She's got the gun

[Alias]

I am reading about schizophrenia on a Danish website (netdoktor.dk)

10% of patients diagnozed with the disease commit suicide. Again, that proves nothing, but it is a staggeringly high number.

[big-goolies]

i dont consider 10% of anything to be staggeringly high

[Lugg]

i dont consider 10% of anything to be staggeringly high

It depends on hour many have the illness. If you are talking 10,000 who have the illness, then 1,000 is a lot of people committing suicide.

[Alias]

i dont consider 10% of anything to be staggeringly high

It is high in my opinion. Very high. Makes me feel so bad for people with this illness. I had a friend who had it. He cut his own throat and died, poor guy. He was so nice.

[Jane]

I'm not sure it would have been as a last resort lookout because didn't June have it in 1982 and she wasn't as seriously ill as Sheila. To my mind Sheila showed all the classic symptoms of having received ECT(vacant,probable short-term memory loss the way she stared and didn't engage in converastions). Weren't the tablets you described on another thread just to counteract the effects of the Haloperidol?

On how many people who have received ECT are you basing your diagnosis of Sheila showing classic signs of having received it.

[Alias]

How about: Mentally ill persons have a ten times higher rate of suicide than the rest of the population. Still reading - still no proof. I just find it interesting and am thinking aloud.

[big-goolies]

It is high in my opinion. Very high. Makes me feel so bad for people with this illness. I had a friend who had it. He cut his own throat and died, poor guy. He was so nice.

 
But as females are less likely to commit suicide it puts SC into a smaller %

[big-goolies]

its what i was saying yesterday.... looking at SC and her illness and other factors , she in a constantly decreaseing %

[Jane]

 
But as females are less likely to commit suicide it puts SC into a smaller %

BG, it rather sounds like you're splitting hairs here. The fact that a smaller percentage of females per se commit suicide doesn't necessarily mean a smaller percentage of mentally ill women commit suicide, but even if it did, it still doesn't rule out that Sheila didn't.

[Alias]

 
But as females are less likely to commit suicide it puts SC into a smaller %

If they don´t make it into the statistics, they can´t count in them... 

[Lugg]

 
But as females are less likely to commit suicide it puts SC into a smaller %

It is still a percentage. If we think like that we might as well say that no women commit suicide. Sheila is still a statistical possibility.

[Steve_uk]

On how many people who have received ECT are you basing your diagnosis of Sheila showing classic signs of having received it.

I don't know anyone personally who had ECT but we know June had it and seemed fine upon return to the Farm,but gradually slipped into depression once again. I'm also going off Jeremy's statement that Sheila had it but I can't corroborate it except that her symptoms do seems to me similar to those Electroconvulsive Therapy can induce.http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvice/treatments/ect.aspx

[Nickos]

Nickos

It makes no difference he was the last person to see his family anyway, despite the invention of a phone call...or stumbling across the crime scene.  The house was locked up. The rifle was in place.  Jeremy turned up for work at 8am other farm hands turned up earlier...it was the height of the season gathering rape...

I suppose its a matter of opinion a, guessing game...sadly! 

Hi Patti, 

Now I beg to differ  , I believe one of the first suspects in a murder case is the last person to see the victims alive.

As for the "house was locked up" and "the rifle was in place" – I don’t follow?

The prosecution still convicted JB on the basis that all door widows were locked from the inside (and JB was sat outside with EP from c.4am - having killed them all earlier.)

JB could have been let in, or got in through a (larger and previously left ajar) window.

Pure speculation, but JB may have had a key copied and unlocked a door. In this case he could have removed a key from a locked door prior to leaving whf (Nevill checks the door before retiring  - its locked so leaves it). JB returns, picks up the Anschutz from an outbuilding with one magazine fitted and  two spare.  He unlocks a door using the copied key, enters whf, locks the door and inserts the original key in the lock . JB carries out the killings. JB leaves – how, I don’t know, but 10 of  the Jury were okay with this.

The window JB is supposed to have left by (with the knock it, drop down catch - as previously used by JB) must have been believable to the 10 Jury members - and one can understand why if JB had used this method to enter and exit whf before and, I believe at least on one occasion, after the murders.

JB, imo, admitted to entering whf this way as a cover for any evidence he may have left on the window that night - similar cover to the handling of the rifle the evening before the murders.

[maggie]

Hi nickos, there was never any proof that jeremy could knock down the catch from the outside he didnt do it the night he entered via the window in september and the police were never able to do it either. It was only supposition. So how did he manage to leave the house locked and bolted?

[Nickos]

Hi nickos, there was never any proof that jeremy could knock down the catch from the outside he didnt do it the night he entered via the window in september and the police were never able to do it either. It was only supposition. So how did he manage to leave the house locked and bolted?

Hi Maggie, I assume that all external doors were either bolted from the inside, or had a key inserted on the inside of  the lock. 

Was it just the ground floor that was deemed to be secure and locked from the inside?

I believe there was an open window upstairs.

A bit farfetched maybe, but after the murders could JB have placed a ladder up to that open window.

Gone back inside whf locked up the ground floor, got out the upstairs window onto the ladder. Pushed the sash window back up. Climbed down the ladder and replaced it in an outbuilding.

I presume a farm would have a ladder on the premises?

I wonder if a ladder was ever found and examined forensically – knowing EP’s style I bet not!