Author Topic: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...  (Read 39634 times)

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Offline Alias

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #315 on: October 27, 2013, 10:39:PM »
Good night, Patti, sweet dreams!

Offline mike tesko

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #316 on: October 28, 2013, 07:29:AM »
At 11.45am, on 7th August 1985, DS "Stan" Jones left Jeremy's cottage to return to the scene, where he took possession of four exhibits, SBJ/1, SBJ/2, SBJ,3 and SBJ/4 (SBJ/1 being a sound moderator) - this being true, David Boutflour could hardly find the same silencer in the back of the cupboard in the downstairs office on 10th August 1985...

What did DS Jones do with the silencer (SBJ/1) that he took possession of at the scene on the morning of 7th August 1985? Where did he recover it from? Where did he take it, where was it stored and who did it belong to?

If the silencer (SBJ/1) found by DS Jones on 7th August 1985, was / is the same silencer recovered three days later by David Boutflour (DB/1), then how did it get into the gun cupboard to enable David Boutflour to find it there three days later? Four police officers who searched the gun cupboard in question continue to maintain that there was no silencer inside the gun cupboard on the morning of the shootings, so how could one materialize there three days later to permit David Boutflour to conveniently find it there, covered in blood?

If it was the same silencer on both occasions, found by DS Jones on 7th August 1985, and by David Boutflour on 10th August 1985, somebody put the silencer back in the gun cupboard on some as yet unknown occasion prior to the 10th August, at a time when the silencer which was put back was bloodstained...

It has recently been brought to my attention, that upon his return to the scene by DS Jones, after 11.45am, and the recovery of the silencer from inside the downstairs toilet, that the bodies of the victims were still insitu at the scene, and being subject of disturbance by officers engaged in a training exercise, that the silencer in question (SBJ/1) had been used by officers in a bizarre exercise whilst carrying out a reconstruction of the raid, had wiped blood away from around the lower wound on Sheila's throat, and that a weapon with the sound moderator attached to its barrel was pushed up against the entry wound, with a view to establishing whether or not police could present a case for Sheila having shot herself, with that silencer on that gun, but this was discarded. Information given to me is that the silencer in question, was then handed to DS Jones after his arrival back at the scene, who proceeded to take it downstairs to the toilet and photograph the said silencer fitted to the barrel of the second rifle. The purpose of this being done, was to create a false impression that the silencer in question had not been brought into contact with Sheila's throat at all, but that it had always been present on the second guns barrel inside the downstairs toilet...

The photograph of the silencer fitted to the guns barrel, that was taken by DS Jones, on that occasion, was not part of the MASTER COPY ALBUM, or the COURT ALBUM...

Sheila's blood may have got into the silencer when it was offered into a contact position against the lower bullet entry wound by police during the training exercise, and this took place prior to Sheila  being shot under the chin by an unsilenced rifle positioned onto her body under the chin, which discharged the fatal bullet when police were arranging the fingers of her hand upon the trigger mechanism - this came about because no-one had checked to see if the rifle leaning against the main bedroom window was still loaded or not. This fatal mistake by police led to the loss of Sheila Caffells life at the scene...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #317 on: October 28, 2013, 09:40:AM »
If the information I have been given is true, then it adequately explains why there is a circular mark around the lower non fatal bullet entry wound, and a blob of blood on the end cap, with Sheila's blood inside it - a presence of the mark there does not mean that Jeremy is responsible for shooting dead his sister, all it proves is that blood from Sheila got into the silencer from blood of the first non fatal wound, not the second fatal shot under the chin.,
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 09:42:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #318 on: October 28, 2013, 10:12:AM »
If the information I have been given is true, then it adequately explains why there is a circular mark around the lower non fatal bullet entry wound, and a blob of blood on the end cap, with Sheila's blood inside it - a presence of the mark there does not mean that Jeremy is responsible for shooting dead his sister, all it proves is that blood from Sheila got into the silencer from blood of the first non fatal wound, not the second fatal shot under the chin.,

However, there are other things to take into account, which fall to be considered, regarding the ballistic experts opinion that the muzzle of the weapon was three inches above the surface of the skin when the non fatal bullet (PV/20) was fired...

