you can - how come blood from the lower wound, appears to have run in two entirely different directions, whilst the blood from the upper wound, only appears to have run in one direction? How could one wound have blood that ran in two different directions, whilst the other wound only had blood running on one of those directions, if both wounds were inflicted at around about the same general time?

[andrea]

this may sound like a stupid queston, and i apologise if it has been answered else where.

 but, where did the blood on sheilas lower arm come from?

if she was lying down when she was shot, then it cant be her blood can it?

[mike tesko]

this may sound like a stupid queston, and i apologise if it has been answered else where.

 but, where did the blood on sheilas lower arm come from?

if she was lying down when she was shot, then it cant be her blood can it?

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Blood on her arm got there at the time she struggled with one of the other adult victims...

[curiousessex]

To both Mike and Kaldin - Which direction do you both think blood flows from the first wound (the lower wound). I can see blood inside the lower wound and cannot beleive that this wound did not bleed. If Sheila committed suicide she must have been still been alive before the second fatal wound (the upper wound).

--------------------------

Blood from lower wound ran in a totally different direction than blood from the upper entry wound, as can be seen by examination of this particular enlarged photograph, blood from the lower wound ran slightly off vertical:-

I will re-post a better picture to illustrate the direction, at which the lower non fatal wound bled...

Both wounds have blood flow in the general direction to the right hand side of Sheila's neck. There is no blood flow in the general direction of directly down the body (which would occur if one is in the upright position for a period of time (whether standing or sitting). There is no blood flow to the left hand side of Sheila's neck. So, in my opinion, this, whilst not being a direct point to point exact replication of the two independent blood flows they share similar direction. This, to me, would indicate the wounds were inflicted within a short period of one another (maybe a couple or few seconds).

[Kaldin]

I think that blood from the lower wound certainly did run in a different direction at first. I still think that she was sitting up when the first shot was fired. The blood could not have gone down her nightdress if she had been lying down.

----------------------------

I understand your point, but please try to concentrate on the possibility that the lower wound was not bleeding at the time this photograph was taken - consider for the possibility that the blood which appears to be running from the lower entry wound, is in fact blood which got displaced onto that part of the neck / throat, at a time when Sheila's head was in a totally different position or angle than that shown in the photograph? And, at that time, blood from the upper entry wound (which was inflicted much later than the first one) simply ran at the same general  angle, at which blood commenced to re-run from the upper entry wound, after Sheila's head was repositioned into the one depicted in the photograph?

You can see the trace of the bloodied finger-marks which are situated around the upper entry wound, duplicated around the lower entry wound, which confirms that Sheila's head was in a totally different position, at which point and where, the upper entry wound, overlaid the lower entry wound....

Can you confirm whether or not you see these traits, or if you have a different explanation for this?

No, I don't really see that. Sorry.

----------------------------------------

OK, then please answer this point, if you can - how come blood from the lower wound, appears to have run in two entirely different directions, which the blood ferom thebn upper wound only appears to have run in one direction?

She was sitting up when the first shot happened so the blood ran to the right slightly and down inside and on her nightdress. She fell back or lay down and then she was shot again. The upper wound then bled in one direction and the lower wound also bled in that direction.

It is a bit weird though because the first incident where the lower wound bled is very faint. It's almost as if the blood on her nightdress got there without leaving much trace on her neck.

[Kaldin]

To both Mike and Kaldin - Which direction do you both think blood flows from the first wound (the lower wound). I can see blood inside the lower wound and cannot beleive that this wound did not bleed. If Sheila committed suicide she must have been still been alive before the second fatal wound (the upper wound).

--------------------------

Blood from lower wound ran in a totally different direction than blood from the upper entry wound, as can be seen by examination of this particular enlarged photograph, blood from the lower wound ran slightly off vertical:-

I will re-post a better picture to illustrate the direction, at which the lower non fatal wound bled...

Both wounds have blood flow in the general direction to the right hand side of Sheila's neck. There is no blood flow in the general direction of directly down the body (which would occur if one is in the upright position for a period of time (whether standing or sitting). There is no blood flow to the left hand side of Sheila's neck. So, in my opinion, this, whilst not being a direct point to point exact replication of the two independent blood flows they share similar direction. This, to me, would indicate the wounds were inflicted within a short period of one another (maybe a couple or few seconds).

How did the blood get onto her nightdress though? It would have to go uphill if she was lying down.

[andrea]

this may sound like a stupid queston, and i apologise if it has been answered else where.

 but, where did the blood on sheilas lower arm come from?

if she was lying down when she was shot, then it cant be her blood can it?

----------------------------------

Blood on her arm got there at the time she struggled with one of the other adult victims...

how did the prosecution explain the blood on her lower arm, or was it never questioned?