Author Topic: The case of Madeleine McCann  (Read 891678 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2835 on: May 21, 2017, 05:28:PM »
 
David Payne interview continued..


Reply "Yeah, its ******************, . This is not the phone that I had on the night. This is a, a new phone that I've had since then, quite a few of the numbers I've transferred across.'

1485 "Right.'

 Reply "But I haven't got all the numbers that I originally had on that phone.'

1485 "Okay. I'm gonna go through a series of numbers and I want you to have a look in your phone book and see whether you can tell me who they are.'

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "The first one, the phone number ends in, and I'll just give you the last four digits.'

 Reply "Will you just hang on two secs, this is a bit, okay.'

1485 "It's ****.'

 Reply "**** SA.'

1485 "And who's SA''

 Reply "Err he is err my, Fiona's sister LW, that's her husband.'

1485 "And what sort of a relationship do you have with him''

 Reply "Err a very good relationship. He is err someone that I've known for many years, we've been to their wedding, they came to our wedding, and err he's you know a very good friend.'

 1485 "Okay. Then there's a series of one, two, three, four, five, six text messages around about six p.m. on Friday.'

 Reply "The Friday, yes, err the, these were all in relation to you know what had been happening that, that, that day basically and to get advice from S. Again, you know, a bit like I said with err Fiona's err father, you know he's someone that I trust very well who was not with us at the time who would, who could think calmly and clearly and to just ask advice about you know what was going on, what were they picking up in the UK err you know what coverage was it getting, what, what, what did they know was going on, you know, could they feed anything back, we wanted to get any information that we possibly could, you know, that was the conversation.'

01:22:21 1485 "Okay the next number is, ends in **.'

 Reply "**' I've err I've not got that one in.'

1485 "You've not got that one in''

 Reply "No.'

 1485 "Again, there was a series of text messages around about the same time on the Friday the fourth. There was err two calls and then...'

 Reply "Around six o' clock''

1485 "Yeah, well the calls were made between eight and nine in the morning.'

 Reply "Right.'

1485 "And then there was between ten a.m. to six p.m. there's a series of eight text messages, actually I'm lying, no I'm wrong, sorry, scrap that, there was two, there was two calls between eight and nine in the morning and then one text message, two text messages around about ten a.m.'

 Reply "Right.'

1485 "Could you have been at the Police Station that, the following day around about that time''

 01:24:38 Reply "I mean we didn't leave the Police Station the following day until about eleven o' clock so that, I mean if they were ten a.m. then that would have been before.'

1485 "But that number's not in your book at all''

 Reply "No, as I say whether it's just because it's not one I've transferred across, because I've not got all of the numbers in this phone that I've got in my other one. I, I mean I can certainly get those for you.'

1485 "You may well have to actually.'

 Reply "Yeah okay.'

1485 "The next number ends in ***. Sorry, that's S again, sorry.'

 Reply "Okay.'

1485 "And again there was quite a number of text messages, so you text him again.'

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "Its okay, they've put it in the saved box here.'

 Reply "Oh right, so it's the same''

1485 "The same yeah. Okay, we'll move on, this is a small number and it, it is ***.'

 Reply "So that's a local number''

1485 "I think''

 01:26:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean err it may well have been SA gave us a contact of someone that was a friend of the family in Portugal who err could get us mobile phones because Kate and Gerry you know hadn't got any contact, you know way of contacting, their batteries were running out or something like that so SAhad basically said err you know there's, there's these people that we know there and you know that could have been it.'

1485 "Or, because then there were two text messages sent about half past, about ten o' clock on the Friday evening to that number.'

 Reply "Oh to that number, well that wouldn't make sense.'

1485 "No.'

 Reply "Err''

1485 "From that number to your number.'

 Reply "Oh, it could have been then, if they text me saying oh I hope everything's alright, you've got the phones and everything, that's the only thing.'

1485 "Okay, next number I'd like you to look for please David is **'

 01:27:13 Reply "That's gonna be my sister's' **''

1485 "** yeah. It starts with, it's *''

 Reply "Is it **.'

 1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "**''

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "Yeah it's my mum's number.'

1485 "What town is that''

 Reply "What town is that' Err Rochdale.'

1485 "Rochdale''

 Reply "Yeah, in Manchester.'


1485 "And again, there was a series of calls which are self explanatory I suppose.'

 Reply "Mm, yeah.'

1485 "The next number could well be another relative but I'll check with you anyway, it's **''

 Reply "Yeah my sister's.'

1485 "Your sister's''

 Reply "Yeah, that's Market Harborough.'

1485 "Next number is a, I think it's a London number, it's o, two, o, seven, and it ends its **.'
 Reply "**' Can we just ring it' (Laughs).'

01:29:09 1485 "(Laughs).'

 Reply "No. What time was that sorry that that was''

1485 "It's about, it's quarter past eleven or twenty three thirteen on the fourth on the Friday night.'

 Reply "At night''

1485 "Yeah. So my, my recollection of ** is a London number if that helps.'

 Reply "Yeah, I'll just have a little look. I, I can't remember, I've got friends that are down in London which I haven't got her number in here, whether she saw it and rang it I don't know. Was it a long, long call or''

1485 "Err, yeah it was quite a long call.'

 Reply "Right, okay.'

1485 "But you actually called the number.'

 Reply "Yeah, okay.'

1485 "Okay, the next number is, it's a mobile number and it ends in **'

 Reply "Mobile number **''

1485 "Yeah, yeah. **, and it ends in **.'

 01:31:16 Reply "Err,**'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "LL, whose a, you know, a friend of the family's.'

1485 "And what was the nature of the, it was a text message at quarter past eight, err quarter past six on the fourth.'

 Reply "Yeah.'

 1485 "Sent, I think it was sent from them to you.'

 Reply "Yeah, it would have been oh yeah, seen, seen what's happened out there, are you okay, you know I presume.'

1485 "Okay the final one is, well it ends in , **.'

 Reply "**' The other thing is, is that err Fiona was using my phone out there, she hadn't got her phone with her so some of these calls may be''

 1485 "This one's a call.

 Reply "But if she got the number and the put it in, she might know what it is, but yeah.'

1485 "Yeah, yeah I accept that.'

 Reply "**. Sorry ** was it''

1485 "**.'

 Reply "Let's have another look, no I don't think I've got that one.'

1485 "Okay.'

 Reply 'It's quite close together all this to all this, but no I can't see that one.'

1485 "Alright, okay well that's the end of the phone traffic, one fin, one question or one person I'd like to speak to you about is Yvonne MARTIN. Do you know a person called Yvonne MARTIN''

 01:34:03 Reply "Yvonne MARTIN''

1485 "Social Worker.'

 Reply "Right. Oh, okay, err there was a lady who was there on the err when me, when me and Kate were waiting on the err morning you know after Madeleine had disappeared err there was err a photographer who was living in the area who err approached us and was just saying ah I used to work for the Daily Mirror, he gave his card and then this woman came up and started err chatting to us who err essentially just said ah I've got many years of experience you know and just started to really try and again force their selves in the situation a bit rather than just saying look I'm around if you need me err you know, so basically I just said it wasn't you know appropriate at the time, could she leave us alone and err but I must admit I didn't know what her, that was you know, that was, and she was, you know she said she was trained for many years as a Social Worker and was out there now err and was offering her help, but not in a particularly helpful way and she appeared you know, and that was on the you know the morning, I don't know somewhere perhaps between nine and ten o' clock in the morning. Err you know I'm sure, sure she'd been at, you know, she popped in there and you know she was around the area, she was seen again, but I mean I didn't have any more contact with her then but at the time it wasn't particularly helpful. Err I can't really say any more than that.'

01:35:47 1485 "Did you know her before that meeting''

 Reply "Err no.'

1485 "Did you speak to the MCCANN'S about it''

 Reply "Err we, yeah we spoke in the context of you know that was completely inappropriate the way that she was trying to deal with it, it's like she was trying to council Kate there and then in the thick of, you know, they're still trying to establish what's going on and what was happening err so you know I spoke to, you know I'm sure I mentioned her to Kate and Gerry you know within a short space of time, you know within twenty four hours of it happening. Err you know, just an example I, you know I was with Kate for quite a number of hours where I was sat with her at the err Police Station in Portim' and everything and you know weeks later she said who was I sat with, you know, and it was that, its that kind of thing you know I'm sure you know I spoke to them about it there and then within twenty four hours but err you know nothing was really mentioned a great deal about her later on or you know it was the, the, you know pretty much you know the conversation was dealt, you know dealt with it there and then and it wasn't, you know, perhaps I mentioned it to the others saying you know and if she popped up here and there you know other people might have mentioned her but she wasn't something that kind of like was the focus of the conversations that we had subsequently.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 01:37:15 Reply "Err for that morning.'

1485 "Did you advise the MCCANN'S to turn to her''

 Reply "Not at all, no.'

1485 "Not at all''

 Reply "Not at all. She was someone I'd certainly say to, to keep clear of you know and I, and I think pretty much I was saying look you know, appreciate your concern at this stage but you know it's not the right time to be talking to her, if you want to leave a card then you know perhaps there might be a time in the future but you know can you just leave us please, and that was you know the basics of the conversation that I had with her. Err you know her timing was just completely off, err you know there was, I say there was someone else who visited on the night that she was abducted, I think she was from the upstairs and she was again you know trying to say there, there Kate, you're alright, and again it was just completely inappropriate timing.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "I didn't think there was anything sinister about it I just thought it was people who didn't really perhaps have an insight into you know what has gone on and what was good timing and what wasn't. I never really thought anything much more about either of them.'

1485 "Okay, there's no more questions at this stage.'

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take a short break, just take a bit of a coffee break.'

 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'

1485 "And then come straight back in with Gerry and Kate's questions.'

 Reply "Right.'

 1485 "Alright''

 Reply "Yeah, okay.'

01:38:42 1485 "Just before I finish, what we've been talking about on this section of the interview, is there anything that you feel you want to add that may be pertinent to the investigation''

 Reply "Again, just to you know summarise in that you know not many people find themselves in a situation like that and the way that Kate and Gerry were, there was nothing to suggest that there had been any foul play. They behaved so much as I would expect someone in the situation they were in and the way that their moods had changed from you know complete calm and serenity and enjoyment, just turned completely to you know distraught and you know that wasn't acting, that wasn't anyone, that was just pure grief of the situation that they found themselves in.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "And you know and the change was like that, it wasn't you know, err I don't think there's anything else I'd like to add at this stage.'

1485 "Okay that's fine, okay. It's two fifty nine, or fourteen fifty nine and I'll stop now

 01:40:00 The interview ceased at 1459 hours when the tape recorder was switched off.

 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 05:38:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2836 on: May 21, 2017, 05:40:PM »
David Payne interview..


RECORD OF TAPE RECORDED INTERVIEW Police Exhibit No IM25A
 Person Interviewed: David PAYNE Number of Pages 35
 Place of Interview: Force Headquarters, Enderby Signature of Interviewing
 Date of Interview: 11.04.08 Officer producing exhibit
 Time Commenced: 1530 hours
 Time Concluded: 1640 hours Duration of Interview: 70 minutes
 Interviewing Officer(s) DC 1485 MESSIAH Tape Reference nos:
 Other Persons Present None
 
 Tape counter times Person speaking Text
 
 00:00:05 1485 "Okay the video's now recording again. We're in a third interview with yourself. We're at Force Headquarters Police in Leicestershire. I am DC Ivor MESSIAH from Leicestershire Police Major Crime Team and the date is Friday the eleventh of April and the time I make by my watch is fifteen thirty exactly. Could you just tell me who you are please''
 Reply "I'm David PAYNE.'
 
1485 "Okay. I'm just continuing in relation to you being a witness to, or, in regards to the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine MCCANN, alright, and this is the third interview we're conducting.'

 Reply "Yes.'

1485 "Hopefully it should be the last. Once again a series of questions, a lot of open questions, take your time in answering and give me as thorough answer as possible.'

 Reply "Okay.'

1485 "Right, I just, before I move on I just need to refer back to the last interview just to clarify a couple of points.'

 Reply "Okay.'

00:01:05 1485 "One of the points is, do you recall you told me that when Kate had come back to the Tapas and said''

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "What had happened.'

 Reply "Yes.'

1485 "You'd said that, you referred to some sort of, her face, you said the look on her face''

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "Was, can you remember what you said''

 Reply "Err, how did I describe, I mean just you know the, it was just a haunting face of someone who's you know discovered what she discovered.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "It was just, you know, if you meet Kate now, you know, you can see it, you can just see it in her eyes still. Err, I mean, the only other way to put it, you know, there's something missing from her life.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "But it was just, you know, the grief and the horror in that face, you know.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "It was just err I'll just never forget it.'

1485 "Yeah. But there was a specific, I mean I'll, I can probably look at the video at a later stage.'

 Reply "Yes.'

 1485 "And I just wonder whether you can remember what you said' It was quite impactive what you said.'

 00:02:16 Reply "Err, sorry.'

1485 "No' That's okay. Can you recall shortly after that she went running off to the apartment block and she was saying they've taken her''

 Reply "Mm.'

1485 "Is that what you said''

 Reply "Mm, yes.'

1485 "She's taken, they've taken her''

 Reply "She, you know, obviously there's what we've talked about when, you know, it's portrayed in the press about what she said, they've taken her, and that was definitely not, and that was, you know, or unanimous across everyone we'd all said that was not what she first of all said, you know, she's gone was you know the first words that she said.'

1485 "She first said that she's gone''

 Reply "She's gone.'
 
1485 "And then the second time she said''

 Reply "And then, I mean, and then as we were walking up, err and there's you know the exchange of conversation was you know, was they've taken her.'

1485 "Okay. Moving on a little bit to Gerry and Kate, because they like, because you know they're into tennis aren't they''

 Reply "They are.'

1485 "They seem to be playing tennis every day.'

 Reply "Yes.'

1485 "Virtually. Do you know whether they took their own tennis kit out''

 00:03:23 Reply "Err no they didn't.'

1485 "They didn't take the kit out''

 Reply "No.'

 1485 "But when I said''

 Reply "Oh sorry when you say the tennis kit''

1485 "When I say kit.'

