Author Topic: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?  (Read 28383 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tyler

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2395
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #255 on: January 17, 2015, 01:15:AM »
Agreed,good post Alias. But then you are probably one of the most deepest thinking posters here. I always enjoy reading your thoughts.

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #256 on: January 17, 2015, 01:18:AM »
Agreed,good post Alias. But then you are probably one of the most deepest thinking posters here. I always enjoy reading your thoughts.

Ditto.  :)

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33764
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #257 on: January 17, 2015, 09:31:AM »
There was always a scintilla of doubt as Julie didn't want to face up to the fact that the man she loved was a mass murderer. She clung on to the slim hope that at least he had not pulled the trigger but that somehow Matthew Macdonald might have instigated the whole thing. But the terrifying truth slowly dawned on her and was confirmed at Blazer's restaurant,Blackheath, as Jeremy showed no remorse and told her not to blame herself,but he would have gone ahead with it anyway. Julie wanted their relationship to be as unsullied as it had been before the crimes,but this relationship had metastasised and there was no trust left,just the remnants of what once was as Julie took Jeremy's words that "maybe there is something wrong with me" to heart.

Steve, I concur, absolutely with everything you say. I COULD leave it right there but I guess you know I can't :)

I'm certain that I'm looking at it through FAR less rose tinted glass than are you. I have the impression that you see Julie as experiencing the pure and sweet naivety of first love with Jeremy as her knight in shining armour. We love for diverse reasons, ALL coloured by past experiences and I suspect Julie loved him because he appeared to offer everything she believed necessary for a good life. Top of the list being financial security. COULD be it had ALWAYS been her family's top priority.

I have NO doubts that in the days and weeks following the massacre -during which she witnessed the disintegration of their relationship and MAY have hastened it by trying to cling to it- that she wished things could be magicked back to where they'd been before she found herself caught up in the nightmare that she hadn't walked away from because she'd perhaps rather ENJOYED the frisson of danger that she experienced from being with Jeremy.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33764
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #258 on: January 17, 2015, 10:09:AM »
It strikes me that he speaks to her on equal terms. He puts her freedom up against his incarceration. Between the lines you can tell that he obviously has a problem with that.
I interpret it as: either they planned this together and are both guilty - or Jeremy had nothing to do with the murders, he is innocent, but Julie guilty of setting him up.

I just don´t understand his soft tone if he is innocent; but of course he could have been seething in his little cell trying to convince her to retract her (false) testimony.

I think I am pretty much left with the same feeling as when I read it the first time: they share something - and that is where my uneasy feeling sets in.


TOTALLY agree, Alias. It's almost as if the letter is written in code. That the two of them are enmeshed in something secret. I wonder if his soft tone is about his expectation of her stepping up to the mark and doing, what he considers to be, the right thing for them both.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33764
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #259 on: January 17, 2015, 10:18:AM »
Alias this is one of your best posts and many people would agree that there is something concealed in their relationship,which words possibly cannot express. I think Jeremy resented his parents for keeping him under their thumb,for adopting him then sending him away for eight years,for feeling an utter failure when in effect he was a hardworking young man who just wanted a job with less responsibilities. In Julie he found a confidante who would listen to him unreservedly,who would cook,iron,clean and decorate for him and rarely answer back. He opened up to her in a way he could never do with Suzette or his one night stands. She made him feel better and believe in himself. But I doubt Julie ever egged him on in anything,but was more of a doormat until it was too late,and she realized she was the one who had been badly let down.



Steve, everything you say makes perfect sense. There is something undermining and demoralizing in the discovery that one's only purpose in life is to fulfill someone else's plan without one's OWN hopes and dreams being taken into account or acknowledged. It's entirely possible that, because he was the embodiment of ALL Julie's dreams and MET all her expectations, he didn't feel pressured by her. He may have felt free to be himself for the first time in his life.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48661
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #260 on: January 17, 2015, 11:26:AM »
I can't imagine that Jeremy would have been taken for a ride in this way. Who's going to be daft enough to carry out a " plan ",knowing that a crime like this was going to result in spending the rest of your life in prison. ?
Neither Jeremy nor Julie " knew " this was going to happen and because Jeremy wrote the way he did as opposed to losing his temper,was far from an admission of his guilt. He probably thought that he was going to be left out in the cold altogether with his family gone and the only other person who'd been in his life the longest was Julie,who he thought would have believed that he was telling the truth.

Yes,I don't doubt that they'd BOTH made plans for the future and will have  BOTH spoken of the day when Jeremys' parents were too old to carry on,leaving BOTH Julie and Jeremy to run WHF,while his parents sought an easier and more relaxed life-style,possibly a swap to live at Goldhanger themselves.
But-------------not to end in this way.
 
I'm of the belief that as things unfolded the way they did,that it was purely coincidental that Jeremy had spoken about " killing his family " then sadly it did happen.
 Much the same as a passenger on the ill-fated, second Air Malaysia flight had posted a tweet to his pal to say " this is what I look like in case you don't see me again " ,until the worst happened. Did that poor passenger know what was going to happen so suddenly after the first tragedy ? I think not,or he wouldn't have boarded that flight,or would he ? These things don't happen because you will them to,as it IS a coincidence when you speak of something and it does happen,but it doesn't mean to say that you had anything to do with it.
Exactly the same goes for the murders at WHF. Because Jeremy may,or may not have spoken about such a thing,doesn't make him a murderer,nor is it meant as an auto-suggestive ploy for anyone else to carry them out.

