Where is the line between acceptable and inappropriate behaviour?

[Jane]

I have listened with interest to what has been said of Lord Rennard's behaviour. His is an unfortunate name, putting one in mind of Reynard the Fox who was made famous by Masefield.

I have to say, I do not find him particularly attractive to look at, nevertheless he may be quite charming. This should have nothing to do with inappropriate behaviour but I suspect it may do. There will be a huge difference in the same kind of touch from person to person, that is, which person touches and which person is being touched. I would be interest to hear your views.

[killingeve]

I have listened with interest to what has been said of Lord Rennard's behaviour. His is an unfortunate name, putting one in mind of Reynard the Fox who was made famous by Masefield.

I have to say, I do not find him particularly attractive to look at, nevertheless he may be quite charming. This should have nothing to do with inappropriate behaviour but I suspect it may do. There will be a huge difference in the same kind of touch from person to person, that is, which person touches and which person is being touched. I would be interest to hear your views.

Really April you do surprise me  .  Do you suspect then that had the 'touch(es)' have come from say Nick Clegg who might be considered by many to be more pleasing to the eye that the 'touch(es)' may have been perceived differently?  I suspect you may be right.  (NC has to be one of the very few MP's that looks/sounds remotely shaggable  )

I've not read too much about the case but I believe the women involved are/were wannabe MP types? So presumably these women are/were capable of asserting themselves?  Why didn't they just deal with him then and there ie tell him in no uncertain terms that what he was doing was unwelcome/inappropriate.  If they failed to get the appropriate response or felt that due to his position he was able to undermine them in some way then why didn't they take the matter further then?  How were these women going to run the country etc, etc if they were unable to deal effectively with some Billy Bunter like character?   

I suspect the women may have confidence issues ie OMG Billy Bunter thinks I'm fair game/isn't taking me seriously 

What exactly was involved in the touching ie hand on hand or grope of breast etc?  Who are the women involved?

[Jane]

Really April you do surprise me  .  Do you suspect then that had the 'touch(es)' have come from say Nick Clegg who might be considered by many to be more pleasing to the eye that the 'touch(es)' may have been perceived differently?  I suspect you may be right.  (NC has to be one of the very few MP's that looks/sounds remotely shaggable  )

I've not read too much about the case but I believe the women involved are/were wannabe MP types? So presumably these women are/were capable of asserting themselves?  Why didn't they just deal with him then and there ie tell him in no uncertain terms that what he was doing was unwelcome/inappropriate.  If they failed to get the appropriate response or felt that due to his position he was able to undermine them in some way then why didn't they take the matter further then?  How were these women going to run the country etc, etc if they were unable to deal effectively with some Billy Bunter like character?   

I suspect the women may have confidence issues ie OMG Billy Bunter thinks I'm fair game/isn't taking me seriously 

What exactly was involved in the touching ie hand on hand or grope of breast etc?  Who are the women involved?

NaNu, all I was pointing out was agendas. I don't think it's a simple as a hand brushing in the wrong place. I think it's possible that it could have been dealt with "in house" by an appropriately placed knee before it ever reached the public domain, and YES, I think it may well have been different had the offending hand been on the end of another person's arm.

[HMEssex]

Surely, every adult person knows the difference between acceptable and inappropriate behaviour? If not, they must be socially dysfunctional, abusing their power, and/or just plain dirty old men (or women).

These allegations seem to go back quite a few years, and why didn't these women just slap him, knee him somewhere painful, tell him to F*** Off or just shout out "Oi - get your hands off??!"

If true, the fact that he wasn't taken to task before speaks volumes.  Maybe in political realms women, unfortunately, are seen as 'fair game' in such a male-driven area.  Also, someone had to sign 'gagging order' - always a red flag.



 

[lookout]

Then on the other hand,, some women will " put up " with certain types of behaviour just to climb further up the ladder if it means  promotion. It's a recognised thing among those with no morals,but with every intention of treading on someone elses' toes.

[HMEssex]

Then on the other hand,, some women will " put up " with certain types of behaviour just to climb further up the ladder if it means  promotion. It's a recognised thing among those with no morals,but with every intention of treading on someone elses' toes.