 Reply "I'm talking about the, err racquet and b*lls they didn't take.'

1485 "Kit in, you know, kit in general is gonna mean the attire and''

 Reply "Err, did they have any specific tennis gear' You know (inaudible) I don't, I, I don't recall that they had anything specific you know to play, you know, we all have what we ha, call tennis gear you know, not the stuff that you probably go swimming in and you know''
1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "Which was appropriate to wear on a tennis court but they weren't err you know they weren't water goers, you know they weren't interested in the water sports side of things.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "So you know they knew there was the tennis side of it and they'd gone along with the interest of playing, you know, some more tennis.'

1485 "So generally what would they wear to play tennis as far as you can recollect''

 Reply "Err I've got the pictures, err, err yeah again, sorry I can't remember.'

 1485 "Well would it be fair to say it would be t-shirts''

 Reply "Oh yes, yeah.'

1485 "Colours''

 Reply "Err I mean again I think Gerry had a white, a white top err I think he had a, you know, like a polo shirt.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 00:04:36 Reply "Err sleeveless, err I, I keep thinking he's got white trousers err shorts sorry, but I can't remember.'

1485 "What about a kit bag' Would they have a kit bag with them''

 Reply "Err he certainly didn't have a great big tennis bag or a, you know, err I mean I used to be a squash, a semi-professional squash player and you know they certainly didn't have anything that I would call a kit bag from days when I played''

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "You know, a lot of sport, err if they had a rucksack with some water in that would be, you know, about as big as it got, you know a small rucksack. But it certainly wasn't a big tennis, you know, things that you could put a tennis racquet in.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything''

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "It would have been something that had their water in.'

1485 "So as opposed to a bag it'd be something like a rucksack, if at all''

 Reply "If, if at all, yeah.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "And is that the same for Kate''

 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'

00:05:37 1485 "You mentioned early on, on the last interview as well, about a photo. You spoke brief about a photo you'd shown, you'd shown a photo.'

 Reply "Oh yes, I mean''

1485 "Where did that come from''

 Reply "Err where did the photo come from' That's a very good question, err I'm not sure whether it was from Gerry's digital camera or one of the digital cameras that we had there from my recollection. Err but you know, it was, sorry I can't, I can't remember exactly. I seem to remember it was one of the digital cameras but that's about as far as it...'

1485 "Can you remember the pose in which Madeleine was on the photo''

 Reply "Err I can't, no.'

1485 "Did you see the photo''

 Reply "Err I did, yes. I mean Russell err was probably the most instrumental in that side that we, you know he's very good with computers and setting that side up, so he specifically went off err you know to do that. Err you know, I mean we kind of identified early like you know I have, I have seen the picture and, but sorry I can't remember it.'

00:07:03 1485 "Okay.'

 Reply "But Russell was, I say, you know that was where his strengths was and he went down trying to link up the computers and was good at that kind of (inaudible).'

1485 "Where did the com, where did they link the computer up''

 Reply "Err the err originally I thought it had been done in the reception at the Ocean Club, not the Tapas bar, but then I realised it was actually the Tapas bar, err sorry the other reception as you walk through into the Tapas complex err there's a room just on the right there err they'd got a computer and a printer there err that's how they sorted it out.'

1485 "And Russell did that''

 Reply "Russell did that yes.'

1485 "Was that at Gerry's request''

 Reply "My, well it might have been Gerry's or mine, it was something that we, you know, we, you know you're trying to think what we should do in the circumstances and we thought right you know a picture, we've gotta get a picture out because you know everybody didn't know who Madeleine was so if people were searching for her they needed a picture to identify her, but we, you know, we were also convinced that you know she'd been taken and there was a high chance that someone had got transport to take her, given the way that we thought you know she'd been carried off and err you know, we, well if, if, the worst scenario if there was, if someone was gonna move Madeleine away from that area, you know we wanted the, to try and get the, err, the area secured. Therefore they would need a picture to see who, to identify her so it was something that we were, those, those two things we were, you know keen at trying to secure that, you know, the picture was available and err the, you know the roads were closed down in the surrounding areas.'

00:08:40 1485 "How many photos were there''

 Reply "Err again, I don't, I didn't see all the photos but I know there was at least ten that were printed off, but whether there was more than that I couldn't say but I know that there was at least ten available.'

1485 "And they were all of Madeleine''

 Reply "They were.'

1485 "Were they all the same pictures''

 Reply "Err again, I would have to say I think so, I didn't see all the copies.'

1485 "Okay.'

 Reply "But I know that's what, you know, Russell said, again, I think.'

1485 "Right and do you know where they all went''

 Reply "I don't know.'

1485 "Okay. Did you take any photos on the night at the Tapas bar''

 Reply "No I didn't.'

1485 "Did anybody take any photos''

 Reply "Err''

1485 "Before Kate obviously raised the alarm.'

 Reply "Not that I'm aware of. There wasn't, normally we're quite snap happy but err we've only got a few pictures from the second of May, then the third of May and then you know a few days until err so there wasn't a great deal of pictures being taken err you know obviously there was a few here and there, Jane's quite keen on photography, I know she takes some nice pictures and I'd taken some in the play area on the, the, err the night before and we've also got pictures of the, the afternoon from the beach and from the restaurant and then the play area again and there's some pictures of us playing tennis err with the times on, so you know that's about the last pictures that I can recall. I've got our pictures and I've got Dianne's pictures but I've certainly not seen anybody else's err completely.'

00:10:35 1485 "What about the night before' The Wednesday night, did you take any pictures, were any pictures taken then' Or did you see any pictures being taken then''

 Reply "In the evening''

1485 "Yeah, because I understand that you stayed later on the Wednesday night.'

 Reply "We did, yes, err the pictures that I've got, there are some pictures on one of the evenings and I can't say which evening that was.'

1485 "Your camera should''

 Reply "My cameras will have the''

1485 "It'll have''

 Reply "It'll have the date on there.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "But I, you know I can't remember which evening, I thought it was earlier on in the week but err but again it wasn't, it wasn't, you know in the evenings wasn't generally camera time, I don't think people were that bothered really in the evening and that taking pictures, it wasn't...'

1485 "Because it would have all pictures of you huddled together and...'

 Reply "Well it would yeah.'

1485 "(Inaudible).'

 Reply "That was it yeah. I mean as I say there's only like two or three pictures I think we've got from the evening.'

1485 "Right. When you had your beach hour on the Thursday, so you came off windsurfing and then you had food at the beach bar, where was Kate and Gerry''

00:11:52 Reply "Err I mean they certainly weren't at the beach bar err you know there was, as I say it was all parties apart, apart from the MCCANN family and I wasn't aware what they were doing at that, that moment.'

1485 "About, not long after, well before sorry you went, you left''

 Reply "I mean obviously Gerry was playing tennis''

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "Around that time because you know I knew that I was going up to meet with Gerry.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "Sorry, but you know, I'll make that a bit clearer sorry, when we were doing the water sports and that I know at some stage I think we played tennis and that but I couldn't say you know what, or they're in, you know the times we're around there and I knew that Gerry was playing tennis around when we were thinking of going back to, to walk up with him, to play tennis in the evening.'

1485 "So you knew as opposed to seeing them''

 Reply "Well I, I knew Gerry was you know, around that time sorry that he was going to be playing tennis, but I mean I don't know, I couldn't tell you what they were doing earlier on in that afternoon.'

1485 "Yeah. Did you see Kate running along the beach at all''

 Reply "I didn't, no.'

1485 "During that day''

 Reply "No.'

1485 "Around the teatime ish side''

 Reply "Err, again, again I, sorry to say this again but I, I you know she'd been running quite a bit after Madeleine err had gone, and, and again it just gets a little bit patchy and you know, I know I saw her on the beach running, but whether that was after or before I can't remember.'

1485 "(Inaudible.)'

 00:13:25 Reply "That'd be something I'd probably, if I looked at my statement if there's anything in there.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "I would be guided by that. Err I don't''

1485 "So you''

 Reply "I don't think I did, if I, you know if you wanted me to hedge a bet on that one then I'd say more likely I can't remember seeing her running on that, that afternoon but I, I'd prefer to have a look at my statement because I'm sure of at the time of my statement I would have mentioned that.'

1485 "Okay. I'd like you to describe Madeleine to me. What sort of a child she is and you know how you see her.'

 Reply "Mm, err Madeleine's err a very striking err beautiful child, I'd almost if I want a better phrase call her doll-like, you know she was very, you know I think, you know very unique looking child err, she'd got very pretty, you know blonde hair err in a bob, she was quite a petite err child and you know she was very bubbly, very err you know she was a very good child to, to interact with. She was very bright, you could have a lot of fun with Madeleine err and you know she, she was, you know Kate and Gerry's, you know pride and joy. They'd had a lot of trouble conceiving, you know with IVF and everything and you know Madeleine was their miracle. She was obviously very unique with the fact that she'd got the, you know the iris defect err but you know she was certainly a happy go lucky child you know she was, she would interact with the other children very well, as I said on the other, earlier recording, you know she played very happily with Lily and you know indeed the other children. She was, you know, very, she is a very beautiful child and good fun.'

1485 "Mm.'
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 05:52:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2837 on: May 21, 2017, 05:55:PM »
David Payne interview continued...


00:15:30 Reply "You know I, you know a fact I've come across already you know she was a, she's a very bright child you know, she wouldn't be the kind of mischievous child who you know and just try and get out of the flat and you know get up to mischief and that, you know, there's fun in all children but she certainly wasn't that kind of child. She was very bright.'

1485 "Moving on then to the time that you, when you say after the alarm was raised you went into the MCCANN'S apartment. Can you describe the layout of the apartment''

 Reply "If you're going in through the patio doors you walk directly into the, err the living, you know, lounge space. Then if you're going, walking through the apartment towards the front door you have the kitchen on the, err right, which was a small kitchen, which was boxed off from the rest of err open plan living space. If you were walking from the patio doors into the apartment and you were walking towards the front door and turn left you would go towards the bedroom areas. Directly in front of you, you had the bathroom err as you were looking at the bathroom the door to the left would be the, the room where Kate and Gerry stayed and the door to the right was err where the children were sleeping. Err you know there was the double bed in the err Kate and Gerry's room and as you went into err Sean and Amelie's room there was a bed up against the far wall where there was the, you know, was the window. There was another bed parallel to that but across the other side of the room, err along the wall where the door is where you walked into the apartment. In between the two parallel beds was the, err two cots also parallel with the space err between the two of them, and obviously the twins were sleeping in the err cots and then err Madeleine was on the bed which was nearest the door that you walked in to get in there.'

1485 "Okay. When you went in after the alarm was raised what was the bedroom like at that point''

 00:18:01 Reply "Err the, you know again I, it, it wasn't, it wasn't dark, it wasn't really, really dark but it you know my overall impression was the room was fairly dark. The, the children as I said before were still err fast asleep, which again you know we've discussed this you know over the months that Kate and Gerry you know, as all children wake up you know in the night and err you know with all the pandemonium and the shouting, breaking, that they were still you know, fast asleep, and err you know I wouldn't describe that I could see anything in the room like there'd been, you know, clothes thrown around the room or anything and disturbed and you know I, I noticed that the bed was empty that Madeleine was sleeping in. Other people have described that the bed was very neat and tidy but that isn't what, you know, I could confirm.'

1485 "What was the bed like that you can confirm''

 Reply "I, I, you know, I, my note, visual note was she's not there, the twins are there, you know I just ran out and you know was wanting to, you know, run around like a headless chicken and try and do something you know to be helpful.'

00:19:23 1485 "How long do you think you were in that bedroom for''

 Reply "Err as I say when I was there I wasn't actually, hadn't walked in to the whole part of the bedroom, if anything I'd just stepped in to the room just from the, err you know the doorway perhaps just beyond the doorway, but I hadn't you know gone right in to say like where the twins were or in between where the beds were. Err again it's, it's difficult, it's difficult to say because I could have well pop back more than once just, you know, you know with Gerry, you know moving, you know we were moving around so frequently, err I wasn't certainly there for any length of time, whether it'd be a minute, you know that would be something, or that I'd ever stayed at the maximum because there was just so much else.'

 1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "You know going on with people running around etcetera.'

1485 "Throughout the holiday from the twenty eighth till the fifth, or till the third''

 Reply "Mm.'

1485 "How many times do you think you actually went into the MCCANN'S apartment''

 00:20:33 Reply "Err probably more than other people as I said there was the, there was one, there was the incident with the cot where were trying to, you know, had some difficulty with one of the cots that had been provided to err you know so and they'd got the spare cot that you know so I had to go down and pick that up and then I, I popped in there you know some other times as well, I say I probably, in total during the week, I'd have said five, half a dozen times I'd been to that apartment.'

1485 "Okay. Just going back to the phone numbers, do you recall I told, or you mentioned the Portuguese number''

 Reply "Yes.'

1485 "I mentioned to you that they'd sent you, or they sent to your phone a text message on the fourth, which is the following, the next day about twenty past ten, sorry two minutes past ten.'

 Reply "Right.'

1485 "And then eight minutes past ten.'

 Reply "Mm.'

1485 "Did you actually speak to these people''

 Reply "Err''

1485 "In Portugal''

 Reply "The, I mean, the other, there was a, the other person who contacted me which I didn't mention while I was at the Police Station was one of the Portuguese err newspapers and err you know asking, you know for comments and err so that could have been what the, you know, the number. I spoke, I did speak to the other, the friends of Simon ALDRIDGE'S who you know who kindly bought the phones and they actually bought the phones to the Portim' Police Station and I went downstairs and got the phones and then err brought them back upstairs. Err in terms of you know whether I, we spoke to them on the next day sorry, was that the question''

1485 "Well you spoke to them on the next day, the next day yeah that Madeleine went missing, on the fourth.'

 Reply "Right.'