As I've already stated,had Jeremy made such a remark,then the world and his wife would have got to know,beforehand,and a tragedy could have been averted. Particularly RWB having known,everyone in the area would have been aware,especially the police at that stage,as it was a" death threat ". Back then it would have been broadcast a lot more than it is today with threats of death being an everyday occurrence.
IF it had been said by Jeremy,then nobody took any notice which can only mean one thing,that he wasn't capable of carrying out his " threats ",which to my mind doesn't make him culpable.
Of the two of them,it was Sheila who protected Jeremy in their younger years.It was she who sorted the bullies out who mocked Jeremy on their way to school,so she was more than capable in her older years,coupled with problems, and drugs to block out her miserable life, to build up enough adrenaline to fight back,except that she couldn't have done it any other way than with the guns which were kept at the farm.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44120
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #261 on: January 17, 2015, 11:45:AM »
Julie working on the farm with Bamber ?

So that is why she was studying for her second degree.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #262 on: January 17, 2015, 12:31:PM »
I can't imagine that Jeremy would have been taken for a ride in this way. Who's going to be daft enough to carry out a " plan ",knowing that a crime like this was going to result in spending the rest of your life in prison. ?
Neither Jeremy nor Julie " knew " this was going to happen and because Jeremy wrote the way he did as opposed to losing his temper,was far from an admission of his guilt. He probably thought that he was going to be left out in the cold altogether with his family gone and the only other person who'd been in his life the longest was Julie,who he thought would have believed that he was telling the truth.

Yes,I don't doubt that they'd BOTH made plans for the future and will have  BOTH spoken of the day when Jeremys' parents were too old to carry on,leaving BOTH Julie and Jeremy to run WHF,while his parents sought an easier and more relaxed life-style,possibly a swap to live at Goldhanger themselves.
But-------------not to end in this way.
 
I'm of the belief that as things unfolded the way they did,that it was purely coincidental that Jeremy had spoken about " killing his family " then sadly it did happen.
 Much the same as a passenger on the ill-fated, second Air Malaysia flight had posted a tweet to his pal to say " this is what I look like in case you don't see me again " ,until the worst happened. Did that poor passenger know what was going to happen so suddenly after the first tragedy ? I think not,or he wouldn't have boarded that flight,or would he ? These things don't happen because you will them to,as it IS a coincidence when you speak of something and it does happen,but it doesn't mean to say that you had anything to do with it.
Exactly the same goes for the murders at WHF. Because Jeremy may,or may not have spoken about such a thing,doesn't make him a murderer,nor is it meant as an auto-suggestive ploy for anyone else to carry them out.

As I've already stated,had Jeremy made such a remark,then the world and his wife would have got to know,beforehand,and a tragedy could have been averted. Particularly RWB having known,everyone in the area would have been aware,especially the police at that stage,as it was a" death threat ". Back then it would have been broadcast a lot more than it is today with threats of death being an everyday occurrence.
IF it had been said by Jeremy,then nobody took any notice which can only mean one thing,that he wasn't capable of carrying out his " threats ",which to my mind doesn't make him culpable.
Of the two of them,it was Sheila who protected Jeremy in their younger years.It was she who sorted the bullies out who mocked Jeremy on their way to school,so she was more than capable in her older years,coupled with problems, and drugs to block out her miserable life, to build up enough adrenaline to fight back,except that she couldn't have done it any other way than with the guns which were kept at the farm.

If that were true Lookout, no one would be serving life for murder!
Few people have the imagination for reality

Mr. Gee

  • Guest
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #263 on: January 17, 2015, 12:33:PM »
Julie working on the farm with Bamber ?

So that is why she was studying for her second degree.
So did Sheila. Look in the photo section. Not sure about Mugford though?

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48661
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #264 on: January 17, 2015, 12:36:PM »
So did Sheila. Look in the photo section. Not sure about Mugford though?





Purely the business side of things,Mr G, you understand. ;)

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48661
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #265 on: January 17, 2015, 12:48:PM »
Can anyone picture what life would have been like for JM if Jeremy had walked free ?
Taking into consideration that EP already knew about the cheque fraud,accessory to the caravan park break-in and also the drugs ?

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48661
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #266 on: January 17, 2015, 12:52:PM »
When JM received immunity,there was just one other thing that would have added to her list of crimes,and that was " KNOWING THAT THE MURDERS WERE GOING TO TAKE PLACE " !!  Were the jury aware of this ?

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48661
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #267 on: January 17, 2015, 12:54:PM »
 Sorry,but I would never feel sorry for anyone with £25,000 in their back pocket who'd knowingly received it under false pretences !!

Mr. Gee

  • Guest
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #268 on: January 17, 2015, 01:27:PM »
Sorry,but I would never feel sorry for anyone with £25,000 in their back pocket who'd knowingly received it under false pretences !!
Does my bum look big in this £25,000 in my back pocket? ;D
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 03:46:PM by Mr. Gee »

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48661
Re: How would you greet Julie Mugford on her return visit to England?
« Reply #269 on: January 17, 2015, 01:30:PM »
Does my bum look big in this £25,000 in my pack pocket? ;D




 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Yes,indeed.