They denied seeing a figure at bedroom window, but forget about female body...

[mike tesko]

At the end of the day, the occupants of CA07 were the ones who relayed messages from the scene at whf, to the control room, between 7;38am and 8;10am, and whatever transpired, they believed two bodies had been found downstairs, and a further three upstairs. They were convinced that the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female had been found by 7;38am, and that one of these two bodies was a murder, the other was a suicide...

By 8:45am, there had been a displacement of Sheila's body from downstairs, to upstairs, from the kitchen to the main bedroom, which altered the logistics of body counts downstairs and upstairs, from a ratio of 2 / 3,  to 1 / 4...

[guest7363]

Jeremy was there did he hear the police with the guns shoot his family. Rubbish same as the phone call, any son would have been at the scene before police arrived, any son would have kicked the door in and investigated before the police arrived. total rubbish. All them hours outside and wild horses would not have stopped me going in.

So jeremy meets the police at pages lane, tells them again what his father has said about sheila going beserk with a gun, tells them about the number of guns in the property and his sister is a nutter? Hears nothing for hours then accuses the police of shooting everyone?The young man reiterated that Nevill, sounding very distressed, had asked him to come over at once because his sister Sheila had gone crazy and got hold of a gun. Sheila (whose married name of Caffell he couldn’t recall), was “a nutter” and recent psychiatric in-patient. As was to be expected, there were a number of guns on the farm, and Sheila was capable of handling them. Nothing like setting the scene?

[Lugg]

Jeremy was there did he hear the police with the guns shoot his family. Rubbish same as the phone call, any son would have been at the scene before police arrived, any son would have kicked the door in and investigated before the police arrived. total rubbish. All them hours outside and wild horses would not have stopped me going in.

Not necessarily? He was told by the police to meet them at the farm. Could be one explanation why he was allegedly driving slowly? He also obviously saw the raid team with the men with guns? Simple explanation really.

[mike tesko]

Bews, Myall and Jeremy, all saw someone who was alive inside the main bedroom, which caused Bews to return to the patrol car parked up in Pages lane, where he passed a situation report about what he had just seen, requesting that the firearms be deployed to the scene, which is what occurred. The fireams team did not just turn out to investigate a trick of light, they attended because what Bews told the control room, warranted dealing with...

It doesn't matter who said what to whom on the telephone, what matters most is that at the time police told Jeremy that all his family had been killed, he automatically presumed police had shot them when they forced thier way into the farmhouse.He had evrry reason to believe that until police actually went into the premises, that everyone was still very much alive. He had been talking to his father on the phone and knew he was alive, and because his father had not said anyone had been shot, why on earth should he think everybody else must be dead? Futhermore,  tge behaviour of the police at the scene conditioned his mind to thonl that spmeone was alive inside the premises, becaise the police were negotiating with them by various means, and Jeremy must have thought that whatever was being spoken about was what was preventing the police from going into the premises...

[mike tesko]

By far the most damning feature of this matter, concerns the fact that the operator patched through the eavesdrop of the kitchen telephone via the 999 emergency system so that those present in  the control room could listen to whatever was happening in the kitchen or close proximity. This link was maintained until just after the occupants of CA07 passes messafes from the scene that two bodies had been fiund in the kitchen,  the bodt of one deas male, and the body of one dead female, a murder, and a suicide...

The facts being reported by the occupants of CA07, regarding what the raid ream found upon entering the oremises at around 7:38am, would be confirmed by a reliance upon the aforenentioned eavesdroo, which would have been automatically recorded because tge operator had patched it into the 999 emergency system...

[mike tesko]

For some reason or another, the eavesdrop link was discontinued after two bodies had been reportedly found upon entry to the kitchen...

[mike tesko]

Essex police are maintaining that although the eavesdrop link activity was automatically recorded on audio tape, this was taped over and not retained, therefore it no longer exists...

Well...

The way I see it, If the contents of that recording tell a totally different story than the one relayed from the scene to the control room by the occupants of CA07, then why would police destroy it, since it would be evidence to support the case for a misunderstanding regarding the body ratios downstairs and up...

On the other hand - if any audio recordings matched the CA07 message contents, all the more reason to get rid of the damning evidence...

[mike tesko]

The stance of all the police officers, and civilian employees who were unfortunate enough to be on duty that morning, had the benefit of the live eavesdrop, and the benefit of receiving the messages from the occupants of CA07...