1485 "That's when, well, there's text messages but what I'm asking you is, did you speak to them''

00:22:29 Reply "Err I don't remember having any text conversation with any err Portuguese newspapers so I presume that Portuguese number, they, sorry yeah the other, the, the other Portuguese person I spoke with was err there was err a Solicitor in err Lisbon who err the conversation it may well have been with Lisa LACARNIE because that was a friend of their family who they, they've got a business in the UK but they deal with Portugal and Lisa said if you need any err Portuguese advice then there's err Paolo, and again I've got his number in my other phone which might clarify that bit.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "And err he err and I did speak to him again after that day so it may well have been him just to say oh you know do you want any help, do you want any advice, and err and that you know that's how it was left at that, that stage so that might have been, piecing it together from what you're saying.'

1485 "Do you recall me telling you about the London number, which you couldn't find in your phone''
 Reply "Yes.'

00:24:00 1485 "That number actually transcribes back to the Crime Specialist Director in London.'

 Reply "Mm.'

1485 "Did you contact them''

 Reply "Err I did yes. My, err you know my sister err had been in contact with them and she was trying to do everything that she could knowing the, err, the difficulties that we were having out there so you know I did approach them just asking for advice but err I can't remember, I don't think I actually spoke to anyone there, but for some reason that wasn't carried forward.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "But I mean, you know, just into the context of the conversation you know we're in a strange country, we've got no representeers we don't know what's going on, all hell's broken loose and you know to see whether you can do anything to help Madeleine come back, you know and that was the lines that we were taking.'

1485 "Do you remember who you spoke to''

 Reply "I don't know.'

1485 "The call was made on the following day at twenty three thirteen, so that's late at night.'
 Reply "Mm.'
 
1485 "You don't recollect anything else about the conversation that you had with that, was it you that made the call''

 Reply "Err I, yeah I know that I got phone numbers from my sister which I did you know ring them but I can't remember making one late at night.'

00:25:35 1485 "Okay. Okay just finally we'll come on to the, Kate and Gerry's questions and you may have answered these.'

 Reply "Okay yeah.'

1485 "The first question is an obvious question. How long have you known Gerry and Kate' And what kind of a relationship do you have with the couple''

 Reply "Yeah, err I say Fiona first worked with Kate err at an anaesthetic registrar and I was doing research back in two thousand, err so that's you know we ended up going out err for the night and then you know we're very good friends ever since. Err we went away to err Lanzarote err that was gonna be about two thousand and three, they came to our wedding later in two thousand and three. We went to Majorca with them a year later and again had a very good you know holiday with them there. You know we see them, you know re, you know quite frequently, we've always got on extremely well. Err the more I know Gerry the more I like the guy, err and it works great you know because Fiona has a really good relationship with Kate, I get on really well with Gerry, you know I get on well with Kate as well. Our kids all get on well together and you know we, you know they, you know they are just such lovely people they've got time for absolutely every, anybody and to hear the things that have been said about them again is just, you know it's completely err heartbreaking really because they are, they're just, they are the salt of the earth they really are.'

00:27:42 1485 "Have you ever been at Kate and Gerry's home when their children have been at home' And if so, how many times''

 Reply "Yes, I mean we, err we know them when they were err living at, obviously when they were at Queniborough first, we've known Madeleine ever since, you know she's err been around and we went over to see them in Amsterdam as well and you watched Madeleine, you know, we were all the staying there together then since the twins have been around we've been round as well so we've been many, many times you know when they've been together, you know the children have been there err so yeah.'

1485 "Were your children present as well''

 Reply "Yeah, yeah, you know because obviously between the five children and we've known them ever since, before we've had children and then when each one's come along you know we've always been, you know each family's been pleased for the other family if you like and there's always, you know wanted to be available when you, your children are being born and congratulate and to help and err and so I think you know ever since we've known them and since we had children we've always been around.'

 00:28:55 1485 "And the next question is have you ever been on holiday with them before' Well yes you have.'

 Reply "Mm.'

1485 "How did they take care of the children at night when you went away with them before''

 Reply "Err when err we were, when we were, well when they came to our wedding first of all Madeleine was very young then so you know they kept her you know with them at all times. When we went to err Majorca together it was a big err building you know for, big enough for four couples and the family and we just stayed at that particular err you know farm house, you know all the time really so if, when the kids went to bed we were downstairs. Err they, when we were there they were downstairs so they weren't far away from err you know where we were staying that night and err you know their kids slept very well that holiday and err but you know they were, they were very close by and people were passing by you know just to check on the kids upstairs because we were having a bit more of a problem so you know there was a lot of activity not far away from where their children were, they'd all slept very well in that early part of the evening, well I think through the night generally. So we were very close by err we were, we ate generally in, in the place itself which wasn't many metres away but you know certainly they were very responsible and err you know certainly nothing.'

 00:30:34 1485 "The next question is, how often did you meet Kate and Gerry during the holiday between the twenty eighth and the third' I think we've already covered that haven't we.'

 Reply "Yeah, yeah. Less frequently than probably other people but we all met up, and certainly in the evenings and play time.'

1485 "How often did you see Madeleine''

 Reply "Sorry can I just go back to that''

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "I mean also there was times when we you know did the picking up at the creche, you know Lily was always at the same creche as Sean and Amelie so I would generally meet Gerry you know err when we, when the creche had finished in the morning, when, because that was the only time that err Lily went there so I either, generally saw either Kate or Gerry at that time.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "So that was also another moment that we generally linked up.'

1485 "Well other than, because you played tennis on the third, so other than the third was there any other times that you played tennis with Gerry''

 Reply "Oh yeah, err there was, you know one, one evening err there was a fastest serve evening and we had a bit of fun all trying to err you know out the machine which measured how quickly you served, so you know, that was the evening that we played, I'm sure there must have been another time that we'd had a knock as well.'

00:31:43 1485 "Have you ever felt you had a reason to become concerned about the children''

 Reply "During the holiday or generally' This answer's probably the same anyway to''

1485 "Generally I would think.'

 Reply "No, err you know Kate and Gerry I think it's, they've had you know the twins, it's never difficult, err sorry it's never easy looking after twins, err my sister's got twins and err you know and it was very difficult for them. Madeleine would often get up in the night and go and sleep in the same bed as err Kate and Gerry so I think their sleep patterns were pretty disturbed and I always marvelled at how well, I mean I'd be so much more tired than they were and, and grouchy but they never were. They were never, I, I've never ever seen either of them lose it with, with the kids you know err they, they you know tell them off as any parent does but you know no, not particularly forcefully you know as, you know and they have they've always been such an even keel err that you know you just have to admire how they've brought their, their family up, and children up.'

1485 "When was the first time that you saw Kate and Gerry on that Thursday''

 Reply "Thursday' Again, I can't, you know the only moments I can definitely say is when I saw Gerry before the tennis and then I saw Kate but you know there must have been some other time during the day but I'm not sure.'

 00:33:26 1485 "So seeing Kate in the apartment''

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "Was that the first time that you saw her that day''

 Reply "I, I can't, I can't recall seeing her before that but I'm not saying that I didn't see her.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "Err''

1485 "Well we've covered what time you got to the Tapas bar and who was there, we've covered what Gerry and Kate were doing when you arrived, did you speak to Kate and Gerry' Well you spoke to Gerry didn't you'
How were they behaving generally''

 Reply "Err while we were at the Tapas''

1485 "When you got''

 Reply "Yeah err you know as I said on the earlier err tape that you know I, I'd had one of the best days and you know I was saying that to Gerry and Gerry was going ah you know you wouldn't believe what a brilliant day we've had and you know it's one of the best days he's had there and he was, you know, he, he's someone who is, you know, you know we were saying, you know what a great week it worked out, you know really well you know how ironic you know that's turned out to be but you know that was generally the mood that evening. You know we were coming towards the end of the, err holiday you know it was our last but one night and err yeah it was just a really good, a good mood, you know as I say if that's the only that, that's the only thing that's peculiar about it, you know, but everyone was''

00:34:54 1485 "It's got here, who left the table and why' Well we've discussed that people left the table.'

 Reply "Mm.'

1485 "To go and look after their children, can you think of anybody who went, who left the table that night to other than look after the children''

 Reply "No, I can't, I can't think of any other reason.'

1485 "It's one of the earlier interviews, somebody had mentioned that primarily it was, other than Jane, it was all the males that did all the running about, would that be about right''

 Reply "I mean as I say I remember Matt and Russell going, I remember Gerry going and remember the, you know, Jane you know, err I can't remember whether Rachael left the table or not, but the''

1485 "Dianne''

 Reply "Err I don't think, I don't think Dianne left the table, I don't remember seeing her move.'

1485 "Fiona''

 Reply "No.'

 00:36:07 1485 "Did you see Gerald leaving the table during the meal' Well we discussed that about why and what time, for how long, and, but you said when he returned, did he act any differently when he returned''

 Reply "No, no.'

1485 "And again these are sort of questions relating to the same thing with different individuals.'

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "So when, did you see Jane leave the table' And what time' For how long''

 Reply "Mm, err as I say I can't remember exactly how long people left, the longest anyone left was, was you know I can remember is Russell and again that was because in terms of you know the food issue.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "And err but you know certainly everyone else I don't remember them going for a particularly long time, I'd expect them to walk up to the apartment, look at their, err respective children and then walk back.'

00:37:08 1485 "Obviously that relates as well to Matthew, which you've covered, Russell which you've covered, Kate which you've covered, was that the one and only time that Kate left the table when she came back and raised the alarm'' :)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 06:10:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2838 on: May 21, 2017, 05:59:PM »
David Payne interview continued...


Reply "I believe so.'

1485 "According to your''

 Reply "According to my memory yeah.'

1485 "According your memory. And you described how she looked and you described how she was behaving. Were you shocked about what she'd said''

 Reply "I mean, the, you know the first, you know there's a moment of disbelief you know or you know you look for every plausible, you know, explanation in your mind which just goes through very, you know filters through very quickly you know could this have happened, or you know or what, you know but as I say when she said it and the look on her face it was, you know if a picture told a thousand words then you know. Again, you know, Kate is just so reliable you know she wouldn't come running down and saying, well certainly she's gone and then you know thinking she's wandered off and then as it transpired you know, then you know, what she was telling us after in terms about the gate, but the look on her face and her saying she's gone, it to me implied what had happened without actually hearing anything else, just by the look on her face.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "But you know, again, whether that's also a little bit of retrospectively, you know, (inaudible) on the situation, but I can just remember the look on her face, she's gone.'

00:39:00 1485 "Did you enter the MCCANN apartment' Well you did. Did you enter the children's room' Which you did. You described what you saw, you've said that you saw the twins. Did you notice anything strange about it''

 Reply "Err, as I say, you know about before, the amount of screaming that was going on in the apartment and around and everything that was kicking off and the fact that the two of them could just sleep through it, you know, again, perhaps just take on board saying that you know sometimes you know, they've had their difficulties with Kate and Gerry with them sleeping through and you know it was just very bizarre that they continued to sleep through. Err you know I did notice obviously that, the change in the, you know the blind and the err window, but you know I can't accurately say it like other people did, you know what, how exactly did they find it, I couldn't say.'

1485 "What do you mean the change in the blinds in the window''

 Reply "Well you know it was pointed out, the window was open, the blind's not, you know, err down it's open, you know so those things you know I was made aware of but err as I say I couldn't tell you exactly how far down the blind was or how much the window was open.'

00:40:22 1485 "Did Kate say anything about the window and the shutter''

 Reply "Err I'm sure she did but what she exactly said and you know because we were, you know, the first thing you're trying to do is work out how it could be opened you know, what was, you know, err and you know the discussion whether it be open from the inside or the outside but what she said I can't remember. But also on the back of subsequent discussions that we had about what may have happened, it's difficult to say without, or you know things merge into one.'

1485 "What did you do next' Well you took part in assisting in the apartment then you did some searches with Russell and''

 Reply "Matt.'

1485 "Matthew was saying, and you was with, who were you with' Russell and Matt obviously. Okay, on realising that Madeleine was not found within the first ten minutes, how did Kate react''

 Reply "Err she was distraught and you know (sighs).'

1485 "And the same for Gerry''

 Reply "Yeah, I mean Kate, you know Kate generally, you know more emotional than err Gerry was and then all of a sudden Gerry would breakdown and you know just, you know saying she's gone, you know she's gone, err Kate was more like that on a continual basis throughout the evening. Err Gerry would still try and function in between the moments of you know breaking down and err you know and try to, you know, I had the discussion on with phone and you know what, what we gonna do and err and then, you know, they'd breakdown again, so there was''

00:42:25 1485 "Considering that Madeleine had disappeared, what did you think of their behaviour''
 Reply "(Sighs) I mean it, you know I, whatever, it, it seemed to be appropriate, I've never been in a position to see what people are normally like after, it seemed completely appropriate for what had happened and there wasn't one moment you know that I thought that's, you know oh crikey they've taken that well or you know, you'd expect them to be more upset than that or you know, (inaudible) expected it if you haven't lived through that circumstances.'

1485 "I just want you to think about this one here now, what did you do between, I know you said that you did subsequent searches, but up until ten o' clock the next morning, just tell me what you, just go through your movements.'

 Reply "What, sorry, in the''

1485 "Yeah so you've started to take part in the searches and you've taken part with Matt and Russell.'

 Reply "Mm.'

1485 "You've done a bit of a loop of the''

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "Down to the Supermarket. Just tell me''

 Reply "I mean the''

1485 "You went back, subsequently back to your apartment and then bedtime and then''
 Reply "Yeah I mean my, my, you know a lot of the movements you know the, initially with the sweep that I did straight away round the complex I was on, you know I did that on my own err you know, going up to the room, that bit I did on my own and where I swept down to the beach and walked along you know and shouted for Madeleine and seeing other people as I went along you know that was purely, I was running and I was doing that on my own. Then when I went back to the apartment, then swept up you know at some stage looking up at the, the area above the apartment to the side, looking in the rough err some rough land which was on the way to the err Millennium err where we ate, err and there was err bumped into Dan, he was looking, you know the tennis pro, looking there you know err I say that was another part of the search. In the meantime there was also, you know, discussion with Mark Warner people and the Police immediately outside the, err, the apartment err you know so there was, I can't think of anything else to say.'