Perhaps some of you might be interested in what I have got to say regarding this?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 10:16:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline campion

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #319 on: October 28, 2013, 08:21:PM »
Hi Mike, Having just read this enlightening Topic in one fell swoop, to interrupt the apparent pervading silence to your latest question, I shall be more than interested to follow further revelations, which you may be about to elaborate on.
One small observation:-  the sound moderator/silencer to which was given the reference SBJ/1, is there a possibility that it was damaged in the 'entry fracas', for a fragmented bullet to have been extracted from Sheila's neck during the autopsy conducted by the Pathologist?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #320 on: October 28, 2013, 09:56:PM »
Hi Mike, Having just read this enlightening Topic in one fell swoop, to interrupt the apparent pervading silence to your latest question, I shall be more than interested to follow further revelations, which you may be about to elaborate on.
One small observation:-  the sound moderator/silencer to which was given the reference SBJ/1, is there a possibility that it was damaged in the 'entry fracas', for a fragmented bullet to have been extracted from Sheila's neck during the autopsy conducted by the Pathologist?

Yes, silencer SBJ/1, possibly damaged, or at least damaging test bullets fired through it at a later stage, for sure - was the original badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) fired through such a damaged sound moderator? Informant "Z" assures me it was...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Reader

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #321 on: November 04, 2013, 09:01:AM »
As your external drive was a Maxtor (now defunct) one, I would not assume that it will work reliably.

According to mike he was still on the phone at 3.42. That's my original point. His latest theory ( proported to be supported by mysterious informants ) is impossible and incidentally, according to bamber's legal team, not true!
I was going by the times in the logs, which suggest that Jeremy set out at about 3:42 (perhaps 3:43 if he drove faster than my estimate of 25mph for most of the way).

I describe the open line from the scene, (3.29am to 3.42am, and beyond) as being problematic, because it was as a result of the panic alarm fitted at the scene being activated, but at some stage after this, someone at the scene, lifted the telephone handset thus creating an open line connection, and placed the handset onto the kitchen worktop, the latter was done at some stage between 3.29am and 3.42am...
That follows if the timing of 3:29am is correct (even if Jeremy's call lasted about six minutes rather than eleven minutes), but you seem to be relying on an informant for that (apparently without asking the informant how he knew this time), and there seems to be nothing in the publicly available evidence to corroborate it.

. . . it was said at trial and in the appeals that it was excepted that Jeremy made his call at 3:26 A car was called out at 3:35 and according to the IR the raid team got a message at 3:33....therefore it's impossible that Jeremy called at 3:36..... :) :) :) :)
It's not impossible at all if Nevill called at 3:26am prior to Jeremy's call at 3:36am, but this possibility was missed until Bonnett's log was found.

As vidvic has pointed out, the paragraphs numbered paragraphs 26 and 27 in the 2002 Appeal judgement respectively contain "The officer's contact with Mr Bonnett was recorded as being at 3.26 a.m." and "At 3.35 a.m., Mr Bonnet arranged for a police car to go to White House Farm." How did the court know the times 3.26 and 3.35 were recorded by Mr Bonnett unless his log was available to them? That isn't clear, but there are no other references in the judgement to what Mr Bonnett recorded.

The one being questioned clearly didn't know if he was coming or going, or if the clock was ever right. Very poor observations for a cop given the enormity of the tragedy.
He stumbled occasionally, but he stated that the clock was accurate and specifically disagreed with the suggestion that it wasn't. Unfortunately, he wasn't asked whether he had taken a call from Ralph Nevill Bamber ten minutes earlier.

Why would Nevill call the police at 3.26 and THEN activate a panic alarm, knowing the police were on their way?
No reason, but mike tesko is suggesting it was June, not Nevill, who used the panic button.

. . . Ralph made the call to Jeremy (3.25am), and the police at (3.36am)...
Isn't that last time a typing error, intended to be 3.26am, not 3.36am?

. . . the way in which the rifle was used, in a frenzied manner, the muzzle would certainly have got hot, hot enough to burn flesh
Even after 25 shots, all within a short period, it isn't hot enough to cause severe burns. That is why the televised experiments resorted to heating the rifle with a blowtorch.

