Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath

[sami]

Jeremy made a list at Police's request and it's in Roger Wilkes' book, which I don't have to hand.

thanks steve,i will look into it

[Steve_uk]

Didn't an anonymous psychologist on the Defence team claim Jeremy was guilty and had buried the memory deeply within the recesses of his mind?  I was wondering how much credence can be given to this phenomenon?  https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Repressed-Memory-Memories-Allegations/dp/0312141238

[lookout]

If true,the mind can only contain feelings of guilt for so long as certain aspects of behaviour would show through--------such as having a bad temper used to cover up guilt other than the usual looking everywhere but at the person you're speaking to,or both of course.
I haven't read the link yet,but I will do ( after I've switched the sprouts on )

[Jane]

If true,the mind can only contain feelings of guilt for so long as certain aspects of behaviour would show through--------such as having a bad temper used to cover up guilt other than the usual looking everywhere but at the person you're speaking to,or both of course.
I haven't read the link yet,but I will do ( after I've switched the sprouts on )

Total codswallop, Lookout. You appear to be saying that any show of bad temper is a sign of buried guilt feelings. How many of us might that apply to? If applied to Jeremy, who the hell is going to be concerned about another arsey prisoner. Prisons must be full of those.

[Steve_uk]

I'm assuming the principle is the same whether you refuse to admit to mass murder or stealing from a sweet shop. Did Jeremy ever apologize for anything ever and if not is there a reason why?  http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/people-who-never-apologize-are-probably-happier-than-you-12584567/?no-ist

[Jane]

I'm assuming the principle is the same whether you refuse to admit to mass murder or stealing from a sweet shop. Did Jeremy ever apologize for anything ever and if not is there a reason why?  http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/people-who-never-apologize-are-probably-happier-than-you-12584567/?no-ist

An interesting question, Steve. There are those who are bought up to feel responsible and guilty. They will never fail to apologise. Then there are those who believe that theirs is the only way, hate to be made to feel wrong but see it as weakness to apologise. There is also another group who have been led to believe that it's unnecessary for them to apologise.

[lookout]

Total codswallop, Lookout. You appear to be saying that any show of bad temper is a sign of buried guilt feelings. How many of us might that apply to? If applied to Jeremy, who the hell is going to be concerned about another arsey prisoner. Prisons must be full of those.

Gee thanks again for that vote of confidence  I would imagine that any guilt shows itself when it comes to the forefront of the mind, making that person tetchy and somewhat uneasy that a " happening " just won't go away.
Because I personally don't have that affliction I can't say by experience,I can only imagine a mind being troubled in this way.

There is NO need for rank bad manners------unless of course you can't help it !!

[Jane]

Gee thanks again for that vote of confidence  I would imagine that any guilt shows itself when it comes to the forefront of the mind, making that person tetchy and somewhat uneasy that a " happening " just won't go away.
Because I personally don't have that affliction I can't say by experience,I can only imagine a mind being troubled in this way.

There is NO need for rank bad manners------unless of course you can't help it !!

Lookout, guilt is guilt is guilt so I guess that makes us all -if we're honest- guilty of something, and before you talk about degrees of guilt, there's no way to measure, so one could feel more guilty for not paying a fare than could another for murder.We simply CANNOT say, that because someone is tetchy, they're hiding guilt.

Oh, and just so we're clear, my "codswallop" comment -HARDLY bad manners- was directed NOT at you, but my view of the comment you made.

[lookout]

Lookout, guilt is guilt is guilt so I guess that makes us all -if we're honest- guilty of something, and before you talk about degrees of guilt, there's no way to measure, so one could feel more guilty for not paying a fare than could another for murder.We simply CANNOT say, that because someone is tetchy, they're hiding guilt.

Oh, and just so we're clear, my "codswallop" comment -HARDLY bad manners- was directed NOT at you, but my view of the comment you made.

Only a hardened criminal would hide any sign of guilt. Jeremy's hardly a hardened criminal,he doesn't even come anywhere near the description. Nor is he a mass murderer.
Most criminals are edgy from what I've seen. Hiding something.Fear of being dobbed in or caught. Ever met an honest criminal ? Conmen with the gift of the gab-----shifty beggars with no conscience.
 Anyone,it doesn't have to be a criminal,if they're hiding something, will appear on edge or uncomfortable.
Those who've got nothing to hide are entirely different, are happy,content and laid-back characters and who are not afraid of confrontation of any kind.
Irritated would be a word best used for those who experience the odd blip in life as opposed to tetchy which usually indicates some sort of deep-seated problem. A baby/toddler can be tetchy,which means that they have a physical problem,be it teething or stomach ache. In an adult it usually spells a problem about worry of sorts-------the mind, and can become out of character for a person who's normally placid sparking something more than just a blip.