00:45:00 1485 "So when did you eventually go back to your apartment''

 Reply "Err''

1485 "To sleep and''

 Reply "To go to sleep' We went back to the apartment about four, four thirty err we slept err you know we'd got err Sean and Amelie err over to the apartment, you know we'd got the bedding done for Kate and Gerry and then we went sleep, we woke up about six, six thirty err and then as I say, err, you know Kate and Gerry were err you know were already awake, not that they'd, you know, they'd slept sorry you know they were still awake and err you know they, they'd been out searching already looking to see what's happening. Again I remember Kate very distraught you know, there was nobody outside the err apartments and you know and it just felt like time was just ticking by and you know nothing, you know appeared to be happening.'

1485 "And then you spoke to Yvonne MARTIN around about nine o' clock you said.'

 Reply "Mm.'

1485 "What did you do up until nine o' clock''

 Reply "Err I remember we were hang, you know I was outside with, you know, with Kate quite a bit err just basically looking, seeing whether anything was happening, err outside, err I say there was, there was the local report and the news journalist who came up as well at some stage, then err then there was a correspondence between you know, with Robert MURAT and the err Police who err arrived and you know trying to find out what was going on. And then, you know, obviously we were gonna be going to the err Portim' Police Station and then you know we were waiting obviously for that to happen and err that's about it really.'

00:47:03 1485 "Okay when did you leave Portugal''

 Reply "Err we stayed on for about another four weeks err after, err I can't remember the exact err date that we left but towards the end of May.'

1485 "And did you see and meet Kate and Gerry''

 Reply "Yeah, I mean''

1485 "During that time.'

 Reply "I mean we, we, we tended to find that the best time to meet up with them was err in the evenings, that was you know they were trying to get through a hell of a lot of work, Gerry was you know, you know working away, was trying to err you know get things going and you know corresponding and ringing people and err the err the, the Police, err the liaison team who came out from Leicester you know when they initially came out I, you know I hooked up with Kate and Gerry and was you know part for the early meetings but then err Mike, you know Kate's cousin, and err Johnny, you know they came out and they were, you know they were, spent a lot of their time around (inaudible) and then Trish and Sandy,

so they ended up getting a very good team of people immediately around them who, you know, they certainly wanted their, their help from whether it be a practical err level err or advice, then you know they'd got, so we were just really felt that you know at the end of the day was the most appropriate time to catch up with them. I mean obviously, you know, the, the televised, you know when we went to the err church with err you know Kate and Gerry and err the rest of the group err so you know probably out of the, of the other couples there we, you know we tended to meet up most of the time in the evenings and then we would you know go back to the, err, the rest of the group and just, you know and try and give some information about what had happened to Madeleine you know. That's what everything was about you know, what's going on you know, was there any information you know, and, we tended you know to watch a lot of Sky news just to try and get any information that we possibly could about what was going on, err so that was kind of the main contact we had with them. Err probably around less than a week, or around a week after Madeleine had gone, you know we all met up as err a group and I think in our apartment they, you know wanted to just touch base with everybody you know we, we'd all been through that experience and Kate and Gerry wanted to you know, again in the, in the depths of despair that they would just see how everyone else was and just you know err, err, and just you know there was a real camaraderie, you know, mix of people who were there.'

00:49:55 1485 "Did the original group all stay till the same time as you''

 Reply "No we, we decided that we would stay out longer than err the other, you know Matt and Rachael and Russell and Jane, we didn't think it was a, certainly it was appropriate that we all left together, it you know, I think no-one wanted to really leave, they wanted to stay there as long as they could and you know, and be a support for err Kate and Gerry but I think obviously you know, I think other events were taking over and really we, you know we were just, you know super, superfluous for requirements and it was just like groundhog day, we were just doing the same thing, you know every day, get up and then wait till the end of the day and err you know I think certainly others felt it was import, you know that as a, as a stage that they'd reached where they felt it was appropriate to leave. We certainly wanted to stay longer, you know, we were the, the main friends for Kate and Gerry out the group there and err we wanted to provide as much support as we, as we could and I think the other thing was that Gerry ended up coming back to the UK and we felt that it was a good time, you know, to support Kate and be there while he'd gone so that not everyone had gone.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 00:51:14 Reply "Err because we felt that the people who had been through that experience were the only ones who could really know what it was it was like and err so you know and that's the spot that we felt the bond, you know, with Kate and so we waited till he'd done that and then it seemed like err the right time for us to, to leave.

1485 "We're not far off now, during the holiday did you see Kate and Gerry speak to anybody unknown to yourself''

 Reply "At the, after Madeleine had gone or before''

1485 "Before, before.'

 Reply "Before, err they, they made friends with other people who were in the complex err who you know we don't necessarily, we didn't perhaps necessarily know they were at the time but as, as the week went on you know it was obvious who they were and err you know these were people that they were playing tennis with who they'd had lessons with err apart from that, you know, obviously all, all the nannies we got to know err there was no-one, you know there was a few people who were slightly more in the periphery who were the holiday makers there that we didn't speak to as much, I might have seen Gerry speaking to them but you knew them, they were primarily, you know, people from the complex who were on holiday there. Err so there's nobody you know you wouldn't expect them to be talking with on a, on a holiday.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "In that, in the situation.'

00:52:56 1485 "Did you see them in a car at all whilst you were in Portugal, prior to Madeleine disappearing''

 Reply "Err we all arrived you know at Praia Da Luz initially in the taxi err apart from that I can't really recall.'

1485 "That's it.'

 Reply "I can't recall err seeing you know err going anywhere in a car.'

 1485 "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth''

 Reply "Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up.'

1485 "Okay. And finally, Mr PRIOR touched on the re-enactment earlier on, I think the re-re-enactment's likely to take place either at the end of April or sometime in the middle of May. Do you see yourself attending''

00:54:14 Reply "I will do anything in my powers that could be helpful to shed light on what happened to Madeleine or bring Madeleine back, or to change the status that Kate and Gerry find themselves in. Though saying that, we have concerns regarding going back err for a re-enactment and those points that we have you know raised in a letter which I believe is being forwarded to the Portuguese Police. Err what we would like to see is you know some detailed answers to those points and we would also like to know that everyone else is taking part in the re-enactment because if everyone wasn't there then it doesn't seem that its particularly err worthwhile and obviously you know, problems with the press, you know, which would become very prominent the past twenty four hours, you know I think we would certainly want some reassurances err to you know, just, it'll address people to look at the letter that we all sent and if you're kind enough to answer those in detail then that is a, you know, an answer that we would make in light of what the response was to those points.'

1485 "Okay.'

 Reply "But I wouldn't rule anything out.'

1485 "Okay. Is there anything else at this particular moment that you'd like to say''

 Reply "No.'

1485 "Okay. I make the time err sixteen twenty five.'

 00:55:53 Male knocks at the door, DC MESSIAH leaves the interview room.

 00:57:01 DC MESSIAH re-enters the interview room.

 1485 "Just one quick question David, just, you know the, we talked about the phones earlier on.'

 Reply "Yes.'

1485 "The number **, did you find that in your phone''

 Reply "Err I, I'll have another look but I don't think I did.'

1485 "Can you just have another look''

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "So its **''

1485 "Yeah.'

 00:58:06 Reply "Err I can't see it' I can't see it in this phone no.'

1485 "Does the name SG mean anything to you''

 Reply "It does yeah, that's my, err brother in-law, my other brother in-law, well my sister, sister's husband.'

1485 "And where does he live''

 Reply "Err he lives, the, the phone number which you've got which is the **.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "That's, err, he lives there.'

1485 "Market Harborough''

 Reply "Market Harborough yes, and sometimes it is easier just to chat and, you know if they were out and about on his mobile, he uses that one more, so I'm more likely to chat with my sister.'

1485 "Does he work in London at all''

 Reply "He does yes.'

1485 "And obviously the calls on the fourth of the fifth at eight o nine and at nine fifty one and at ten fifteen, ten sixteen I beg your pardon, on the fourth, two calls and one text message. What, can you remember what the nature of those calls were''

 Reply "Err what to S, to Ss phone''

1485 "Yeah.'

 Reply "Err''

1485 "Or S called you I believe.'

 Reply "Yeah, err I mean, the general gist of it was how, you know how are you doing you know what's going on, err and is there any help that you know you can have, you know that was generally the gist of the text and things. I mean I can find exactly, if I can find them on my phone or I can let you have them, but you know it was just obviously my sister, she was very concerned and she was doing everything that she could to be supportive towards obviously Kate and Gerry.'

1485 "Okay, well thanks for that. Okay then, I'm gonna switch the tapes off now, it's now sixteen thirty, just (inaudible) sixteen thirty.'
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 06:18:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2839 on: May 21, 2017, 06:01:PM »
David Payne interview continued...
 

01:00:40 Male knocks at the door, DC MESSIAH leaves the interview room.

 01:02:37 DC MESSIAH re-enters the room.

 1485 "You thought we'd finished didn't you.'

 Reply "I know.'

1485 "(Laughs)'

 Reply "Not quite.'

1485 "Not quite, no. Not long now to go. Okay, I'm just gonna go over these, this phone issue again.'

 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'

1485 "I just, there's just some areas that I've been asked to point out, or been asked to speak to you about.'

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "Who lent you these phones that SA had organised for you''

 Reply "Err I mean, S brother err is a gentleman called N and N's wife N had got friends out in the Algarve and they were just you know basic people who were just willing to help us in whatever capacity it was, whether we wanted a room for the night or anything and they asked is there anything we can do, err whether they could do, and err and that was, you know, that was one thing we said well actually you know err Kate's phone's nearly ran out, we're sat, we don't know how long we're gonna be at the Police Station you know could, you know, can they, you know is there any way of getting phones to us just so that you know, we can, for communication. Err and err so that was, that was a capacity really err of people.'

01:04:02 1485 "And where were these phones, when did these phones arrive''

 Reply "Err when did we get the phones' When we were at the Police Station, err you know as, you know I just asked whether I could just pop downstairs there was someone who's brought us phones and they said yeah, so I quickly popped downstairs, got the phones, and took them back into the Police Station. Err I can't remember if there was any power in them when we opened them up but err so then that was, you know, so the phones were just, you know because we hadn't got any other, anything there, so.'

1485 "And what phones were they' Do you remember what sort of, what make they were''
 Reply "Err they were Samsung phones, err and I think they were Vodaphone SIM cards. Err the actual model, I can't tell you the Samsung phone but they were, something like the Samsung three hundred, something like that.'

1485 "Yeah, how many phones were there''

 Reply "There was, there was two err and we ended up, err again, we ended up keeping one and Kate and Gerry had one, I think we gave the second one to Kate and Gerry as well after a while but we were err you know because they'd got credit put on to them so we were just using those phones rather than run up the expense of our own phones.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 01:05:33 Reply "So err yeah.'

1485 "So the two phones, you've kept one and gave one to Kate and Gerry''

 Reply "Kate and Gerry yeah.'

1485 "And do you have the numbers of those phones in your phone''

 Reply "I don't, no, no.'

1485 "Where are these phones now''

 Reply "Err as far as I am aware that they, you know, remained in Portugal, again''

1485 "With whom'

 Reply "With Kate and Gerry.'

1485 "So Kate and Gerry took possession of that second phone which you had''

 Reply "Well, they certainly kept the first one, the second one, the second one, sorry, no I think that's rubbish. I think I, I may well have got the, I might have got the second phone. Actually I've got a sneaky feeling when I got home I tried the UK SIM card in it and it didn't work so I could well have got the second phone.'

1485 "So is it likely that this second phone is at your home address''

 Reply "Err that is a strong possibility.'

1485 "So two Samsung phones.'

 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'

1485 "One is, to your knowledge, still with Kate and Gerry.'

 Reply "Yeah.'

 1485 "The other one you may well have at your home address.'

 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'

1485 "Did you use the phones often''

 Reply "Not''

1485 "In Portugal''

 Reply "Not a great deal no, no, it was, it was, first of all you know we didn't have any numbers in them already and then with being a Portuguese phone you know it was just a bit more difficult so we, if we ever used them, I mean which wasn't often, we'd perhaps call Kate and Gerry using the Portuguese phone, but it wasn't a kind of religious oh we'll just use the, that Portuguese phone to err you know establish communication.'

1485 "Yeah.'

 01:07:23 Reply "Err you know and the other reason that we, we had the, one of the phones is because Fiona didn't have a phone either so you know, so it's like she had the use of the other phone as well.'

1485 "Right, so out of the two of you then, who predominantly used that phone''

 Reply "I'd say Fiona.'

1485 "Fiona''

 Reply "Yeah.'

1485 "And has it been used since it's been in the UK''

 Reply "No.'

1485 "Okay, okay.'

 Reply "And I'm just trying to think you know how much, you know the, the, I can't remember you know obviously we were there for four weeks after but when the actual credit ran out, because I remember the credit running out and not being able to actually put anymore on even though it's supposed to be quite straight forward but again, you know whether that was after, you know, three weeks of being out there or whatever I can't remember.'

1485 "Yeah, how many times do you think you topped it up then''

 Reply "I don't, I don't think we did, I don't think I did. I don't think I could work out how to do it to be honest.'

1485 "So when both of them arrived both of them had credit on them''

 Reply "They put, I think they put, I think err I think they put forty pound credit or forty euros, you know, which seemed to last a lot longer than the amount of credit we were (inaudible) we were using our own err mobile phones.'

 1485 "Just wait there a second I'll just (inaudible).'

 Reply "Okay.'

 01:08:40 DC MESSIAH leaves the interview room.

 01:09:00 DC MESSIAH re-enters the interview room.

1485 "All done.'

 Reply "Okay.'

1485 "The phone, is it likely that I could collect it when I take you home''

 Reply "I can certainly have a look for it and I can give you, I mean if you, if you wanted to have my other mobile phone with all the numbers in and you know if you can access text messages on that you're welcome to have that phone.'

1485 "Okay, do you know where you'd be able to put your hand on it if you''

 Reply "Err the Samsung one, again, there was a Vodaphone bag that was knocking around, and that would be where it is if err I can find it. Fiona might know.'

1485 "Okay, perhaps you could give her a call or something.'

 Reply "Yeah, yeah.'

1485 "Alright then, it's now sixteen forty on this date.'

 01:09:48 The interview ceased at 1640 hours when the tape recorder was switched off.