Oh God! I hope not!!  They'd never be taken seriously...

Mind you, one person sprang to mind when I read this - E C - bad egg!!   

[killingeve]

Surely, every adult person knows the difference between acceptable and inappropriate behaviour? If not, they must be socially dysfunctional, abusing their power, and/or just plain dirty old men (or women).

These allegations seem to go back quite a few years, and why didn't these women just slap him, knee him somewhere painful, tell him to F*** Off or just shout out "Oi - get your hands off??!"

If true, the fact that he wasn't taken to task before speaks volumes.  Maybe in political realms women, unfortunately, are seen as 'fair game' in such a male-driven area.  Also, someone had to sign 'gagging order' - always a red flag.

Hi HMEssex

I'm not really up on the case but from your post if they complained and their complaints were not treated seriously/appropriately at the time then that's a different matter.   Don't like the sound of the gagging order.

In the late 80's I started work in the financial services industry working alongside Oxbridge and spiv types where just about anything went and I was pretty much the only female but I can honestly say I never experienced any discrimination or sexual harassment.   I felt my male colleagues treated me with respect as I did them.  Sometimes I would socialise with them out of hours eg drinking, golf days, rugby etc but they were fun times and never any problems.  Perhaps men don't find me attractive 

[lookout]

Oh God! I hope not!!  They'd never be taken seriously...

Mind you, one person sprang to mind when I read this - E C - bad egg!!   

HMEssex,,,according to a female politician,,it does go on.

[packagebuilder]

Depends on the circumstances!

brushing passed a lady and accidently touch her, but a apologizing straight away is fine!

But do it multi times etc is harassment/assault!

 

[killingeve]

Depends on the circumstances!

brushing passed a lady and accidently touch her, but a apologizing straight away is fine!

But do it multi times etc is harassment/assault!

You sound a gentleman/diamond geezer Packagebuilder 

[packagebuilder]

You sound a gentleman/diamond geezer Packagebuilder 

Aww thanks!! I am a gent!! I've always given up my sit to a lady when she has no where to sit

[HMEssex]

Hi HMEssex

I'm not really up on the case but from your post if they complained and their complaints were not treated seriously/appropriately at the time then that's a different matter.   Don't like the sound of the gagging order.

In the late 80's I started work in the financial services industry working alongside Oxbridge and spiv types where just about anything went and I was pretty much the only female but I can honestly say I never experienced any discrimination or sexual harassment.   I felt my male colleagues treated me with respect as I did them.  Sometimes I would socialise with them out of hours eg drinking, golf days, rugby etc but they were fun times and never any problems.  Perhaps men don't find me attractive 

NN - not to have any problems with colleagues is a GOOD thing!!   Nothing to do with whether you're attractive or not (I'm sure you are) - they were just normal, decent people, like the majority.

'Abusers' often target who they think are vulnerable etc.

I've had experience of both good and bad - the first time was when I was 15 when this guy groped me.  The next thing we both knew was when my hand just flew up and smacked him round his face!  Reflex action!!  (Must be the Essex Girl in me. 



 

[HMEssex]

HMEssex,,,according to a female politician,,it does go on.

So much for women's lib!

Is this why Cameron doesn't have enough women in his cabinet?  Because they do or they don't?!! 

[HMEssex]

Depends on the circumstances!

brushing passed a lady and accidently touch her, but a apologizing straight away is fine!

But do it multi times etc is harassment/assault!

Well, obviously, package builder!!   

Are you talking about same lady or different ones?  lol!!

[killingeve]

NN - not to have any problems with colleagues is a GOOD thing!!   Nothing to do with whether you're attractive or not (I'm sure you are) - they were just normal, decent people, like the majority.

'Abusers' often target who they think are vulnerable etc.

I've had experience of both good and bad - the first time was when I was 15 when this guy groped me.  The next thing we both knew was when my hand just flew up and smacked him round his face!  Reflex action!!  (Must be the Essex Girl in me. 

Hey what you like girl  ...yer TOPS... that's why you were always on the Filly list