If you go through life doing the right thing,there's no place for guilt is there ?

[sami]

Only a hardened criminal would hide any sign of guilt. Jeremy's hardly a hardened criminal,he doesn't even come anywhere near the description. Nor is he a mass murderer.
Most criminals are edgy from what I've seen. Hiding something.Fear of being dobbed in or caught. Ever met an honest criminal ? Conmen with the gift of the gab-----shifty beggars with no conscience.
 Anyone,it doesn't have to be a criminal,if they're hiding something, will appear on edge or uncomfortable.
Those who've got nothing to hide are entirely different, are happy,content and laid-back characters and who are not afraid of confrontation of any kind.
Irritated would be a word best used for those who experience the odd blip in life as opposed to tetchy which usually indicates some sort of deep-seated problem. A baby/toddler can be tetchy,which means that they have a physical problem,be it teething or stomach ache. In an adult it usually spells a problem about worry of sorts-------the mind, and can become out of character for a person who's normally placid sparking something more than just a blip.

If you go through life doing the right thing,there's no place for guilt is there ?

oh but he is ,hardened or softened,makes no difference ,the posts in the other topic prove that .'lastest from trudi'.police dont watch people unless they think there is something criminal going on

[Jane]

Only a hardened criminal would hide any sign of guilt. Jeremy's hardly a hardened criminal,he doesn't even come anywhere near the description. Nor is he a mass murderer.
Most criminals are edgy from what I've seen. Hiding something.Fear of being dobbed in or caught. Ever met an honest criminal ? Conmen with the gift of the gab-----shifty beggars with no conscience.
 Anyone,it doesn't have to be a criminal,if they're hiding something, will appear on edge or uncomfortable.
Those who've got nothing to hide are entirely different, are happy,content and laid-back characters and who are not afraid of confrontation of any kind.
Irritated would be a word best used for those who experience the odd blip in life as opposed to tetchy which usually indicates some sort of deep-seated problem. A baby/toddler can be tetchy,which means that they have a physical problem,be it teething or stomach ache. In an adult it usually spells a problem about worry of sorts-------the mind, and can become out of character for a person who's normally placid sparking something more than just a blip.

If you go through life doing the right thing,there's no place for guilt is there ?

Lookout, I've rarely heard such sanctimonious, smug, judgemental and condescending words. It must be truly hard for you to have to share a world with others when you are the only one in it who has never erred.

For your information, living with guilt -whether or not it's ones responsibility- becomes a way of life. A part of one's personality. No one notices that anything is different, but Hey, don't let that disturb the pious, guilt free world you inhabit. And you reckon you know what empathy is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Caroline]

Didn't an anonymous psychologist on the Defence team claim Jeremy was guilty and had buried the memory deeply within the recesses of his mind?  I was wondering how much credence can be given to this phenomenon?  https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Repressed-Memory-Memories-Allegations/dp/0312141238

I think the idea of him burying the memory is rubbish.

[Caroline]

Only a hardened criminal would hide any sign of guilt. Jeremy's hardly a hardened criminal,he doesn't even come anywhere near the description. Nor is he a mass murderer.
Most criminals are edgy from what I've seen. Hiding something.Fear of being dobbed in or caught. Ever met an honest criminal ? Conmen with the gift of the gab-----shifty beggars with no conscience.
 Anyone,it doesn't have to be a criminal,if they're hiding something, will appear on edge or uncomfortable.
Those who've got nothing to hide are entirely different, are happy,content and laid-back characters and who are not afraid of confrontation of any kind.
Irritated would be a word best used for those who experience the odd blip in life as opposed to tetchy which usually indicates some sort of deep-seated problem. A baby/toddler can be tetchy,which means that they have a physical problem,be it teething or stomach ache. In an adult it usually spells a problem about worry of sorts-------the mind, and can become out of character for a person who's normally placid sparking something more than just a blip.

If you go through life doing the right thing,there's no place for guilt is there ?

Promise me you will never write a book on any aspect of human psychology 

Jeremy isn't a hardened criminal? He's been locked up for 30 years! Of course he is 

Most criminals are 'edgy' - how man have you met? Jeremy can hardly have a fear of being 'dobbed in' he's already been 'dobbed in' 

People with no conscience have no conscience Lookout - they don't feel guilt - Jeremy feels no guilt. None of it means anything to him other than he thinks he's been wronged because he should have gotten away with it.

Placid my A  ............ se!

[sami]

I think the idea of him burying the memory is rubbish.

totally agree caroline

[lookout]

oh but he is ,hardened or softened,makes no difference ,the posts in the other topic prove that .'lastest from trudi'.police dont watch people unless they think there is something criminal going on

So they'll be watching him in prison too then and reporting back on his behaviour there then ? Funny,  I haven't heard anything untoward about him or any dealings with drugs.