 SIGNATURE (Sgd)
 SLS
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:55:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2840 on: May 21, 2017, 08:03:PM »
Gerald McCann witness statement...


Processos Vol I Pages 34  to 39
 
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Witness Statement

Gerald Patrick McCann

Date: 2007/05/04

Time 11.15

He comes to the process as a participant and offended party, as the girl's father. Being of British nationality he does not speak Portuguese and is assisted by the interpreter Natalia de Almeida.

When asked he says that he had been in Portugal previously in 1994, staying in an apartment near to Albufeira. This is the first time he has returned to Portugal.

His desire to know Portugal in 1994 was due to the fact of playing golf, as our country is known for the excellent conditions for practising this sport. On this occasion, the trip was proposed by one of his friends who accompanied him, David Payne, who upon searching in Internet, made a reservation at the OC, P da L, Lagos, for the witness, his wife and the rest of the group, a total of nine adults and 8 children, including his daughter Madeleine, this group consists of people he has known for 5 or 6 years.

In this way they travelled in two separate groups, one of the groups being the witness, his wife Kate and three children and other group consisting of David with his wife, mother in law and two children. The witness left from the local airport (Leicestershire) and the other group left from London and consisted of four adults and three children.

The meeting point was in Portugal, at the OC, where his group arrived at about 14.30 on 28th April 2007, arriving from Faro airport in a small minibus provided by the airport services. The other group also arrived on the same day at about 13.00, also by means of a minibus.

After checking in, the witness and his family were accommodated in apartment G5 A, the family nucleus consisting of the witness, his wife Kate, his daughter Madeleine and a couple of twins aged two, Sean and Amelie. The apartment consisted of two beds in one bedroom, another two beds in another bedroom and two cots provided by the resort, as well as a WC and kitchen.

The witness and his wife slept in one of the bedrooms and the three children in the other, the twins in the cots and Madeleine in a bed, leaving the remaining bed empty.

Between the 28th April, the day they arrived and the time the disappearance was discovered, he says that nothing unusual happened, only referring to an episode on the morning of the 3rd May, when Madeleine asked the witness the reason why they had not gone to her room when the twins were crying. As he did not hear anything, the witness did not go to the bedroom, however he finds his daughter's comment to be strange, maybe because it was the first time that she had made it.

As regards routines, he says that on Sunday they had breakfast between 07.30 and 08.30 at the OC Bar at a few metres distance from the apartment. During the following days, because of the fact that the bar was quite far away, they began to buy food at a supermarket situated in the same street as the apartment, he cannot remember the name of the supermarket and they would have breakfast in the apartment. After breakfast the children would stay in the resort crèche, called the Kid Club, doing various activities such as painting and collage, etc, until about 12.30, they were always supervised by various members of staff, in a ratio of one member of staff to every three children. At this time - 12.30 - the parents would collect the children and have lunch in the apartment, which had a kitchen. When lunch was finished, at about 13.30, the children would stay at the Club pool, supervised by the parents, for about 45 minutes, where they would relax and put on sun screen, etc. Afterwards, they would take the children back to the Kid Club until about 17.00, when the children would have dinner at the bar, under the attentive eye of their parents. After dinner at 17.00, they would bath the children and get them ready for the night and play with them for a few moments in the recreation area near the tennis courts, always supervised by the parents. At about 19.30 - 20.00 the children were put to bed until the following morning when the routine described would begin.

Whilst the children were at the Kids Club, the witness would play tennis with his wife, go for walks, read and go jogging.

Yesterday, after their daily routine, Madeleine and the twins went to their bedroom "and were placed in their respective beds and he stresses they were placed together [i.e. in the same bedroom], at about 19.30."
The witness and his wife, between this time and 20.30 stayed in the apartment relaxing and drinking a glass of wine. After 20.30, the witness and his wife, after looking at the children, went to the Tapas Bar, about 50 metres away, where they had dinner. As usual, every half hour and as the restaurant was near, the witness or his wife, would check whether the children were all right. In this way, at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked, went to his children's bedroom and checked that the twins were fine, as was Madeleine. "He then went to the WC" where he remained for a few moments, left, and bumped into a person he had played tennis with and who had a child's push chair, he was also British, he had a short conversation with him, "returning after that to the restaurant." At about 21.30 his friend Matt (member of the group) went to the apartment, where his children were and on his way went to the witness' apartment, entering by means of a glass sliding door that was always unlocked and was located laterally to the building. He entered the bedroom, he observed the twins and he did not even notice whether Madeleine was there"

[Notes on the three crucial words in this last sentence: "nem sequer reparou"

- "nem sequer" means "not even";

- Verb "reparar" (in this context):  to notice, to observe, to see, to take notice of, to pay attention to, to mind, to look out]

as everything was calm, the shutters were closed and the door to the bedroom was ajar as usual. "After that Matt returned to the restaurant."

At about 22.00 it was his wife Kate who went to check on the children. She entered the apartment by the door using the key and saw immediately that the door to the children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the blinds were raised and the curtains were drawn open.

The side door leading to the living room was closed, which as previously stated, was never left locked. Faced with this troubling situation, Kate checked that the twins were in their beds, unlike Madeleine, who had disappeared. After checking the apartment thoroughly, his wife, quite shocked and upset, went to the restaurant, alerting the witness and the others about the disappearance. Immediately the group rapidly went to the club, "searched all the accommodations/lodgings,  swimming pool, tennis courts, etc. and the apartment, with the help of staff "at the same time that they contacted the authorities who would come to put in an appearance."

It is emphasised that one of the members of the group, Jane, at about 21.10 - 21.15 when she was going to her apartment to check on her children, she saw from the back, at a distance of about 50 metres, on the road bordering the club, an individual

[Notes on the three crucial words in this last sentence: "visualizou pela rectaguarda"

- Verb "visualizar": to visualise (also used in the sense of 'to see')

- "pela" is the contraction or "por" + "a": 'by + the' or 'from + the'

- "rectguarda" (more correctly spelled as "retaguarda"): rear, back, tail, end; (military: rearguard);]  carrying a child, wearing pyjamas, Jane will be able to clarify this situation.

With regard to Madeleine, he describes her as being of Caucasian race, with quite white skin, four years old (12-05-2003), almost 90 cm in height. She has a slim build

dark blond hair which is straight and shoulder length. Her left eye is blue and green and her right eye is green with a brown mark in the pupil. She has a small brown birthmark ,on the knee of her left leg

he does not remember any others. She did not have any scars. At the time of her disappearance she was wearing pyjamas, the trousers were white with a floral pattern, and the short-sleeved top was predominantly pink and there was a blue and grey figure of a donkey on the front, with the inscription "Eeyore".


As regards personality, the child was extrovert, very active, talkative, alert with an easy relationship with other children. He also says that she would never go with a stranger.

He has no suspects to point out, he cannot find any motive for such an act, as neither he nor his wife has any enemies.

He adds that his daughter is not suffering from any illness or take any medication.

When asked, he says that he authorises a reading of the recorded data of his mobile phone no. 00***7869***88.

Apart from the Kid Club and the apartment they only went to the beach with Madeleine and the other children once and for a short time as the weather conditions were unstable. At the beach they just ate an ice cream and then returned to the apartment. In addition to what he has described, on the Wednesday or Thursday, Madeleine and the other children went sailing along the beach, five minutes on foot away from the Club for an hour, organised by the resort, an activity that has an available chart. The supervision and organisation of this activity is the responsibility of the Club, which is why neither the witness nor his wife were present.

He never saw any strange behaviour during these. days nor anything that had led him to such a conclusion."

When he was shown a list of the Club's guests he says he only recognises the names of the members of the group.

He never detected that any object had disappeared.

He has no other elements to bring to the process, desiring the appropriate criminal procedure and (the person) caught for the act he was a victim of.

No more is said. Reads, ratifies, signs.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 08:08:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2841 on: May 21, 2017, 08:11:PM »
Gerald McCanns witness statement...


891 to 903 Witness statement of Gerry McCann 2007.05.10

TRANSLATION BY ALBYM

Important note: The following text inserted in brackets into Gerry McCanns statement [with no way to tell the time], has now been removed to eliminate any confusion. The bracketed text is the translators note, and not part of the original statement.   

Text before removal: Half and hour later, without anything to signal [with no way to tell the time], it being 22h03

Text now reads: Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03
04-Processo 4 Pages 891 to 903 Gerald McCann 10 May 2007
 
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He is part of this case in the form of a participant and an offended party, as the father of the minor MADELEINE. Being a British national who does not know the Portuguese language, oral or written, the interpreter Alice Dias Homem de Gouveia Avakoff is therefore present.

----- That he confirms the truth of the statements made previously on 4 May 2007 he being available here to provide any further clarifications.

----- Asked, he clarifies that, with regard to the personal photos already delivered by him to the authorities after the disappearance of his daughter MADELEINE, he has no others in his power [possession]. He adds that it is his wife KATE who usually takes pictures, he does not recall if on this holiday any were taken at night.

------ As he was asked he relates that, in January 2003 he went to Lanzarote in Spain with Fp and DP where they spent a week's holiday not having any children at that time, although KATE was 6 months pregnant with MADELEINE, through IVF. Still in 2003, September, he went to Umbria, Italy, with KATE, MATHEW and RACHEL, and RUSSELL and JANE for a week's holiday where they attended FIONA and DAVID's wedding. The deponent clarifies that the trip to Lanzarote was organised by himself as he had been there the previous year with KATE and they had enjoyed it very much, whereas the trip to Italy was arranged by FIONA and DAVID given that it was for their wedding.

----- Relating to the events in Portugal, as already stated in his previous statements, he arrived at Faro airport on 28 April 2007 at 12h30 having travelled immediately to OCEAN CLUB in an airport mini-bus where he arrived at 14h20/14h30.

----- That he was taken to the OCEAN CLUB reception where, doing the check-in, he furnished his documents, those of KATE and of his three children. He was then given the key to apartment A5, the choice of that apartment having been made at random by OCEAN CLUB management, given that, as he understood it, not even DP had been given a choice although he had dealt directly with the reservations.

----- He adds that the only stipulation by the group was that the apartments had to be close to one another because, contrary to the tour brochure, the resort did not provide a "baby listening" service, that is, a service in which a group of employees would ?listen? to hear if children were asleep in their apartments while the parents were away. He doesn't know exactly how it works in practice, he never having used it, but he knows that other MARK WARNER resorts use this form of checking, some of his group members having had access to it on previous holidays, though he does not know exactly who. He relates that, for this reason DP decided to use the listening devices (personal intercoms) to monitor his children, though he had not used them on other holidays that they had spent together.

----- That, on the first day, given that they arrived at lunch time, they ate [had eaten] only sandwiches both on the plane and in the bus during the journey from the airport to the OCEAN CLUB. After completing the check-in at the main reception, where they were taken by the mini-bus, that lasted until 15h00, they went to the apartment where they unpacked their bags, that taking until 16h45. Pointing out that after check-in they went with their bags to the apartment by resort mini-bus.

----- Subsequently, at 17h00, the whole group, including children, went to the TAPAS situated at the back of the apartments, next to the pool, to attend a welcoming committee arranged by MARK WARNER where they met with instructors in tennis and sailing and other resort employees, which ended at 18h30, glasses of sangria having been served to them.

----- That that was the first time they walked altogether along the route inside and around the resort. They left by the front door, which he locked with the key, he followed the wall around and turned right, going down the side road to the resort up to the secondary reception where the entered without difficulty as they had an access card that they did not ask for but they had been given during the Check-in.

----- After they passed through the secondary reception they went to the TAPAS restaurant, next to one of the swimming pools, the adults being seated in a covered area outside while the children stayed next to the small pool playing on the [playground] apparatus that was there. That during this time all the adults stood and went to watch the children near where they were. The deponent and his wife alternated in that vigil.

----- The reception committee over, the nine adults and eight children went on foot to the MILLENIUM restaurant. They went back to the secondary reception, turned left and, at the end of the road, turned right up to the main street that led to the restaurant. Because it was a long way, at some time the deponent and his wife picked up and carried the twins in their arms, but not MADELEINE who was always on foot.

----- They arrived at the destination between 18h50 and 19h00 having set themselves up at a large table where they all ate dinner, including the children who were seated between the adults, never leaving the place except for one of the twins who went to the bathroom with the deponent. About an hour later they finished dinner returning, again on foot by the same route, though going wrong in one of the streets where they should have turned left, ending up only turning at the next street. He adds that, as they were all very tired they went directly to the apartment arriving at 20h10/20h15, the route back having been slightly faster given that the twins were carried all the way.

----- In the apartment they bathed the children and gave them a glass of milk putting them down at exactly 20h45, remembering that time because it was exactly one hour later than their usual bedtime. After putting down the children the deponent and his wife took a bath then settled down in the lounge to watch television. He points out that at the moment they arrived at the residence DP invited them to go for a glass of wine after putting down the children but they turned down the offer as they were extremely tired. He thinks that nobody left their apartments on the first night. Asked, he said that in England, when not on holiday, he and his wife would go to bed at 22h30/23h00, the twins at 19h00 and MADELEINE at 19H30.

----- The following day (Sunday) the children woke up at 08h00, he and his wife having woken up at 07h30. They dressed and about 08h40 left the apartment going to the MILLENIUM restaurant, once more on foot and by the same route as the previous night, but without the mistake referred to previously, arriving there at 08h45/09h00. The group did not all arrive at the same time, rather in a phased manner, because they were not all seated at the same table.

----- He thinks that MO and wife RMO did not take breakfast due to the former having spent a bad night with vomiting and diarrhoea. At breakfast the children sat at the same table among the adults, it finished at 09h25.

----- The deponent, his wife and three children went to the OCEAN CLUB by the same route where they arrived at 09h40, the deponent having entered the apartment by the main door, which was locked, collecting a bag with clothing and creams for the children [then] going inside the resort area. The twins stayed at the creche next to the TAPAS, which was for children of two years of age, and then he and KATE took MADELEINE to the other creche for older children situated on the 1st floor at the main reception of the resort, arriving there at 09h50. Besides MADELEINE, only E***, daughter of JANE and RUSSELL went to the same creche. The remaining children being very young stayed at the creche next to the TAPAS.

