Re: Adoption Debate

[Jane]

Susan/Maggie, I'm so glad you got it sorted. Clever girls

[susan]

april my dear I'm not clever all I did was go outside and bring in the washing then the two blue Maggie's had become one

[Patti]

april my dear I'm not clever all I did was go outside and bring in the washing then the two blue Maggie's had become one

Blue Magpie's....Is there something in the water up there..

[Jane]

Blue Magpie's....Is there something in the water up there..

Yes Patti, with any luck, single malt 

[Patti]

Yes Patti, with any luck, single malt 

I'll have a double of that April....

[killingeve]

Hello Steve_uk.  Re a reply to your post transferred from another thread:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3990.msg165045.html#msg165045

It is generally accepted that IQ is largely inherited.  Sheila's birth maternal grandfather was professor emeritus of theology @ McGill uni, Montreal.  Her birth maternal uncle read English and Classics @ Oxford and is the founder of England's longest standing independent poetry publisher.  Her birth father was a curate and met her birth mother whilst they were students.  Pretty impressive I would say  .

Sheila, very sadly, was adopted by a TOTALLY unsuitable adoptive mother who became depressed due to her decision to adopt Sheila.  Sheila had multiple primary caregivers during the crucial bonding period and suffered an attachment disorder.

http://www.attachmentexperts.com/whatisattachment.html

As you will see one feature of an attachment disorder is behavioural and academic problems at school.

There is also much evidence to suggest that adoptees are at risk of 'hypervigilance' which would make learning more difficult.  So how would one fare with the added burden of the above?

http://nancyverrier.com/miscelleneous-information/

Kent County Council have put together an info pack for schools/teachers re this:

http://www.clusterweb.org.uk/UserFiles/CW/File/Policy/Childrens_Social_Services/Adoption_C_F/Practice_Tools_and_Checklists/Adoption_Information_for_Teachers_1207.pdf

Another feature of an attachment disorder, as stated above, is low self-esteem and this probably accounts for Sheila's inability to find a job rather than any inherent laziness etc.

Claire Powell's book states:

"Aware of her predicament, Sheila's girlfriends rallied round and tried to help her out.  But it was not easy as she did not have the temperament or the qualifications which would have made her a potentially good employee.  'One of her boyfriends and I tried to get her this receptionist job with British Telecom, but it didn't work out,' said Kirstie.  'She just couldn't make it through that kind of interview."

Many will blame it on Sheila's *mental illness as it suits their narrative.  I beg to difffer and go for attachment disorder and adoption psychology. 

*Mental illness diagnosed by Dr Ferguson who I believe was incompetent and conflicted in his treatment of Sheila.

Just sayin like 

[killingeve]

yes you're right April. There were connections with D'Arcy and the church. Possibly why she went to June and Neville?  Wonder if Sheila was always naturally attracted to religion which became compounded by June's later obsession and her own illness? Although many schizophrenics seem to see devils a d demons and other worldly stuff?

Maggie from what I've read all this misguided religion between June and SC appears to have turned really toxic when June 'caught' SC having sex in a ditch with a farm labourer when she was 17 yoa which resulted in the "Devil's child" accusation.  I wonder if SC was aware of all these birth connections to the church at this stage?  Colin's book implies that SC's contact with her birth mother came about in the last months of her life via letters initially and then the meeting in May '85.  Yet Wilkes' book seems to imply that the letters had gone on over a much longer period - I think his source for this was Barbara Brabick (not sure if I've got the surname right) who was Sheila's soical worker who helped her with the tracing and I believe sorted out the foster day-care for the twins.  The reason I'm interested in this is trying to work out at what point SC might have found out about all these connections to the church and how this may have played out with her mental state. 

[maggie]

Yes I understand your thinking and I am interested too. I would imagine Sheila's natural mother would have told Sheila about her family very early on in their contact as that is the easy part but I havent any idea of when  their initial contact happened, always thought it was shortly before her death but that may be wrong as you say.  There's a possibility she was even told about her background by her social worker before contact. I don't know how the whole thing is dealt with.