. . . nobody can tell me that those children didn't wake up at some point on hearing all the noise . . .
A child can easily remain asleep whilst being transferred from one bed to another, so sleeping through gunshots in a separate room is certainly possible.

Just take it to a computer shop Mike. They can sometimes recover data from damaged drives. Easiest way.
You gotta be kidding! Most shops know next to nothing about data recovery.

I think the mark looks too wide to have been caused by a silencer?
Based on what information about how large a mark would be caused by a silencer?

Well said Tyler, totally agree - the mark looks nothing like a silencer mark.
That's not what tyler wrote, which related to the size of the mark. What photographs of silencer marks are you basing your opinion on?

If this mark is indeed from a sound moderator, . . . someone held the rifle firmly to her neck for that mark to be there.
How do you know? What mark would be caused by a rifle not held firmly?

It's outrageous to even contemplate that the police killed Sheila.
Why?

I don't believe for a second that the police shot Sheila!
That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Caroline R

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #322 on: November 04, 2013, 12:06:PM »
So you obviously can't see the circular bruise like mark around the lower bullet entry wound on Sheila's neck, that is visible, and like you say, neither could any of the prosecution expert's, or the police, which begs the question - why don't any of them comment upon it, and its relevance? What had they all got to hide?

I personally see no mark at all but IF there were a mark tying ANY wound to the silencer, wouldn't they have jumped all over it given that the silencer links Jeremy to the murders?

Offline Reader

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #323 on: November 05, 2013, 04:21:AM »
How does it link Jeremy to the killings?

Offline campion

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #324 on: November 05, 2013, 11:26:AM »
Hi Reader,
As an adjunct to your last poser, :- If the last bullet in the breech of the Anschutz rifle (the presence of which had not been detected by those present in the bedroom when Sheila was instantaneously killed in the informatives scenario), was intended for Jeremy on his anticipated arrival at WHF on  his 'Jack Jones', then who might be the enterprising policeman/relative who proposed the silencer/sound moderator theory in order
to put the culpability on Jeremy for the murder of his beloved family?
Who were the people photographed with the silencer on the rifle to exhibit the proposition that Sheila could not have shot herself  and then returned the silencer to the 'Gun Cupboard', where it was allegedly found subsequently by DRB, to announce its finding to the gathering of people assembled to witness same.
One of the exhibitors was Peter Eaton, the other a PC from Witham PS, whose name escapes me.

Who was the person dubbed by DCI Taff Jones as Miss Marples? Can anyone put in the frame  the person who may have proposed the solution to impending financial considerations?



Offline Patti

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #325 on: November 05, 2013, 06:58:PM »
Quote from: Patti on October 27, 2013, 10:16:PM
It's outrageous to even contemplate that the police killed Sheila.

Why?
[/quote]

Hi Reader :)

For one the bullets and shell cases recovered from the scene....the size of the entry wounds and who would cover such a thing up? Someone somewhere would squeal eventually....Its to massive to cover a thing like that up...in my opinion... :) :) :) :)

Offline Reader

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #326 on: November 06, 2013, 10:46:AM »
. . . when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth . . .

Offline tyler

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #327 on: November 06, 2013, 04:45:PM »
I certainly don't think the idea is outrageous. There may only be a handful of people in the 'know' and these handful of people 'just aren't talkin'.

mertol22

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #328 on: November 06, 2013, 05:00:PM »
Quote from: Patti on October 27, 2013, 10:16:PM
It's outrageous to even contemplate that the police killed Sheila.

Why?


Hi Reader :)

For one the bullets and shell cases recovered from the scene....the size of the entry wounds and who would cover such a thing up? Someone somewhere would squeal eventually....Its to massive to cover a thing like that up...in my opinion... :) :) :) :)
With planning and penalties anything can be covered up patti, JFK, Roswell 1947, Savile, Hillsborough to name a few.

Offline Reader

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Re: I have managed to retrieve some documents, from my 2004 drive...
« Reply #329 on: November 07, 2013, 03:31:PM »
... the princes in the Tower, the murder of Lot's wife, ...