----- Again she went on foot, leaving the secondary reception she turned right, went down the street passing the supermarket, turning left passing the main reception. After putting the children in their creches they went to the supermarket where they bought [things] for lunch and breakfast.

----- At 12H30, the deponent and KATE first went to pick up MADELEINE and then the twins, going to the apartment. On this day, Sunday, they lunched on the veranda of DP's apartment with the whole group, including children, except for MATHEW, who was ill and at that moment was sleeping on the veranda of his apartment, that was below and to the left in relation to where they were eating lunch.

----- They took the children to the play area next to the pool, where the playground apparatus is, at 14H15, having stayed there until about 14H20. After that time they left the twins in the creche at TAPAS, and either he or KATE, he doesn't know who, took MADELEINE to the creche above the main reception following the route previously described. He clarifies that the drop-off and collection times were recorded at each creche along with the contact number and location of the respective parents.

----- At 17h00 the OCEAN CLUB nursery care workers conducted MADELEINE and the other children in creche on the 1st floor of the main reception to [the area] next to the TAPAS, under awnings, where they [the children] had dinner under the supervision of the employees and, at times, with their parents. The dinner ended at 17h30 the time at which the employee supervision ended and the parents took over watching the children in the play area until 18h30. Following this they returned to the apartment, the deponent opened the main door with his key and, then, the rear door through which KATE and the children entered.

----- The hygiene done, the children were put to bed about 19h30, it being that the deponent and KATE left for dinner at the TAPAS at 20h30. Between 19h30 and 20h30 they took a bath and drank wine, Portuguese or New Zealand, and a beer.

----- That they left the house by the main door, that he was sure he locked, it being that the rear door was also closed and locked. They were the first to arrive at the TAPAS where everyone showed up except only for MATHEW, who was still ill. Though his wife RACHEL showed up for dinner. Except for the situation described above, that occurred during lunch, he did not see MATHEW during the whole of Sunday.

----- Dinner ended at 23h00, during which every half-hour the deponent or KATE went, alternately, to the apartment to confirm that all was well with the children. On that day only the deponent and his wife entered the apartment. He is sure that they always entered through the front door, not knowing [how] to show [demonstrate] that they locked it with a key. Usually they entered the apartment, in which one of the lounge lights was lit, going to the children's bedroom door that was partially open [ajar] and limited themselves to peep inside, trying to hear if the children were crying. The outside blinds were closed with only two or three slats open, the window was closed though now he he is not totally sure if it was locked, and the curtains drawn closed. Ten minutes after dinner ended they had made their way to the apartment, going to sleep soon after.

----- In the following days they always took breakfast at home, shopping the day before, generally maintaining the daily routine described above. When the children were at creche they had tennis classes, KATE at 09h15, he an hour later, from Monday to Thursday.

----- From memory, on Tuesday, 1 May 2007, being shown by RUSSELL, he went to pick up MADELEINE at creche using a short-cut that began at the car park opposite the secondary reception and went between the buildings, which he used to fetch and carry his daughter.

----- Pertaining to the routine, on Tuesday there was a slight change given that after lunch, at 13h30, he and KATE decided to take the three children to Paris da Luz, having gone on foot, taking only the twins in baby carriages. They all left by the main door due to the carriages, went around to the right, down the street of the supermarket and went to the beach along a road directly ahead.

----- They were at the beach for about 20 minutes, the deponent and MADELEINE having paddled in the water. During this time the weather changed with a cloudy sky and cold, they went to an esplanade of a cafe next to the beach, on the left, where they bought five ice-creams and two drinks. Asked, he said that at that place there was an individual playing Latin music on a guitar to whom he intended to give some coins, but having none at the time, he didn't. That the individual had a neglected and careless appearance, unshaven and somewhat shabby [raggedy]. He was Caucasian, 175cm tall, thin, 70 to 75kg in weight, dark, short hair, almost shaven-headed with grey sides, and not wearing glasses. Wearing a light brown-coloured 'kispo' [coat?], with a hood at the back, and dark cotton trousers, not noticing the footwear. He said that he never behaved strangely, nor approached or looked at the children in an ostensible [deliberate/menacing] manner. On returning they left the children at their creches, as usual, the parents having gone to play tennis or went jogging.

----- The day MADELEINE disappeared, Thursday, 3 May 2007, they all woke up at the same time between 07H30 and 08H00. While they were taking breakfast MADELEINE addressed the mother and asked her ?why didn't you come last night when S*** and I were crying??. That he thought this comment very strange given that MADELEINE had never had this kind of talk [had never spoken like this] and, the night before, they had maintained the same system of checking on the children, not having detected anything abnormal. When he questioned her about the comment, she left [withdrew herself] without any explanation.

----- On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007, as well as he and his wife, he thinks that DP also went to his apartment to confirm that his children were well, not having reported to him any abnormal situation with the children. On this day he and KATE had already left the rear door closed, but not locked, to allow entrance by their colleagues to check on the children. He clarifies that the main door was always closed but not necessarily locked with the key. He does not know if the window next to the front door, and that gave access to the children's bedroom, was locked, given that he assumed that the outside blinds could not be opened from the outside. Still on this night, KATE slept in the children's bedroom, in the bed next to the window, because he was snoring.

----- He cannot say exactly, but he thinks that on Monday or Tuesday MADELEINE had slept for some time in his bedroom with KATE as she [K] had told him that one or both twins had cried making much noise.

----- Returning to Thursday, after breakfast, about 09h00, KATE and the children left by the rear door, he having left by the front door, which he locked with the key, having also closed and locked the rear door from the inside.

----- They made their way on foot by the usual route to the creche next to the TAPAS where they left the twins, and, while KATE stayed to play tennis he took MADELEINE to her creche, through the short-cut, where they arrived at 09h15, and , since it was obligatory, he signed the child's attendance register. On returning, not by the short-cut, he went to the supermarket where he bought milk, he presumes, making his way to his apartment, entering by the front door, that was locked by key, when it was 09H40/09H45.

----- He remained at home for about 15 minutes, dressing in tennis clothes, left by the front door, that he did not lock, and made his way to the tennis courts by the usual route, they being next to the TAPAS. He played tennis for an hour with the instructor and other students among whom was an individual he had met during the holiday called "JEZ", and with whom he had established a friendship albeit as a simple acquaintance. "JEZ" has two small children whose exact age he does not know. As to his wife, he had seen her next to the pool but had never spoken with her.

----- The tennis class finished at llH15, he stayed in the pool area talking with his wife and other persons, whom he does not remember. At 12H00, he combined with KATE, as he recalls it, that she would make lunch and he would collect MADELEINE. He thinks that it was KATE who took the twins home. Since it was he who went to collect MADELEINE, he is sure he used the short-cut

----- At 12h30 they started lunch, the meal having lasted an hour until 13h30. After that time they made their way to the resort play area, the deponent left by the front door and the rest of the family by the rear door that, once again, he shut and locked from the inside. As to the front door, he does not know exactly if he locked it.

----- That they stayed in the play area for approximately an hour until 14H30/14H35. After that they left the twins next to the creche at the TAPAS, they signed the register and the three (deponent, KATE and MADELEINE) made their way to the creche at the main reception, where they arrived at 14H50 and delivered MADELEINE, not being able to say precisely who signed the register.

----- The deponent and KATE returned to the OCEAN CLUB by the short-cut and at the secondary reception they asked the lady employee if there was a vacant tennis court they could reserve. They were told there was a vacancy between 14H30 to 15H30. As it was already 15h00, they began to play immediately. At 15H30, the tennis instructor arrived, who instructed each of them until 16H30.

----- The stayed in that place, talking, until 16H45 at which time the twins went to the meal area. At 17h00, as usual, MADELEINE arrived accompanied by the teachers and the other children. After her arrival, MADELEINE ate, [the meal] having ended at 17H30.

------ After 17H30 they went to the apartment, the deponent having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. KATE and the children entered by the rear door, after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent.

------ That they bathed the children, the deponent having left at 18H00 for a tennis game only for men, at which were: DAN, tennis instructor; JULIAN, with whom he had played tennis several times; and CURTIS, with whom he had also played.

------ During the afternoon of that day the rest of the group members, including the children, were at the beach, [they] having returned at 18H30, the time at which he saw DP next to the tennis court. DAVID went to visit KATE and the children and returned close to 19H00, trying to convince the deponent to continue to play tennis, to which [entreaty] he did not accede as he had already been plying for about an hour and had to go back to to his wife. Nevertheless, RUSSELL, DAVID and MATHEW stayed to play.

----- At 19H00, he made his way to the apartment, finding KATE and the children playing on the sofa. About 10 to 15 minutes later, they took the children to the bedroom and they all sat on MADELEINE'S bed to read a story. At 19H30, the twins were already in their respective cots and MADELEINE in the bed next to the bedroom door. He does not know if they were asleep but from the silence he presumed that they were. As it was still early he took a bath, he thinks that KATE had already had one, they talked a little and drank wine or beer.

----- At 20H35, they left the apartment in the direction of the TAPAS. Before they left and because the children's bedroom door was ajar as always, he opened it a little more, listening from the outside and, as there was complete silence he did not enter, returning the door to its previous position, with a space of about 10cm.

----- He is certain that, before leaving home the children's bedroom was totally dark, with the window closed, but he does not know it was locked, the external blinds closed but with some slats open, and the curtains also drawn closed. Asked, he relates that during the night the artificial light coming in from the outside is very weak, because, without a light being on in the lounge or the kitchen, the visibility inside the bedroom is much reduced. Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE by the rear door which he consequently closed but did not lock given that that is only possible from the inside. Referring to the front door, while he is certain that it was closed it is unlikely that it was locked as [because] they had left by the rear door.

----- They took the usual route to the TAPAS, where they arrived a little after 20H35, not having passed on the route anyone known nor detected anything abnormal. Asked, he said that the dinner bookings were made since Monday, it was already the intention of the group to take their meals there. They were the first of the group to arrive seating themselves at the biggest table, as usual, that was situated in the middle between other tables under an awning with a transparent plastic surface at the front. He relates that they were seated at the table in a position that allowed the deponent to see almost the entire rear door of his apartment through which they left and entered and which gave access to the lounge.

----- Before that, among the other people whom he does not recall, there was at one of the small tables the CARPENTER couple, who he also met playing tennis and with whom he spoke until other group members began to arrive. He does not recall the order of arrival but has the idea that MATHEW and RACHEL had been the first to arrive after him. As time passed other group members were arriving until all nine adults [were there]. At 21H00, MATHEW stood up from the table saying that he would go to see the children. But he did not say that he would go to see the children of the deponent, only after the disappearance of MADELEINE he [MO] having told him [GM] that at 21h00 the external blinds of the children's bedroom window were shut. At 21H05 MATHEW returned, the time at which the deponent left the table to go to check how his children were.

----- He followed the normal route up to the rear door, which being open he only had to move [slide] it, that being the way in which he entered [was entering] the lounge, he noted that the children's bedroom door was not ajar as he had left it but half-way open, which he thought strange, having then put together the thought of MADELEINE having got up to go to sleep in his bedroom so as to avoid the noise produced [created] by her siblings. In this way he entered the children's bedroom and established visual contact with each of them, checking and is certain of this, that the three were sleeping deeply. He left the children's bedroom returning to place the door how he had already previously described, [then] going to the bathroom. Everything else was normal, the blinds, curtains and windows closed, very dark, there only being the light that came from the lounge.

----- He adds that he never entered any other part of the residence [his bedroom or the kitchen] where he was for only two or three minutes, leaving yet again through the rear door that he closed but did not lock. He clarifies that he returned without seeing the children of any other family because he had not been asked to by them.

----- After going through the side gate, and while on his way to the secondary reception entrance, less than 10 metres from the gate, he saw JEZ coming up the street on the opposite pavement bring with him a baby carriage with his youngest child. He crossed the road in JEZ's direction who would come up on the right-hand side [when viewed] from the ascending direction, both having chatted for 3 to 4 minutes, about tennis, holidays and children. While he maintained the conversation with JEZ he saw no-one from the group, nor detected any suspicious individual or vehicle. Because he had been specifically asked, he relates that during this period of time he did not see with certainty JANE pass that location, although it is clear that he was speaking when in front of JEZ, his back to the other pathway on which his apartment is situated. He relates also that JEZ never said to him that he had seen any person given that he was in front.

----- Following on, he returned to the TAPAS between 21h10 and 21h15 the dinner having gone as normal. As the movement of people at the table was frequent he does not know if, when he returned, anyone else was absent, namely JANE. At 21h30 he drew KATE'S attention to the fact that it was time for her to go to see the children, MATHEW having immediately volunteered to substitute given that she was talking. Three to four minutes later MATHEW returned saying only "it is all calm", he having entered by the rear door, given that he did not have the key and it was usual for them to enter in that way.

----- After MATHEW arrived and before KATE left, he does not recall if anyone else was absent, although it was very probable that such had happened. He thinks that, on that night none of the adults nor children were ill. Asked, he relates that the daughter of RUSSELL and of FIONA would have been ill on Tuesday.

----- Half and hour later without anything to signal, it being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children. She immediately made her way to the apartment by the usual path, she having entered by the rear door. About 10 minutes later, he started to worry about her lateness and, at the moment he prepared to stand and to go to see the reason for her lateness, KATE appeared running, completely distraught and crying, saying that MADELEINE had disappeared and that she was sure because she had looked throughout the house.

----- The deponent ran to the apartment accompanied by the rest of the group who, at the time, were seated at the table. When he arrived at the bedroom he first noticed that the door was completely open, the window was also open on one side, the external blinds almost fully raised, the curtains drawn back, MADELEINE'S bed was empty but the twins continued sleeping in their cribs. He clarifies that according to what KATE told him, that was the scene that she found when she entered the apartment.

----- Then he closed the external blinds, made his way to the outside and tried to open them, which he managed to do, much to his surprise given that he thought that that was only possible from the inside. They continued with searches outside around the various apartment blocks, the deponent having asked MATHEW who went to the secondary reception [where] the event was communicated to the local police, since he had no doubt that his daughter had been kidnapped [abducted]. He refutes, peremptorily, the notion [idea/hypothesis] that MADELEINE could have left the apartment by her own means.

