Julie's allegation of a hitman

[Lugg]

I don't reject any of her testimony, I believe that he told her he hired a hitman. It was a lie, but it was his lie not hers. Her evidence was as to the fact that he had voiced what may at the time have been fantasies about killing his family which in the end were fulfilled.

But it is still only her word of course. How do you back that up and why do you choose to believe her although there is absolutely nothing to substantiate her claims as they were all "alledgedly" told her in private. So in effect she could say anything. Also if you choose to believe her testimony that JB told her these things and what he told her about the hitman was a Bamber lie, How do you know how to descriminate what he said was true and what he said was a lie?

[Bridget]

But it is still only her word of course. How do you back that up and why do you choose to believe her although there is absolutely nothing to substantiate her claims as they were all "alledgedly" told her in private. So in effect she could say anything. Also if you choose to believe her testimony that JB told her these things and what he told her about the hitman was a Bamber lie, How do you know how to descriminate what he said was true and what he said was a lie?

It doesn't matter which parts of what he said were true and which were a lie, what counts is the fact that he said it at all. That's all her evidence ever was, evidence as to his feelings towards his family. If her evidence had been presented as evidence of a confession you would be absolutely right, but it wasn't.

With regards backing up her word, of course there is nothing to back up a conversation held in private between two people, but that is why we have juries. They hear the evidence and make judgments on the credibility of the witness, and based on that decide what weight they give that evidence. Unfortunately for JB the jury at his trial appear to have found JM credible despite his attempts to discredit her by bringing up the cheque fraud and caravan park burglary.

[maggie]

Peter Hitchin wants to see a change in the jury service. He remarked on QT last Thursday that they should be picked on their intelligence and not randomly as is at present.

Hi lookout. Peter Hitchin is a man with black and white opinions, I would not like him to be on any jury trying me!!  We do have to be careful as there are many kinds of 'intelligence'. An academic is less likely to have common sense and an awareness of human behaviour than other people who live and work as part of a community.  Think we need to be careful we don't make things worse.

[Patti]

It doesn't matter which parts of what he said were true and which were a lie, what counts is the fact that he said it at all. That's all her evidence ever was, evidence as to his feelings towards his family. If her evidence had been presented as evidence of a confession you would be absolutely right, but it wasn't.

With regards backing up her word, of course there is nothing to back up a conversation held in private between two people, but that is why we have juries. They hear the evidence and make judgments on the credibility of the witness, and based on that decide what weight they give that evidence. Unfortunately for JB the jury at his trial appear to have found JM credible despite his attempts to discredit her by bringing up the cheque fraud and caravan park burglary.

  So telling Julie Tonight's The Night, I'm a good actor and my dad put up a struggle with the hitman is all evidence about his feelings for his family

[maggie]

So telling Julie Tonight's The Night, I'm a good actor and my dad put up a struggle with the hitman is all evidence about his feelings for his family

Doesn't make any sense to me that Jeremy Bamber would be surprised that his 6'4", fit and healthy father put up 'quite a struggle'.  Should think it would have been a mammoth struggle and feel sure Jeremy would have known this.  I really can't see him daring to take on his father in that way, Neville would have made mincemeat of him imo.  The only person Neville may have hesitated with until it was too late, would have been his daughter.  imo

[Steve_uk]

Doesn't make any sense to me that Jeremy Bamber would be surprised that his 6'4", fit and healthy father put up 'quite a struggle'.  Should think it would have been a mammoth struggle and feel sure Jeremy would have known this.  I really can't see him daring to take on his father in that way, Neville would have made mincemeat of him imo.  The only person Neville may have hesitated with until it was too late, would have been his daughter.  imo

No Nevill was a shadow of his former self at that stage,he was off sick with stress through his magistrates' job and yet still had to muck in shouldering a workload fit for a man half his age,Jeremy refusing to work overtime or get his hands dirty with the crop sprayer only adding to Nevill's workload.

Both parents were creaking under the strain,Sheila was possibly heading for another breakdown and Jeremy justified the killing of the twins in that they would grow up disturbed having their mother around as a role model. Heartless but true.

[maggie]

No Nevill was a shadow of his former self at that stage,he was off sick with stress through his magistrates' job and yet still had to muck in shouldering a workload fit for a man half his age,Jeremy refusing to work overtime or get his hands dirty with the crop sprayer only added to Nevill's workload.

Both parents were creaking under the starin,Sheila was possibly heading for another breakdown and Jeremy justified the killing of the twins in that they would grow up disturbed having their mother around as a role model. Heartless but true.

Not true steve, this is your take on the situation.  Sheila was a very sick young woman and a dreadful worry for her parents, with no support from the state.  Jeremy wouldn't be in the picture at all except they would be pleased he was getting on and working hard on the farm.  He was only 61 steve, you make out he was some old person of 80 who obviously would struggle with farm work but Neville was no doubt fitter than most.  Apart from Sheila's problems there was also something else worrying them as we know they had a panic button fitted.  The police don't do that on a whim and as there is a suggestion this was connected to Neville's work as a magistrate that may be the reason he was off sick from that position.....  It is convenient to blame all this on Jeremy but there were many other reasons for their troubles and NO proof that any of it was connected to Jeremy.

