The case of Madeleine McCann

[HMEssex]

Roch/All :0

I suppose we all have different opinions on this case and its a matter of what you believe happened on the night Madeline disappeared. Like in the Bamber case we have to look at the evidence in what was provided to us. 

The first thing is that from the onset the crime scene was not cordoned off. The reason for this is because the police sent traffic cops to apartment 5A and they had no idea how to handle a crime scene. The PJ did not turn up till the following morning in the early hours.  This meant that any forensic evidence gained from the apartment was minimal.

The dogs played a key part in tracing blood and cadaver, but this is inadmissible in a British court.  Simply because its unsafe to convict on a dog bark alone....It would be ridiculous to do so.  The fact that our own police have dismissed this evidence, or should I say don't play on this evidence, tells me that its not that significant in finding out what happened to Madeline.
The key evidence in this case is the Smith's evidence which might feature on tonight's program.  Here we have several adults seeing a man carrying a child, a man that has never come forward despite world wide coverage of the case. Timing is important and its important to remember that when the Smith's saw this man both Madeline's parents were in the apartment. 

I think the hype of tonight's crimewatch is to attract as many viewer's as possible.  Tomorrow it will be shown in Holland and on Wednesday Germany.

I have faith in what Scotland Yard are up to, because I feel the whole investigation from the beginning was poor.  Its not about money its about a little girl that is missing from her family.   

The dogs were owned and trained by South Yorkshire Police Force!

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id157.html

[Patti]

I understand your point about the police officer.  Though it was the cadaver dog that checked the hire car and traced cadaver scent, as opposed to blood dog / blood scent.  Regarding the hire car itself...  It would have to be a particularly macabre vehicle to have been used to transport another body altogether while being previously hired out to other people, then also find itself at the 'scentre' of the McCann case?  It's the same with the apartment.  How likely is it that the McCann's just happened to be accommodated in an apartment where another, different, previous body had lain insitu?

Hi Roch the car was examined forensically and there were no trace of Madeline ever being in it. Not an hair or DNA.....

The hire car its self could have even had a dead animal in it at some point and was used by hundreds of people during its hired life. Its impossible to determine who's cadaver the dog smelled, and having been forensically tested the whole dog incident was shelved.

It was the same in the apartment many people had stayed in it and there are many statements in the archives that support those that had stayed has nose bleeds etc......so its really impossible to say....IF you take into account that Madeline's DNA was found in the apartment then yes, she stayed there of course her DNA would be there. 

There is absolutely no evidence to say she died in the apartment or that she is dead or alive, just as there isn't any evidence that she was abducted. The only thing we have is 6 witnesses saying they saw a man carrying a child at the time Madeline went missing......and this man has never come forward and, for this I go with the abduction theory. 

[lookout]

He fled PDL that night Lookout and travelled into Spain and left his car in Saville. Apparently he worked at a bar near where Madeline disappeared..200 yrds....it was said.  He is on the run from what I gather and not been seen since the 3rd of May......So I was wrong about him being arrested??

Patti,,he took off to the USA,and set himself up as a photographer ( I bet he did ) anyway,,not that long ago,,,looking older than in his DJ days,,he was " accosted " by one of our own resident reporters/journos' who asked him some questions,,which the guy was none too comfortable with---------like " weren't you wanted for questioning regarding sending texts to a 12 year old girl,etc " Why he was arrested there and then,I don't know. You've then got all this red tale with jurisdiction in another country then.
Secondly,,there was a German chap who drove a blue Mercedes Vita,with a caravan in tow,who was also in PDL at the same time that Madeleine was stolen,,but I've forgotten,or didn't see what he looked like.
I can't help thinking that Hewlett figures somewhere,,with his crummy past,German wife and finally the fact that he ended his life in a German hospital.
Whatever will be revealed tonight will shake up my memory.

[Lithium]

What ever happened with the South African fella who claims he discovered human remains under Murat's drive? Why is Murat against the digging if he has nothing to hide? Or even more baffling, why is Gerry or Kate "We'll leave no stone unturned" McCann totally against the digging?

Reminds me of their complete dismissal of the dog evidence. Surely any innocent parent would be interested in the dog discoveries and instantly consider it pretty substantial evidence of an abductor hurting Madeleine in the apartment. Instead they go out of their way to discredit sniffer dogs. Then again, if innocent, this could be put down to being in denial that their daughter is infact dead.

[lookout]

Hi Lookout,

Again I can see your point.  However that would imply that Kate wore the same clothing for attending deaths as she did for holidaying in Portugal?

Roch,,but the smell of cadaver with one of these dogs is like a woman wearing Chanel. The smell is everywhere and nothing will remove it from a dogs' highly sensitive olfactory,which is about 100 times more powerful than ours.
Even if Kate worse the same clothes in six months after numerous washes,,to a cadaver dog it would have been like last week.

[lookout]

One thing these dogs can't do,,is to tell you who the body is. The same with the blood dogs.Yes,,they could smell blood in the car/apartment,,but whose blood was it.? The rest was down to forensics,,,who made a hash of things anyway.

[Lithium]

One thing these dogs can't do,,is to tell you who the body is.

Where there many previous reports of deaths/murders/missing persons who had stayed in that apartment and disappeared from the face of the earth?

[lookout]

Where there many previous reports of deaths/murders/missing persons who had stayed in that apartment and disappeared from the face of the earth?

Lithium,,I seem to remember something about that particular apartment,,underneath a part of the floor. I must try and find what it was,,but there was talk ( as there usually is in cases such as this ) of a " cellar-like " compartment,but I don't think it was ever explored,,as there was every chance it could just have been hearsay at the time,in order to incriminate the McCanns.