----- The deponent had had the wrong idea that MATHEW had seen the bedroom external blinds closed when he was there at 21H30, the reason for that was that he thought the disappearance would have been happened between 21h30 and 22h00, it being that, actually, he is [?] convinced that the abduction occurred in the period understood to be between his visit at 21h05 and MATHEW'S visit at 21H30. Only about 01h00 on 4 May 2007 did he learn through RUSSELL that his companion, JANE, at 21h10, could have seen an individual crossing the top of the road with a child in his arms, that may or may not have been his daughter MADELEINE. Asked, he relates that he does not recall to have described exactly the type of pyjamas (colour, designs, etc.) that MADELEINE had worn at the time she disappeared. The photo of his daughter MADELEINE, after having printed several in the reception of the hotel, was delivered to the police (PJ) who were at the location, as well as to other persons who were there.

----- Asked, he stated that besides her own apartment MADELEINE only went to the apartment of DP and FP, since it was common that they frequented each others' apartments.

----- That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left [went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges [fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception.

----- He denies peremptorily that anyone of the group could be directly or indirectly involved in the disappearance of his daughter. He presumes that, when his wife alerted him about her disappearance, all the group members were seated at the table. He relates that, also during the dinner, none of the members complained about being ill or manifested any strange behaviour, there was a relaxed atmosphere.

----- During the holidays he did not hire or ask to borrow any motor vehicle, nor had he used a taxi or other form of transport. He clarifies still that the only time MADELEINE accompanied them to the beach was described above, though she had gone to the beach in Luz three more times, one of those to go sailing, but always in the company of creche employees. Two of the visits occurred after the date on which she was there with her parents. That, with respect to those episodes, never was anything said to him by MADELEINE that anything strange had happened.

----- Asked, he relates that on Thursday, 3 May 2007, there was nobody outside the group seated at the table, nor does he know any person with the name IRWIN.

----- With respect to the bed where his daughter was on the night she disappeared he says that she slept uncovered, as usual when she was hot, with the bedclothes folded down. With respect to the other bed next to the window in the children's bedroom he says that it showed no signs that anyone had put their feet on it, namely, dirt or shoe prints.

----- Concerning the half-hourly checking of the children, it had been inspired by the MARK WARNER system called "baby listening", as referred to previously. On the night of the events he ate fish at dinner, and sausages and potatoes as a starter, drinking white wine. Usually, between 20h30 and the end of dinner, they would drink more or less a bottle of wine per person.

----- Asked, he says that KATE never told him anything about her having "a bad feeling [presentiment]" with respect to this trip.

----- He has no suspicion, nor has he any enemies, something that applies equally to his wife, KATE. That, in the course of his profession, he had never committed [made] any error, nor was he guilty of anything, except one time during 2000 in which an unknown individual entered the hospital where he worked, making incoherent threats without justification and calling his name.

Nothing more said ... read, ratified and going to sign
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 08:19:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2842 on: May 21, 2017, 08:23:PM »
Gerald McCann witness statement.


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 GERALD PATRICK MCCANN ' STATEMENT AS AN ARGUIDO
(from DVD)

September 7/2007 16.05 to 20.50  at Portimao

When asked if he wished to reply to the facts which he is being imputed with, he replied:

He is of British nationality, he cannot speak or write Portuguese; therefore an interpreter is present taken from a list provided by the Consulate: ADSR.
Also present Carlos Pinto de Abreu, attorney.

He is present in his capacity as an arguido, and the rights and duties thereof have been explained to him; he is obliged to comply with TIR (Terms of Identity and Residence).

He confirms all of what was stated previously to the Police on two occasions, and has nothing further to add.

After being made aware of the facts attributable to him, he says that he wishes to make a statement.

When asked if he had any responsibility or participation in the disappearance of his daughter Madeleine, he peremptorily denies this.

When asked if on the night of May 1, 2007 he went to have dinner at the Tapas with Kate, he says yes. As customary they would come and check on the children every half hour, usually alternating. They arrived at the Tapas around 20:30, and then went to the apartment every half hour, until they arrived back, at around 23:00, plus or minus 10 minutes. Occasionally one of the others in the group made the check, he does not remember if this happened on the 1st. It is not true that Madeleine had been crying that night for an hour and 15 minutes, because she was not alone all that time.

When questioned, he said that on the day they arrived, April 28, they removed two cribs that were in their room, and placed them in Madeleine's room. He is unable to confirm, but it could be possible, that there were 3 cribs, and they asked them to remove one.

It is not true that on a certain day they placed one crib in their room, leaving the other in Madeleine's room.

He did not remember what days were scheduled for cleaning the apartment.

He now states that he also joined the two single beds in his room, which had been separated by a night table. He transformed the two beds into a double bed.
Regarding the windows, he says they were normally closed, he does not know if they were locked *** blinds also closed. Regarding Madeleine's window he says that he made sure the blinds worked so as to darken the room for the children.

--- On the day of arrival, he does not know if the blinds in Madeleine's room were open or closed. He did not open them again, and does not know if somebody else did. When confronted with a testimony that states having seen the blinds on this window open after their arrival, he says that it was not him who opened them. When asked about the window behind one of the sofas in the living room, he says that yes, he remembers the window but does not remember if the blinds were also closed.

--- Regarding this sofa, he remembers it was next to the window. He is not sure, but thinks that this sofa was probably a bit closer as his children threw objects behind it, mainly playing cards. When asked, he does not know if any of the children was behind the sofa or passed behind this sofa.

--- When asked, he says that on one night, he cannot say which, Madeleine slept in his room in his bed. He thinks it might have been shortly after their arrival at the apartment. Madeleine came to his room saying that Amelie was crying and she couldn't sleep. He thinks that he hadn't heard crying before, and was alerted to this by Madeleine. He does not know if he or his wife comforted Amelie. That night Madeleine slept in his bed.

--- With respect to his wife, he says that on the Wednesday she slept in the children's room in the bed next to the window. He doesn't know why, but thinks it could have been because of his snoring. Also on that day, and after dinner, he returned to the apartment sooner than Kate.

-- Regarding the episode where he spoke to David on the 3rd of May, he says that he was playing tennis at 18:30 when David appeared near the tennis court and asked him if he was going to continue playing. G. said he didn't know because Kate might be needing help to look after the three children, because they intended to bring them to the recreation area after their showers. He thinks that David offered to check if Kate needed help, which he did, and returned minutes later. Regarding his previous statement where he states that David returned half an hour later around 19:00, he says that he returned to the tennis court after half an hour, as this time frame refers to the second time he returned to the tennis court after getting ready for the game.

-- When questioned, he says that Madeleine usually sleeps well at night. During the first months of her life she had some difficulties sleeping due to feeding problems. After moving to their house in Rothley in April 2006, twice a week Madeleine wakened, left her bed and went into their room; this sometimes happened between 23:00 ' 24:00 for no apparent reason, maybe because she was used to sleeping with (*** blank ****).

--- When asked about a chart highlighting the characteristics of the children at the house in Rothley, he says that he does in fact have such an object, where several stars show the nights when Madeleine did not get up, as she was rewarded this way.

--- When questioned if it was therefore safe to leave Madeleine in the apartment if she woke and got up at night, he says that this rarely happened, and then only after her parents were in bed.

--- When questioned about whether the couple's and the childrens' lives were peaceful, namely regarding the work that three children can give a couple as well as the stress this can cause, he replies that in fact since the birth of the twins their life has been very busy, and that especially during the twins' first year life was difficult. He states that since the twins were born, he and Kate have gone out at night only once, leaving the children with relatives. He adds that in spite of this he never saw Kate depressed as a result of too much work. He denies that Kate had changed her work habits for reasons related to depressions. He affirms that his wife never gave him to understand that at some time she had the intention of giving Madeleine into the care of a family member.

When questioned, he says that he works at the Emergency Room of the hospital where he works every 15 days, however he is not usually called out at night, and if this happens then it is once for 4 days prevention. Kate's specialty is general medicine, and works two days a week. After the birth of the twins, Kate did not work for a year, on maternity leave, and currently works part-time as above.

--- When questioned, he states that none of his children takes any kind of medication regularly in England.

--- When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever. He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal.

---- When asked about the time he went to check the children on the night of Madeleine's disappearance, he states remembering that he did it, according to his watch, around 21:04. He remembers that once inside the apartment he thought strange only the fact of the door to the children's room being slightly more open than how the defendant had left it when he and Kate left for dinner. However, he puts the hypothesis of [proposes; suggests] it having been Madeleine opening that door after having woken and having got up, possibly to go to her parents' room. On this occasion the three children were lying in their beds and asleep, he is sure of that. Moreover, he says that with respect to Madeleine she was in the same position in which he had left her at the beginning of the night. Madeleine was lying down on her left side, she was completely uncovered, that is, lying on top of the covers, with the soft toy and the blanket, both pink, next to her head, not knowing if they were placed in the position in which one can see them in the photograph attached to the files.

--- The second person to go and check on the children should have been Kate, but Matt offered to go as he was going to check on his own daughter. When Matt returned to the restaurant G. asked him if all was well; Matt replied that all was quiet. G. is not absolutely sure, but he is under the impression that he asked Matt if he entered their apartment, to which Matt replied yes.

--- The third check was made by Kate at around 22:00. He does not know how long it was before Kate returned, but he does remember that shortly before she returned he was thinking of going to see what was going on, as it seemed a long time and he thought that one of children might have woken up.

--- He does not remember if he had taken his mobile phone to the restaurant. He is under the impression that he did not take anything with him, except maybe his wallet. He was wearing tennis shoes (trainers), blue jeans and a light brown polar top. He does not remember what Kate was wearing that night. The arguido did not take a camera and does not remember if Kate did. He does not remember if anybody in the group took photographs that night.

--- He remembers that after it was known that Madeleine had disappeared he looked for her all over the apartment. He particularly remembers having looked under all the beds, inside the wardrobes in all the rooms at the same time that Kate told him she had looked everywhere.

--- He remembers that at one time the lady who lived in the apartment above theirs, went onto her veranda and asked what was going on. He does not remember specifically who replied to this lady, but he remembers that somebody spoke to her, assuming it was himself who did so.

When questioned, he states that from the first moment, after the first fruitless searches, he thought that Madeleine had been abducted and it was this information that he gave to everyone to whom he spoke. He reached such a conclusion because he did not think it possible that she had gone out on her own or opened the blinds and window in the room.

--- When questioned, he says that on that night he made several phone calls, including calls to two sisters, a couple of Kate's uncles, his brother or certainly sent him a message, father P. S. who baptized Madeleine and married G. and K. When questioned he says he did not get in touch with any media and does not know if anyone did. In the morning his family did contact the press. G. spoke of contacting the press, however he never did so.

--- When questioned he says that he did not request a priest, but to Kate to seek spiritual help.

--- Regarding the disclosure of Madeleine's photograph, he says that he gave the authorities a photograph from a digital camera, and he thinks it was Russell who printed it at the main 24-hour reception of the complex. He made the delivery thereof, or of these pictures on A4 paper to the Police, and he is sure he never delivered any of these photographs to GNR.

--- Around 19:00 the interview was stopped for a rest period, to be recommenced at around 19:40.

--- When questioned if the twins woke while the apartment was being searched, he replies negatively. When they were taken to another apartment he does not know if they woke as he did not take them. When asked, he says that this was not normal, and can find no reason for it happening. He still thought at this moment that the twins might have been drugged by the possible abductor, even if he only mentioned this to the Police several days later. When questioned, he says he never gave his children anything to help them sleep, nor did Kate. When asked why he did not ask the twins what happened to their sister, he says that when the events took place they still did not speak fluently, which is now a normal developmental difficulty. At this point he did not ask them because he thought that they would not have the correct perception of what had happened, in addition to thinking that they would have been sleeping.

--- When asked why instead of scouring the land next to the complex they stayed inside the apartment, he replies that it did not happen that way.

 While the guests and employees of the resort were searching, he went to the main Reception to check whether they had called the Police, and told Kate to wait inside the apartment. After going to the Reception he went back to the apartment where he stayed in the living room and in their bedroom.

--- When asked if he had life insurance, he says that he does, and so does Kate. The children do not have any life insurance, nor are their parents, Gerry and Kate the beneficiaries of any insurance regarding the children.

--- When asked about the contents of the wardrobe in his room that can be seen in the photographs, he says that on top is a suitcase and below a pile of dirty clothes that he cannot make out. This wardrobe was opened to look for Madeleine.

--- When asked if in fact they went to the apartment every half hour, he says it is true, and that this was never created to justify absences during dinner.

--- When asked what the expression 'we let her down' means, he says that it has to do with the fact that they were not present when Madeleine was abducted. It was Kate who first used this expression.

During this interview several films of a forensic nature showing sniffer dogs were shown where their signalling can be seen regarding indication of cadaver odour and traces of blood also human, and only of a human nature, as well as the comments made by the expert in charge of the procedure.

-- After viewing the films and after the signalling of cadaver odour in their room next to the wardrobe and behind the sofa against the window in the living room, he says that he has no comments, neither has he any explanation for this fact.

--- Also, the dog that detects human blood signalled human blood behind the sofa mentioned above, he says that he cannot explain this fact.

-- Regarding the cadaver odour in the car that was rented at the end of May, (xx)-DA-27, he says he cannot explain more than what he already has.

--- Regarding the presence of human blood in the boot of the same vehicle, he says that he has not explanation for this fact.

-- When confronted with the fact that Madeleine's DNA was collected from behind the sofa and in the boot of the vehicle and analyzed by a British laboratory, situations also described before, he says that he cannot explain.

--- When asked if on any occasion Madeleine was injured, he says that he has no comments.

-- When questioned, he says he is the usual driver of the car. In addition to G. the car could also be driven by his wife Kate, sister in law Sandy and a cousin of Kate's by the name Michael.

-- When asked if he has anything to add he says that he has not seen any proof that his daughter Madeleine is dead, and therefore he will continue to search for her in the hopes she is alive. He knows nothing more than what has been said.