[lookout]

Those thoughts would have been in Sheilas' mind,,Steve,not Jeremys' as he was living the high life and enjoying what any normal 24 year old would. It was poor Sheila who had the dark thoughts.
Thoughts of Colin with somebody else when she herself thought there may have been a chance of reconciliation.
Thoughts that another woman would be involved with the children.
Thoughts that the children would be fostered out.
Steve there are a whole list of " motives " on Sheilas side,,that would have driven her to distraction.   

[Patti]

No Nevill was a shadow of his former self at that stage,he was off sick with stress through his magistrates' job and yet still had to muck in shouldering a workload fit for a man half his age,Jeremy refusing to work overtime or get his hands dirty with the crop sprayer only adding to Nevill's workload.

Both parents were creaking under the strain,Sheila was possibly heading for another breakdown and Jeremy justified the killing of the twins in that they would grow up disturbed having their mother around as a role model. Heartless but true.

So working a 10/12 hour shift a day is not overtime Steve?  It was harvest time and there were many students who would be freely available to work on the farm for a few extra quid....Matthew Hampton/Hampson was one who offered his labour free of charge...Nevill need not do all the work, they had money to employ farmhands...

[Steve_uk]

Not true steve, this is your take on the situation.  Sheila was a very sick young woman and a dreadful worry for her parents, with no support from the state.  Jeremy wouldn't be in the picture at all except they would be pleased he was getting on and working hard on the farm.  He was only 61 steve, you make out he was some old person of 80 who obviously would struggle with farm work but Neville was no doubt fitter than most.  Apart from Sheila's problems there was also something else worrying them as we know they had a panic button fitted.  The police don't do that on a whim and as there is a suggestion this was connected to Neville's work as a magistrate that may be the reason he was off sick from that position.....  It is convenient to blame all this on Jeremy but there were many other reasons for their troubles and NO proof that any of it was connected to Jeremy.

Many homes in the 1980s had panic buttons fitted including my parents' home and they weren't half as wealthy as the Bambers. It seemed to be de rigeur especially with the unemployment which led to an unprecedented crime wave,especially as many Police Officers were on secondment to deal with the miner's strike.

I'm afraid Julie's statement makes all too mch sense,we know that Jeremy fooled the chief investigator DCI Taff Jones which must have given him a certain cachet,and I'm afraid Jeremy carried on behaving in the same disgraceful way he did before the murders,pleased with Basil Cock's assessment of his worth,chuffed with the booty which he stashed in the master bedroom after pretending in front of Ann Eaton that he was too frightened to venture upstairs.

The only good thing to come out of this Aga saga is that Jeremy was stopped in his tracks and was not able to profit from his crime on the backs of his elderly parents who should have been looking for quality time at their age and taking it a little easier,and of course Sheila and the boys who deserved their share,unlike Jeremy who was greedy and impatient for it all,and heaven knows how he would have acted with Anji Greaves in the London nightclubs snorting cocaine and still heavily dependent on cannabis one wonders if he would have killed himself within year's end.

[Steve_uk]

So working a 10/12 hour shift a day is not overtime Steve?  It was harvest time and there were many students who would be freely available to work on the farm for a few extra quid....Matthew Hampton/Hampson was one who offered his labour free of charge...Nevill need not do all the work, they had money to employ farmhands...

I wondered about Matthew Hampton but apparently there's no information to tie him in with any knowledge of the murders. Of course it was the busiest time of year for the farm and Jeremy had to play his part,his unsuspecting parents the victims of the unfolding drama. Jeremy would reason within himself that this would be the last year he would indulge in farm work,he just wasn't cut out for it and should have told his parents instead of going along with something which was not in his nature and which led to tragedy.

[andrea]

Going on the title of the thread, it was JB that said he hired a hitman, Julie didn't make this up.

[mike tesko]

Not true steve, this is your take on the situation.  Sheila was a very sick young woman and a dreadful worry for her parents, with no support from the state.  Jeremy wouldn't be in the picture at all except they would be pleased he was getting on and working hard on the farm.  He was only 61 steve, you make out he was some old person of 80 who obviously would struggle with farm work but Neville was no doubt fitter than most.  Apart from Sheila's problems there was also something else worrying them as we know they had a panic button fitted.  The police don't do that on a whim and as there is a suggestion this was connected to Neville's work as a magistrate that may be the reason he was off sick from that position.....  It is convenient to blame all this on Jeremy but there were many other reasons for their troubles and NO proof that any of it was connected to Jeremy.

Maggie, you are a star, everything you say here has a ring of truth about it...

[Patti]

I wondered about Matthew Hampton but apparently there's no information to tie him in with any knowledge of the murders. Of course it was the busiest time of year for the farm and Jeremy had to play his part,his unsuspecting parents the victims of the unfolding drama. Jeremy would reason within himself that this would be the last year he would indulge in farm work,he just wasn't cut out for it and should have told his parents instead of going along with something which was not in his nature and which led to tragedy.

He lives abroad now...does Matthew.  Did you also know that Brett E Collins has a motor vehicle ban till 2015....both of them living in the same Country...Matthew was a local man so he would be aware of the murders...I would think. 

[Patti]

Maggie, you are a star, everything you say here has a ring of truth about it...

She's an angel toooooooooooooooooooo