The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...

[bigdave1975]

Patti the expert are saying this only about the fatal shot both shots were not fatal.and at least one shot were a silencer was used patti.

[susan]

Hi Patti

I am somewhat confused if a silencer was used who would have hid it at the back of the very deep gun cupboard had it been Jeremy he would have cleaned it first had it been Sheila she would have just left it in situ when she removed it from the rifle.

[lookout]

Mike if a sillencer was used.jeremy has to be the culprit.sheila if she did shoot herself with the first shot.would have been in to much pain.and the first shot would not have killed her but she would not have lasted long.mike.your telling me she shot herself once then took the silencer of put it away then went upstairs and shot herself.come on mike lol.

It's quite feasible that Sheila had removed the silencer downstairs as she'd have found it a bit cumbersome to use. Besides the fact that it lengthened the rifle somewhat,,it wouldn't have felt that it was having the desired effect as far as directness went. I'd feel myself,,that there was less definition in using a silencer,,,particularly at the close quarters for which it was used.

[bigdave1975]

I know whoever did is a clutz.the killer would have taken the sillencer with him.another thing i know jeremy had taken a lie detector test.i wonder what julie mugfords test results would look like.i think if jeremies willing to take one so should the rest.

[bigdave1975]

I would definately say the silencer wasvused at some point.

[Patti]

Hi Patti

I am somewhat confused if a silencer was used who would have hid it at the back of the very deep gun cupboard had it been Jeremy he would have cleaned it first had it been Sheila she would have just left it in situ when she removed it from the rifle.

I agree Susan....There is absolutely not one shred of evidence that Sheila shot herself with the silencer then put it back in a cupboard or placed it anywhere else for that matter.  If one had been used it would be in situ like you say.  In my opinion, she was shot and died where she was found.   

[bigdave1975]

Anyway got to go out yo my pals 40th tonight need to get ready hes picking me up at 7pm.

[bigdave1975]

I know patti but the fact that one shot was fired with the silencer and the other without.if she didnt put away.eere did it go.unless jones took it away maybe thats why his statements are being witheld.

[mike tesko]

Mike if a sillencer was used.jeremy has to be the culprit.sheila if she did shoot herself with the first shot.would have been in to much pain.and the first shot would not have killed her but she would not have lasted long.mike.your telling me she shot herself once then took the silencer of put it away then went upstairs and shot herself.come on mike lol.

No, I am not saying that at all...

You are taking the approach which Ewen Smith decided to take once we identified the mark (beginning of 2004) around the lower entry wound on Sheila's neck, which corresponded with the dimensions of the end of the silncers end cap. Once we drew his attention to the mark, he simply said, "well, thats it then, Jeremy must be guilty"...

Of course, when I drew the evidence of the mark to Jeremys attention he was dismissive of it, saying that the end of a sound moderator had not caused that mark, he was trying to put it down to impact bruising whuch occurred in the flesh after Sheila had been shot in that part of her neck...

At that time, I could see whay ewen Smith (now a CCRC Commisioner) took the view he was taking, and why Jeremy was reacting as he did, but the point I was hoping to make to eiother of them, was that it was a possibility that for some reason or another the sound moderator had become deatched from the gun, inbetween the two shots being fired into Sheila's throat? What I meant at that time, was that a silencer could have been used when she was shot in the side of the neck, but one was not fitted to the gun whuch fired the fatal shot under the chin. Of course, if this was true, it would require the silencer in question to have been found at the scene. It would explain how Sheila's blood could have got into the silencer before she was shiot fatally under the chin, and demonstrate that there would have been no need for anyone to remove the silencer from the gun after Sheila was killed by the shot under the chin - which could only mean that Sheila was murdered, not that she committed suicide?

My argument at that time (2004) was that it was possible for Sheila's blood to have got inside the silencer when she was shot non fatally in the side of the neck, and that by the time the fatal shot under the chin had been inflicted by whoever, and because there was no silencer fitted to the gun which fired the fatal shot under the chin, it must follow that Sheila could have non fatally shot herself with a silencer fitted to the gun which fired that (PV/20) shot, and explain hiw her blood got in to the silencer, without involvement of anyone else...

[susan]

Hello lookout

do you think that Sheila would have gone to all the trouble of hiding it deep in the back of the gun cupboard her mind would be not thinking like that.  It was found well out of sight in this deep cupboard by one of the rellies.  Unless of course that was not the silencer used at all but another one found by the police and taken away with other evidence. Makes one wonder

[susan]

bigdave  be good and if you can't be good be careful and don't lock yourself out again

[lookout]

Hello lookout

do you think that Sheila would have gone to all the trouble of hiding it deep in the back of the gun cupboard her mind would be not thinking like that.  It was found well out of sight in this deep cupboard by one of the rellies.  Unless of course that was not the silencer used at all but another one found by the police and taken away with other evidence. Makes one wonder

Because it's difficult to judge,or even hazard a guess,Susan,,is how it is alleged that Sheilas blood was inside it without her touching it. The only other way of course is that she chucked it on the floor and someone else had picked it up and thrown it in the cupboard. That way,,wherever it landed in the kitchen,then her blood and also Nevilles' would have naturally been on it.
As you said,,,it might not have even been the same silencer.  It certainly needs some thought,,,but it's still not enough to charge anyone with murder though. It's ludicrous.

[mike tesko]

Hi Patti

I am somewhat confused if a silencer was used who would have hid it at the back of the very deep gun cupboard had it been Jeremy he would have cleaned it first had it been Sheila she would have just left it in situ when she removed it from the rifle.

Do not be confused, that is what the people who put the case together to convict Jeremy Bamber, want everyone to be, look at the well defined circular mark around the lower entry wound, it has a diameter of one inch, the same measurement, as the end of a silencers end cap. The line around the circumference of this mark is too well defined for it to have been caused by impaxct bruising to the surface of the skin as a result of being shot by an unsilenced gun, a silencer pressed into the skin at the time this non fatal shot was fired caused this mark to show up as it has done, it confirms that a silencer was used when Sheila was initailly shot to the side of the neck, a similar mark is missing from around the shot under the chin which was also supposed to be a contact shot...

If you press a silencer into the skin it leaves a corresponding mark - if you are not killed as a result of this shot, the mark might show up as a bruise, but if the shot kills you, it might not. What I am saying is that because this particular shot did not kill Sheila, the mark upon the surface of the skin around the non fatal entry wound started to develop as a bruise. The bruising occurs because the heart is still beating and pumping blood around the body, trying to repair the damaged areas or parts, but if life is brought to an end there is insufficent time for bruising to develop...

[Lugg]

I would definately say the silencer wasvused at some point.

Where do you get that from?

[susan]

Hi lookout

I have had it from good authority that the silencer was found at the very back of a very deep cupboard could not have just been thrown there and indeed was it Sheila's blood in the silencer.  I wonder.  So many strange events in this case to say the least if it was not so serious it would be funny and a total farce