-- The lawyer for the defence says he wishes the arguido to be asked again if Madeleine bled. To which he said it was common for Madeleine to have nosebleeds. He says that he doesn't know if in fact his daughter bled while on holiday in Portugal because he does not want to be influenced by the news in the Press, regarding the detection of human blood in the apartment where his daughter disappeared.

-- During this interview the arguido was informed of his duty to respect the secrecy of justice as well as the consequences of not complying with same, stipulated in current law.

--- At around 22:50 the present interview was ended.

--- He says nothing further. After reading the document and finding it to be satisfactory, he confirms and signs it.
-------------------------
Processos Vol X
Page 2577


Policia Judiciaria


Terms of Joining

On this date, due to being considered of interest to the investigation, joined to the files are two cover sheets of a children’s book, with handwritten notes on the inside covers, which were provided to this police force on the night of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann by one of those who feature in the case files and a member of the McCann couple group of friends, named Russell O’Brien.

The present terms of joining was drawn up and will be signed.

Portimão, 9th September 2007.

Signed

Inspector Ricardo Paiva
TO HELP KEEP THIS SITE ON LINE PLEASE CONSIDER
 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 08:27:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2843 on: May 21, 2017, 08:34:PM »
Sergey Malinka witness statement..

 
06_VOLUME_VIa_Page_1454
 
06_VOLUME_VIa_Page_1455
 
06_VOLUME_VIa_Page_1456
 
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06_VOLUME_VIa_Page_1460
 SERGEY MALINKA
Processo, Volume VI, pages 1453-58 (6 pages)

WITNESSES STATEMENT

Date: 2007/05/16 Time: 22:30 Location: DIC Portim'
Officer: John Carlos and Luis Pereira, Inspectors

There is no relationship as envisaged in Art.134, paragraph l of the CPP.
Moves to give evidence.

On the matter of the file he said:

--- He comes to the file as a witness.

--- Although of Russian nationality he fully understands the Portuguese language in its oral and written forms. He has been in Portugal for nearly seven years.

--- He lives with his parents. He has a Portuguese girlfriend.

--- Asked, he said he knows ROBERT MURAT since the summer of last year, he thinks. He came to know him through his neighbour R** A*****, who introduced the witness to ROBERT, claiming that he was a good designer of pages and websites. When speaking with ROBERT, he [RM] explained the type of page that he wanted, and the witness performed the work. It was a page of real estate for sale on the Internet, without resorting to a property firm, whose name was www.romigen.com. After completing the draft he returned to him the copyright, as well as the username and password of the administrator. He recalls that the username was a 1 and the password 123, which were altered by ROBERT. After the delivery of the work, he had three weeks to make alterations, as a page of this size needs few changes after entry onto the net. He knows that this enterprise (Romigen) belonged to ROBERT and to a woman of the name MICHAELA, who hardly interfered, but was always present at meetings.

--- Other than this web site, he did not carry out any other work for ROBERT or for MICHAELA..

--- The meetings to which he refers were carried out in the bedroom in Robert's home at Casa Liliana and in the "Baptista" supermarket, situated in Praia da Luz.

--- He confirms that four years ago, he was at the home of ROBERT at the request of his mother, JANE MURAT (sic), to format her computer, so that the operating system would work faster, and to install an anti-virus. He did not know ROBERT at that time, nor did he know that JANE (sic) was his mother. That this contact was established by the mother through the firm where the witness worked called "125 computers", situated on the EN 125, Mexilhoeira Grande. As his employer failed to pay his salary, he left the firm around three years ago.

--- He has now formed a company called "Sergey Malinka", which is not yet on the Internet, for monetary reasons, since its introduction has high costs.

--- He had solely professional contacts with ROBERT, although RM had invited him to form a joint business, which was refused by the witness.

--- The first contact with ROBERT, as already said, was in last summer, to create the web page, and this occurred near the Church of the Light [the church in PdL], where there was only ROBERT and the witness, he believes at l0H00/11H00. He now alleges that RUI was not present personally, he only gave Robert's phone number to SM. The creation of the Internet page took about three weeks to a month. ROBERT paid him '3000 in total, in two equal installments. The first part of the payment was at the beginning of the work and the second when completed.

--- The second time they met was two or three days later, not knowing where this occurred but thinks it was in the "Baptista" supermarket. He does not have an indication of the time. This second meeting was to show him the page, although not complete, he believes on ROBERT's laptop.

--- Contacts for the meetings were made by mobile phone.

--- The other meetings, he does not know how many, but he claims there had been five or six times, occurred in a space of two or three days, where they gave information to the witness to carry out work on the page, or make changes. These meetings were conducted at his house, in the room opposite the gates, where he had the portable [computer], in the kitchen and in the "Baptista'. He does not know the specific days, but they were between 10H00 and 12H00 and in the afternoon between 18H00 and 21H00. This will have taken place in the summer of the past year. In some of those meetings MICHAELA was present.

--- After completing the page, he knows that ROBERT went to the UK. During the work, he had some problems with ROBERT, of a professional nature, because he demanded changes, and sometimes the witness forgot to perform them.

--- The last time they met was at the request of ROBERT, who called the witness to perform other work and improve the page. The day after the telephone contact he met with him together with MICHAELA. This meeting took place on 30 April 2007, so the contact call occurred on 29th. It was held in the "Baptista" supermarket, about 10H00. It was agreed that the witness would try the page, following indication from ROBERT, the indications being given by email. The witness' email: [e-mail address deleted]. The last telephone contact he had with ROBERT, he believes, was on May 11, when the witness was contacted, he thinks, at 16:00. This contact was to draw the attention of the witness, because the page opened incorrectly. He recalls trying to call ROBERT on 14th, however he [RM] had the appliance disconnected.

--- He describes his days as follows: he wakes at 09H00/10H00, has breakfast and leaves to go to deal with professional matters - visits to customers who have contracts and other clients who sought his services. He does not know the localities, or corresponding times. Usually no lunch, returning home at 18H00/19H00, where he consults his email and calendar. Rarely leaves at night, and when he does, he is accompanied by his girlfriend to go to the cinema or a restaurant. He usually schedules his services the day before he executes them. To travel between services he uses his car "Audi A4, registration 10-xx-xx'.

--- He states that he has all the appointments, with the data/hour and client's name booked [recorded] in his MDA and home computer.

--- Regarding the day 03 May he said that he did not meet, nor spoke with Robert. On this day he followed the routine described above.

--- As for the computers he had at home he said that one of them is his property, without brand, and the other two belong to customers, including a customer from Burgau, but he does not know the name, and another from the firm 'Avenue properties", with offices in Lagos and Praia da Luz. In his car he also had a laptop computer which he bought today in the "People's Radio" brand "Accer", for the sum of '599.

--- Also in Burgau he has a client by the name of "SALLY", a female, who is an aunt or cousin of ROBERT. She has a home called 'Salsalito' near the International School of Burgau. This visit occurred about a week ago, day 08 or 09.

--- With specific reference to the 03 May 2007, the witness confirms to have woken up at his parents' home, between 9 and 10am, having followed his normal professional activity, which is the service and repair of computers. He does not recall which customers were visited, since anything that occurs daily is registered in his MDA.

--- Also he does not recollect having lunch that day. He knows he got home by 18H00. He dined with the family and stayed in his room for the rest of the night, using the computer for games, Messenger, internet and may have carried out some repairs to the equipment of a client.

--- The next day, he learnt about the disappearance of a girl, through an image put in the shop window of a shop near to his house, having asked a member of staff what had happened, who also could not explain to him. He had a day without changes, that is, he did all tasks he had planned to perform.

--- He affirms not to have had any involvement in the efforts that were made by almost all local residents, in the search for the missing girl, named MADELEINE. This was due only to lack of time, since he had much work and could not fail in the commitments to customers.

--- With regard to the telephone contact he received on 03 May 07, at 23:30, made by ROBERT, he affirms that he does not recall having received such a call, but if this actually happened, it will have been to arrange a meeting with the same, for professional reasons.

--- He affirms he is not protecting ROBERT and never to have had the intention to take any kind of responsibility for him, including the activities undertaken for him on the computer.

--- He does not know any thing that can contribute to [finding the] the location of the girl, or for any another kind of explanation of the events under investigation.

--- No other information to provide for the file.

Has nothing further to add. Read, ratifies and will sign
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 08:37:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2844 on: May 21, 2017, 08:39:PM »
Svetlana Malinka witness statement...

 
07_VOLUME_VI1a_Page_1844
 
Svetlana Malinika  - MOTHER OF Sergey Malinka

Process, Volume VII, pages 1843-44 (2 pages)

WITNESS STATEMENT

Date: 2007/06/20 Time: 22h00 Location: DIC Portim'
Officer: Carlos Dordonnat - Inspector

Name: Svetlana Malinika

There is no relationship as envisaged in Art.134, paragraph 1 of the CPP.
Moves to give evidence.

In the matter of the file she said:

--- She comes to these in the capacity of a witness.

--- Because the witness does not know the Portuguese language she is going to be assisted in this act by the Russian-speaking interpreter Mrs. Galina Lxxxx in this DIC.

--- The witness has been in Portugal since August 1999, having always resided in Praia da Luz - Lagos.

--- For approximately 5 or 6 years the witness works in the firm Blue Ocean, which undertakes cleaning work in the area of Praia da Luz and specifically in the area of the Ocean Club where the company performs cleaning work in some of the apartments near the apartment where the English minor Madeleine McCann disappeared, namely in an apartment that is in the same block but which is on the top floor, it being that the witness does not know precisely which apartment.

--- She adds that the witness is not always the one who goes there as there are other employees in the firm and the work allocation is done on a rotation basis.

--- The witness adds that the vast majority of people working in the area know that the apartments in the block occupied by the McCann couple are normally occupied given the proximity of the pool, and the occupants are usually foreigners.

--- The witness declares further that she knew of the disappearance of the minor from having heard conversations of her colleagues commenting on the case, it being that only two days after the events she came to understand [learn] the location where the events had occurred.

--- She has nothing to add regarding the disappearance of the minor Madeleine McCann, except to say that she has lived in the area of Praia da Luz for about eight years and at no time has she ever been aware of abnormal situations given that she characterises the area as being very quiet.

Nothing further was said. Read, ratifies and will sign with the translator who assisted in this.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 08:40:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2845 on: May 21, 2017, 08:52:PM »
RECORD OF PAEDOPHILE MATERIAL

3439 - Confidential report
re: denouncement of
 
Sergei Malinka (Spanish)
---------------
(The second of the three pieces of information from the book given to the PJ by Metodo 3)

Processos Vol XIII
Page 3439

2. RECORD OF PAEDOPHILE MATERIAL

Alison informs us that 4 years ago her boyfriend Cristian was spending two nights at Sergei Malinka's home when, upon going to send an email from one of Sergei's computers and upon joining an attachment he saw paedophile material. When asked for explanations, Sergei told him that it was a client's computer and that he would denounce the fact to the pertinent authorities the following day.

That is what Alison told us.

Alison's phone number: ******

The telephone conversation with Alison is attached:
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2846 on: May 21, 2017, 09:00:PM »
The Smith sighting of Gerry McCann carrying his dead daughter toward the beach has even more significance when we find that after his wife Kate broke the news that ' Maddie had been taken' , Gerry McCann returned to the beach under the cover of supposedly searching for his missing daughter, no doubt taking the opportunity to conceal her body in a better hiding place - I believe that location to be the garden of the derelict building located across the street from the church...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2847 on: May 21, 2017, 09:13:PM »
The Smith sighting of Gerry McCann carrying his dead daughter toward the beach has even more significance when we find that after his wife Kate broke the news that ' Maddie had been taken' , Gerry McCann returned to the beach under the cover of supposedly searching for his missing daughter, no doubt taking the opportunity to conceal her body in a better hiding place - I believe that location to be the garden of the derelict building located across the street from the church...
I would have thought those places in the locality would all have been searched. They searched Robert Murat's house but nothing found. I have always thought this was a very quick snatch and likely to have been someone with premises nearby. Like the Jill Dando case someone who knew the local area and wouldn't look suspicious frequenting it.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2848 on: May 21, 2017, 09:14:PM »
The Smith sighting of Gerry McCann carrying his dead daughter toward the beach has even more significance when we find that after his wife Kate broke the news that ' Maddie had been taken' , Gerry McCann returned to the beach under the cover of supposedly searching for his missing daughter, no doubt taking the opportunity to conceal her body in a better hiding place - I believe that location to be the garden of the derelict building located across the street from the church...

As far as I know, the grounds of the derelict building have never been searched by the police, despite there being clear evidence that the ground in a corner of the derelict buildings garden had been disturbed, with marker stones placed around the grave...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #2849 on: May 21, 2017, 09:20:PM »
I would have thought those places in the locality would all have been searched. They searched Robert Murat's house but nothing found. I have always thought this was a very quick snatch and likely to have been someone with premises nearby. Like the Jill Dando case someone who knew the local area and wouldn't look suspicious frequenting it.

No,  I can assure you that the disturbed ground had not been dug up in the garden of the derelict building located across the street from the church where the parents sought regular refuge during the early stages of the investigation into the disappearence of their daughter - at least not searched by the time of my visit in 2010. I accept that wasteland along the coast was searched, and other areas of interest, but certainly not the grounds of the derelict building, or the building itself, where I took the photographic image I have dubbed, 'the ghost of Maddie'...

The image appears squashed in a gap between a discarded single mattress in the pink room of the derelict building. When I took the photograph there was certainly no body present in that gap on the floor between the mattress and the wall! I have been taking photographs for some time and finding images not noticed at the time of taking! I believe that these images which generate in such photographs verge on supernatural phenomena! Sometimes things appear where at the time a photograph is taken did not exist, but could be capable of showing that 'the something' in question may have been there on some previous occasion! I feel certain that Maddie's body was taken into that room of the derelict building opposite the church where the parents had sought refuge! I can't explain why the image of a child wearing pink pyjamas metamorphasized in the picture I took in that room in 2010, other than to say that once I uploaded the image to my computer it was rather astonishing to see what I took to be a reassurence, a divine message, that 'YES' Maddie had been laid there in that small gap on some previous occasion three years beforehand...
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 09:44:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...