[Patti]

What ever happened with the South African fella who claims he discovered human remains under Murat's drive? Why is Murat against the digging if he has nothing to hide? Or even more baffling, why is Gerry or Kate "We'll leave no stone unturned" McCann totally against the digging?

Reminds me of their complete dismissal of the dog evidence. Surely any innocent parent would be interested in the dog discoveries and instantly consider it pretty substantial evidence of an abductor hurting Madeleine in the apartment. Instead they go out of their way to discredit sniffer dogs. Then again, if innocent, this could be put down to being in denial that their daughter is infact dead.

Hi Lithium :0

Because he is a nut case and obsessed with the case and no one takes him seriously with his invention...We have a man that claims he as invented a body finding machine. He trespasses on Murat's property and states Madeline is buried under the drive a drive that had been laid for years....Would you believe him? 

On saying that though I am aware that there is such equipment used by the police and that it was used on the moors recently when looking for the remains of Keith Bennett.  So in all fairness I might be one sided about this....

The other thing is that its up to the police to investigate and surely Kate not Gerry have a no say when it comes to unearthing vital information regarding a missing child.....

[Patti]

Lithium,,I seem to remember something about that particular apartment,,underneath a part of the floor. I must try and find what it was,,but there was talk ( as there usually is in cases such as this ) of a " cellar-like " compartment,but I don't think it was ever explored,,as there was every chance it could just have been hearsay at the time,in order to incriminate the McCanns.

I think that was Murat's home Lookout.  The architect who supplied plans of the villa said there was an empty room of some kind underneath the villa.  I can't remember anything about a void under the apartment....Although PDL is built on various tunnels and undergrounds.....

[lookout]

I think that was Murat's home Lookout.  The architect who supplied plans of the villa said there was an empty room of some kind underneath the villa.  I can't remember anything about a void under the apartment....Although PDL is built on various tunnels and undergrounds.....

Yes,,Patti,,I've just had a scout around and thought of Murats' cellar which he was slow to admit that it existed.

[Lithium]

Hi Lithium :0

Because he is a nut case and obsessed with the case and no one takes him seriously with his invention...We have a man that claims he as invented a body finding machine. He trespasses on Murat's property and states Madeline is buried under the drive a drive that had been laid for years....Would you believe him? 

On saying that though I am aware that there is such equipment used by the police and that it was used on the moors recently when looking for the remains of Keith Bennett.  So in all fairness I might be one sided about this....

The other thing is that its up to the police to investigate and surely Kate not Gerry have a no say when it comes to unearthing vital information regarding a missing child.....

Unless I am mistaken this man is a reputable and successful businessman and not an inventor. I believe he paid £50,000 for the ground-scanning machine. His findings have also been confirmed by independent experts who agree they warrant a dig. The area his machine detected was 2 feet under a ground that was laid in 2008.

Whether Kate and Gerry have the 'official' say in what happens or not is irrelevant, if I were them and a heard a machine detected a body in the drive of the very first suspect in the disappearance of my daughter (a person 3 of my friends identified, Jane Tanner even attempted to finger Murat as the man she saw carrying the child), I'd be vocal about wanting it investigated. "no stone unturned" etc.

This is the same couple who hired the "body finder"Danie Krügel  in July 2007.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id304.html
This person invented his own machine, maybe that's what you're thinking of. (also South African)
(Why did the McCanns pay for this guy so early on to come in and use a machine to help find where the body is buried, only to go on and dismiss any suggestion that she is dead? )

I believe Kate's response to Stephen Birch (the businessman who paid for his machine, not invent it) was along the lines of "who even is this guy?", there's your thanks for spending 50k of your hard-earned and traveling across the world to investigate her daughters disappearance.

[Patti]

Unless I am mistaken this man is a reputable and successful businessman and not an inventor. I believe he paid £50,000 for the ground-scanning machine. His findings have also been confirmed by independent experts who agree they warrant a dig. The area his machine detected was 2 feet under a ground that was laid in 2008.

Whether Kate and Gerry have the 'official' say in what happens or not is irrelevant, if I were them and a heard a machine detected a body in the drive of the very first suspect in the disappearance of my daughter (a person 3 of my friends identified, Jane Tanner even attempted to finger Murat as the man she saw carrying the child), I'd be vocal about wanting it investigated. "no stone unturned" etc.

This is the same couple who hired the "body finder"Danie Krügel  in July 2007.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id304.html
This person invented his own machine, maybe that's what you're thinking of. (also South African)
(Why did the McCanns pay for this guy so early on to come in and use a machine to help find where the body is buried, only to go on and dismiss any suggestion that she is dead? )

I believe Kate's response to Stephen Birch (the businessman who paid for his machine, not invent it) was along the lines of "who even is this guy?", there's your thanks for spending 50k of your hard-earned and traveling across the world to investigate her daughters disappearance.

Lithium they are press reports aren't they? I'll take a look at it, because its been a long time since I looked at this case.

I'm keeping an open mind at the moment and will wait till I see what part of the timeline they have changed.....I think on the whole many will be disappointed by tonight's program....Its a feeling I have.   

[Patti]

The man is a crack pot and did conduct his own search and has no connection to Gerry and Kate....The press is over the top....Please use this site for research...

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/63july12/CORREIO_DA_MANHA1_08_07_2012.htm

[lookout]

Lithium they are press reports aren't they? I'll take a look at it, because its been a long time since I looked at this case.

I'm keeping an open mind at the moment and will wait till I see what part of the timeline they have changed.....I think on the whole many will be disappointed by tonight's program....Its a feeling I have.   

Hi Patti,,I'm not anticipating too much regarding the programme either,,considering that it's another complex case where they won't have included many of the things that indeed we know ourselves. It would take more than an hour to sift through the reams of information that there is,,and they probably won't show much more than we already know. So the idea is,,not to expect too much at this juncture.