Who Bled here?

[Steve_uk]

Can you post professor knight's evidence please? I've been asking for months now. The only reference to him I can find is in the appeal decision which says:

Professor Knight, another defence witness, lent support to Dr Bradley's evidence as to the feature of excessive violence in parental killings. He also spoke of instances where the murderer (having killed their spouses in most cases) has then gone about some mundane or "ritualistic" task, such as cleaning up before committing suicide. In cross-examination he accepted the proposition contained in an article, which he himself had written some years earlier, that "women almost never commit suicide by shooting".

Chapter 35 Blood Relations(Roger Wilkes):

"Defence pathologist Professor Bernard Knight told the court that he'd known many cases of women killing their children then committing suicide. A Bible,he said was part of the ritualistic scenario of suicide. It was also known,he went on,for killers to tidy up after committing murder before turning the gun on themselves. Professor Knight said Sheila Caffell had been upright-probably sitting on a bed or leaning against it while sitting on the floor-when the gun was fired.As there was so much blood on her nightdress,there must have been some delay-up to a few minutes-between the two wounds."

Did Jeremy lead his sister into the master bedroom to take a Bible class with her mother June? Did he catch her unawares in the first shot and realize with horror that he had not yet killed her? Did the alternatives run through his mind of leaving Sheila there with just the one shot hoping that this would prove fatal,then realizing that he had to make sure as he loaded the gun with one remaining bullet and forced himself to fire a second shot,which this time had to be fatal.

Did Jeremy finally come to realize what death involved that warm August morning,just as those politicians like Tony Blair who had no prior knowledge of the battlefield must finally have realized what forces they had unleashed as they signed away hundreds of thousands of lives at the stroke of a pen? Does the scene at White House Farm still haunt Jeremy,does he have flashbacks every time he sees blood or espies a young long-haired brunette like his pretty sister Sheila?

Or is the truth more prosaic,as told to Julie in a cafe in one of the rarer moments after the murders they were alone together. Jeremy felt nothing he told her. Maybe there was something wrong with him,but there was no remorse. They were all mercy killings,marionettes to be disposed of at Jeremy's will as he looked at the bigger picture and took the lion's share of his parents' estate. All those years in proximity,yet living as intimate strangers,until the final forces inside Jeremy were unleashed and wreaked their terrible revenge on people he regarded as unfeeling,uncaring and no more than sub-human in Jeremy's mind.

[bigdave1975]

Actualy there is no evidence of him spendi.g any inheritence money at all.he never got a penny steve.and we only have julies word for what was said between in the cafe steve.the white porshe he bought was only a replica worth a fraction of the money it was supposed to be worth.all the witnesses benifited finsncialy.what will your opinion be if he ever gets aquited.or any of the files stored by essex police get accidrntly sent to jeremies lawyer.and he gets aquited.i suppose you are the type of person that said hang the guidford. 4.and birmingham. 6.

[Lugg]

I don´t think the drops of blood are Sheila´s. If they had been hurled there by caughing or spatting from fast motion, they would have a "tail", the ones on the pictures are round, which means they are from a person NOT IN MOTION OR VERY (very) SLOW MOTION. That said, Sheila might have shot herself/been shot standing, then, when the first shot did not kill her, she might have just stood there for a while bleeding; because those drops are from a person standing, sitting or walking EXTREMELY slowly, as I said. They could be from June - Neville - Sheila.... we´ll never know - they made a bonfire of the evidence....
Mike, have these photos been looked at by a blood-spatter analyst? I think an expert would be able to interpret a lot from them.

That is a very good point actually. It may very well explain why Sheila had blood streaks running down her arm, which would not happen if she was lying flat?

[Steve_uk]

Actualy there is no evidence of him spendi.g any inheritence money at all.he never got a penny steve.and we only have julies word for what was said between in the cafe steve.the white porshe he bought was only a replica worth a fraction of the money it was supposed to be worth.all the witnesses benifited finsncialy.what will your opinion be if he ever gets aquited.or any of the files stored by essex police get accidrntly sent to jeremies lawyer.and he gets aquited.i suppose you are the type of person that said hang the guidford. 4.and birmingham. 6.

No I'm not in favour of the death penalty,and besides were it a matter of life and death for Jeremy in 1986 another jury member may have been swayed and we'd have had the Jeremy and Anji Greaves story which doesn't bear thinking about.

I'm afraid Jeremy is guilty,but I really don't get any satisfaction out of saying it,because as David Boutflour said:"Nobody wins..you can't bring them back.."