[Jane]

Yes I understand your thinking and I am interested too. I would imagine Sheila's natural mother would have told Sheila about her family very early on in their contact as that is the easy part but I havent any idea of when  their initial contact happened, always thought it was shortly before her death but that may be wrong as you say.  There's a possibility she was even told about her background by her social worker before contact. I don't know how the whole thing is dealt with.

[killingeve]

Yes I understand your thinking and I am interested too. I would imagine Sheila's natural mother would have told Sheila about her family very early on in their contact as that is the easy part but I havent any idea of when  their initial contact happened, always thought it was shortly before her death but that may be wrong as you say.  There's a possibility she was even told about her background by her social worker before contact. I don't know how the whole thing is dealt with.

Don't know when the letter contact started but the first face-to-face meeting was def May '85.
As I've previously stated the only thing I new about my background until I went to the adoption agency at 22 yoa was that I was born in Cambridge.  I'm not sure if my adoptive mother volunteered this info or whether it was required for a passport.  Think it may have been the latter.  I was amazed at all the info in my adoption file about backgrounds of parents, grandparents and aunts etc, etc.  But I got the feeling that there were no hard and fast rules and it was all down to the birth mother about how forthcoming she was.  So yes SC may have known a lot from her file before she had any letter or personal contact or on the other hand not much at all    Plus my adoptive mother always maintained the only thing she knew was that I was born in Cambridge and yet the adoption agency said no she would have had all the other info    How forthcoming was June?  I understand JB's birth parents kept in touch for the first 4 years of his life with June and NB via the adoption agency I assume    They then shared this info with JB later on but I understand this info wasn't available for SC 

[maggie]

I always felt it was quite important for wellbeing that adopted kids needed to know as much about where they came from as possible  some children seem to need the info more than others. Wonder if Sheila had known more about her roots if it would have helped? Jeremy seemed to take his adoption in his stride....who knows if that was because of his laid back personality or because he was more aware of who he was?  I do believe By the time Sheila met her birth mum she was far too ill to be able to cope with this without professional support, particulary because of her unstable relationship with June.

[susan]

Hello Maggie

I think Jeremy was so content with his adoptive parents who he considered his parents he was not interersted in his  birth parents at all and proves he was at peace with his situation now I think Sheila was not at peace with herself or June just my take on things I have no hard evidence to prove this.

[maggie]

Hello Maggie

I think Jeremy was so content with his adoptive parents who he considered his parents he was not interersted in his  birth parents at all and proves he was at peace with his situation now I think Sheila was not at peace with herself or June just my take on things I have no hard evidence to prove this.

I know what youre saying susie but I do believe however content an adoptive child may be and all are different, its still better if they know where they come from as it helps them understand their identity  etc.

[susan]

Hello Maggie whilst I know nothing about adoption I know the saying it is a wise child that knows its own Father.  Many children are brought up with a man who they believe to be their Father as indeed the Father believes he is the Father the Mother may know or not know who the child's Father is.  So in some cases some children think they know where they came from but only half know as their rellies on their Father's side are not really related at all.  Hope I am making sense as quite often I don't.  It is my opinion that some children are curious to know why they were given up for adoption others have no desire to know but I don't think it has anything to do with knowing who they are.  You can tell me I am talking rubbish and I will still love you and worship you   What I am trying to say it is all in the mind

[maggie]

Hello Maggie whilst I know nothing about adoption I know the saying it is a wise child that knows its own Father.  Many children are brought up with a man who they believe to be their Father as indeed the Father believes he is the Father the Mother may know or not know who the child's Father is.  So in some cases some children think they know where they came from but only half know as their rellies on their Father's side are not really related at all.  Hope I am making sense as quite often I don't.  It is my opinion that some children are curious to know why they were given up for adoption others have no desire to know but I don't think it has anything to do with knowing who they are.  You can tell me I am talking rubbish and I will still love you and worship you   What I am trying to say it is all in the mind

Well it is all in the mind that's true but I do think all people are interested in where they come from even if they don't bother to meet their natural families and meeting them can be a huge stress.  However, in the end it's better to know you can if you want to than to live with lies and secrets imo.
My chldren enjoyed meeting people who looked and behaved in the same way as they did.  Obviously, my kids don't look like me and I don't look anything like my Mum and Dad did or my sister but her daughter looks quite like me and I am surprised how much I like that although she may prefer she didn't  .