So, not only was everything being recorded on audio tape, but the details of the radio messages passed from the scene by CA7 was available...

Why would someone in the control room, record the messages told them by the occupants of CA07, if what they were listening to on the eavesdrop was different, and more importantly, if there was such a difference, then why would police destroy the truth on the audio tapes, yet retain the errors as per the logs and messages?

Seems to me it wouldn't have panned out quite like that...

[Caroline R]

Jeremy was there did he hear the police with the guns shoot his family. Rubbish same as the phone call, any son would have been at the scene before police arrived, any son would have kicked the door in and investigated before the police arrived. total rubbish. All them hours outside and wild horses would not have stopped me going in.

There is a BIG difference in what you claim should have happened and what did happen - you have the benefit of hindsight!!

[Jane]

Jeremy was there did he hear the police with the guns shoot his family. Rubbish same as the phone call, any son would have been at the scene before police arrived, any son would have kicked the door in and investigated before the police arrived. total rubbish. All them hours outside and wild horses would not have stopped me going in.

 


Forgive me, but this isn't about what you or anybody else would/may have done. For any of us to know what another person would do, it is necessary for us to BE that person, understand their background and the rules impressed on them during their formative years.

[mike tesko]

The stance of all the police officers, and civilian employees who were unfortunate enough to be on duty that morning, had the benefit of the live eavesdrop, and the benefit of receiving the messages from the occupants of CA07...

So, not only was everything being recorded on audio tape, but the details of the radio messages passed from the scene by CA7 was available...

Why would someone in the control room, record the messages told them by the occupants of CA07, if what they were listening to on the eavesdrop was different, and more importantly, if there was such a difference, then why would police destroy the truth on the audio tapes, yet retain the errors as per the logs and messages?

Seems to me it wouldn't have panned out quite like that...

What could members of the raid team say, to fool the occupants of CA07 into thinking that two bodies had been found upon entry, and that one of those two bodies was a dead male, and the other a dead female? What could possibly have been said by members of the raid team to convince the occupants of CA07, and the control staff, that police were dealing with a murder, and a suicide. Police would be hard pushed to describe Ralph Bambers death as a suicide, by anybodies standards, let alone speak in the terms that his death was a murder, and a suicide...

[guest7363]

 


Forgive me, but this isn't about what you or anybody else would/may have done. For any of us to know what another person would do, it is necessary for us to BE that person, understand their background and the rules impressed on them during their formative years.

Sorry for having an opinion then maybe i should keep these or my thoughts to myself, we could say the same about julie or the rest of the family we just dont know what we would do if we were them? I think if the majority of people were honest they would have dialed 999, not bothered to phone a friend and got around to whf like pronto after hearing this from your dad?The young man reiterated that Nevill, sounding very distressed, had asked him to come over at once because his sister Sheila had gone crazy and got hold of a gun.

[guest7363]

Not necessarily? He was told by the police to meet them at the farm. Could be one explanation why he was allegedly driving slowly? He also obviously saw the raid team with the men with guns? Simple explanation really.

You could be right Lugg? After witnessing Essex firearms team in action and becoming involved in the operation it is frightening but he had set the scene or the scene had been set that sheila was going crazy with a gun?

[Jane]

Sorry for having an opinion then maybe i should keep these or my thoughts to myself, we could say the same about julie or the rest of the family we just dont know what we would do if we were them? I think if the majority of people were honest they would have dialed 999, not bothered to phone a friend and got around to whf like pronto after hearing this from your dad?The young man reiterated that Nevill, sounding very distressed, had asked him to come over at once because his sister Sheila had gone crazy and got hold of a gun.

Ralph, hello. I thought how excellent was your very lengthy piece on your courtroom view of proceedings. Jeremy also talks about how private a man was his father, who didn't like involvement with "outside agencies", didn't like the NHS to the point that he paid for his mentally ill daughter to be treated in a clinic hundreds of miles from her home, when she possibly may have fared better under the NHS. I imagine that Jeremy had been part of a family who dealt with immediate problems, either "in house" or stretching a point, locally.

[lookout]

I don't think Jeremy knew how to deal with anything. This tragedy was thrust upon him,,an inexperienced,wet behind the ears young man whose only passion was going out enjoying himself and with little interest with what was going on within the family.
It sounds about right for any youngster who had broken free from the confines of a restrictive household.