[Bridget]

I don´t think the drops of blood are Sheila´s. If they had been hurled there by caughing or spatting from fast motion, they would have a "tail", the ones on the pictures are round, which means they are from a person NOT IN MOTION OR VERY (very) SLOW MOTION. That said, Sheila might have shot herself/been shot standing, then, when the first shot did not kill her, she might have just stood there for a while bleeding; because those drops are from a person standing, sitting or walking EXTREMELY slowly, as I said. They could be from June - Neville - Sheila.... we´ll never know - they made a bonfire of the evidence....
Mike, have these photos been looked at by a blood-spatter analyst? I think an expert would be able to interpret a lot from them.

They were looked at by Professor Herbert Leon Macdonnell, who concluded that Sheila did not commit suicide.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,264.0.html

[Lugg]

They were looked at by Professor Herbert Leon Macdonnell, who concluded that Sheila did not commit suicide.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,264.0.html

Unfortunately he had only the photographs to go by. He was at several disadvantages, in that he could not really tell if the blood spots were made by mrs Bamber walking around the room or Sheila Caffell as he could not test the different blood groups.
Also if the blood streaks from Sheila's right arm were travelling downwards towards her elbow then this indicates that her arm was vertical at that time. Therefore she could not have received the first shot lying down.
Again he was at a disadvantage in that he could not tell if the palm or thumb of her right hand was bloodied or not. Therefore how could his findings be conclusive?

[Alias]

They were looked at by Professor Herbert Leon Macdonnell, who concluded that Sheila did not commit suicide.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,264.0.html

Thanks, I will read that when I fisish working.

[tyler]

Actually,Macdonnell concluded that Sheila did not commit suicide as he was led to believe it was a FACT that a silencer was on the murder weapon.I have read somewhere that he has since changed his opinion.

[Steve_uk]

Actually,Macdonnell concluded that Sheila did not commit suicide as he was led to believe it was a FACT that a silencer was on the murder weapon.I have read somewhere that he has since changed his opinion.

He investigated until the money ran out. So much for the professional integrity of this real-life Sherlock Holmes.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1162115/New-evidence-Bamber-killings-murderer-makes-appeal-conviction.html

[lookout]

 Remember the case of the " Cardiff Three ".? Back in '88 they were falsely imprisoned for the murder of a prostitute,who'd been stabbed over 50 times.  Two years later they were cleared on appeal after DNA techniques were used on evidence which was taken from the crime scene.
Nine retired  police officers and three who were still serving,were arrested and questioned for false imprisonment,conspiracy to pervert the course of justice,along with misconduct in public office.
2011 saw the entire case collapse because the judge had ruled that the police officers couldn't be given a fair trial due to the previous publicity.

Do as I say,,not as I do.One rule for them,,another for us. Is this justice .?
Less than four years after Jeremy was imprisoned,,DNA  testing was available,,so why wasn't it put into practice before vital evidence was destroyed.? Call that a fair trial.?
 

[Patti]

They were looked at by Professor Herbert Leon Macdonnell, who concluded that Sheila did not commit suicide.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,264.0.html

But his report did not address all the evidence it was simply a report to advise.   

[Bridget]

But his report did not address all the evidence it was simply a report to advise.   

You must be reading a different report to me then.

[Patti]

You must be reading a different report to me then.

Am i reading the first paragraph wring then? When he states that:

I have completed a preliminary study of the photographs and reports that were sent to this laboratory relative to the above sited case.  It must be emphasized  that this is a preliminary report does not address all evidence, reports and photographs which have been made available.  It has been issued simply to advice you of the finding thus far. 

[Bridget]

Am i reading the first paragraph wring then? When he states that:

I have completed a preliminary study of the photographs and reports that were sent to this laboratory relative to the above sited case.  It must be emphasized  that this is a preliminary report does not address all evidence, reports and photographs which have been made available.  It has been issued simply to advice you of the finding thus far. 

Oh sorry, you're right, that's what he says. But I think you also need to read the letter at the end of the report in which he says that there is no question as to the manner of Sheil's death and describes his findings as 'obvious' (in other words, don't waste your money on further reports).

[Patti]

Oh sorry, you're right, that's what he says. But I think you also need to read the letter at the end of the report in which he says that there is no question as to the manner of Sheil's death and describes his findings as 'obvious' (in other words, don't waste your money on further reports).

I'm reading it Bridget  .....I have seen this document before and to be fair I can tare strips off it from start to finish...I could have done better with a chemistry set from Toys 'R' Us..... :D :D :D :D :D

Where did me wring come form lol