Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath

[JackiePreece]

Even in the happiest adoption situations for some if not all people it must be very hard to be torn between not knowing where you come from, being frightened to learn the reality of where you come from and on discovery hating where you come from, or the opposite of that or something in between. 

How do adopted children really cope with the reality of trying to forgive a mother who,no matter how hard they try to understand the reasons and excuse her, in their minds  she rejected them?  If that is coupled with feeling rejected in their adoptive home it is a very tough situation for them. imo

Maggie do any of us know where we come from?  Gods creatures, swamps, African Savana?

What about mothers who put their children in care homes?  How do these children feel?  What about mothers that allow their children to be abused by their partners.  I could go on and on.

You're too hung up on adoption Maggie and need to chll out about it all. 

[lookout]

Lookout you're the most empathetic person I've ever met in my whole life.  You given up much of your retirement over the last few years to support Jeremy the best way you know how to.  xxx

I've never been one to blow my own trumpet but you've done it for me,Jackie. xxxx

[sami]

Why would this call be kept secret Lookout? Had their been such a call, Taff Jones would have used it to fend off the relatives. it was PROOF that Jeremy was innocent, the kind of evidence that couldn't be refuted. Had it been the case, the relatives would have had no log to stand on and would have had to slip into the back ground. So WHY would EP keep such a call secret?

very good point caroline taff jones would not have stayed silent ,may even have leaked it to the press when taken off the case.

[Jane]

I've never been one to blow my own trumpet but you've done it for me,Jackie. xxxx

Then how is it you always manage to imply you do just about everything better than anyone else OR should that be you don't believe anyone matches up to your own perceived high standards?

[sami]

Maggie do any of us know where we come from?  Gods creatures, swamps, African Savana?

What about mothers who put their children in care homes?  How do these children feel?  What about mothers that allow their children to be abused by their partners.  I could go on and on.

You're too hung up on adoption Maggie and need to chll out about it all.

i think youre wrong maggie's not hung up about anythink.and for you to analyze it that way is insulting,as for chilling out ,she's the most chilled out person on here,dont forget she's a moderator so she reads both angles ,allways cool in responses

[sami]

Maggie do any of us know where we come from?  Gods creatures, swamps, African Savana?

What about mothers who put their children in care homes?  How do these children feel?  What about mothers that allow their children to be abused by their partners.  I could go on and on.

You're too hung up on adoption Maggie and need to chll out about it all.

read reply 1264, by me

[maggie]

Maggie do any of us know where we come from?  Gods creatures, swamps, African Savana?

What about mothers who put their children in care homes?  How do these children feel?  What about mothers that allow their children to be abused by their partners.  I could go on and on.

You're too hung up on adoption Maggie and need to chll out about it all.

The only reason I have talked about adoption is in relation to the Jeremy Bamber case and the effect adoption may have had on the subsequent lives of both Sheila and Jeremy.

It is true many children.... 'God's creatures' do suffer in this country and through out the world but I cannot see how these very sad facts are  relevant to the discussion questioning the guilt or innocence of Jeremy Bamber.  Hope that helps. 

[sami]

That was in response to the following in 2004.  At this time he had spent about 19 years in prison.  Of course he was being filosofical about his situation who wouldn't. 

I said when I talked to him on the phone he told me he had a very happy life before prison.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/He+went+to+lovely+people+who+gave+him+the+best+start+in+life.+He...-a0112751004

Why didn't you ask to go on his phone list?  Never to late and you could ask him about the wallet and trailer.

Talking of trailers I think I might wash my horse box out as its a nice day 

i doubt if caroline would want to be on a childkillers phone list.the photos ive seen of him in the nick ,it seems he's very happy where he is allways smiling for the camera.as for the trailer wont it be a muckie job,better you than me

[JackiePreece]

i doubt if caroline would want to be on a childkillers phone list.the photos ive seen of him in the nick ,it seems he's very happy where he is allways smiling for the camera.as for the trailer wont it be a muckie job,better you than me

Writing as Caroline did and receiving letters means she has to touch items the child killer has touched much muckier than cleaning out my horse box 

[JackiePreece]

i think youre wrong maggie's not hung up about anythink.and for you to analyze it that way is insulting,as for chilling out ,she's the most chilled out person on here,dont forget she's a moderator so she reads both angles ,allways cool in responses

Maggie said all babies adopted suffer primal screams because they're separated from their natural mothers.  But she can't explain those accidentally swapped at birth.  Do they suffer primal screams?  Or babies that lose their mothers in childbirth, natural disasters, wars, famines, illness followed by death, accidents.   Do all these babies suffer primal screams? 

[Jane]

Maggie said all babies adopted suffer primal screams because they're separated from their natural mothers.  But she can't explain those accidentally swapped at birth.  Do they suffer primal screams?  Or babies that lose their mothers in childbirth, natural disasters, wars, famines, illness followed by death, accidents.   Do all these babies suffer primal screams?

You seem to be demanding hard and fast concrete answers. You should be aware that psychology doesn't give them. The best answer I came give is that I believe it's highly likely that those children you list DO suffer loss at some level which will result -at some point in their lives- as depression which could manifest itself in numerous ways ie PTSD, eating disorders, addictions, dependent on the age of the child at the time of loss.

There was a moment in our history when children, when admitted to hospital, were denied parental visits. The child's world, without it's mother, would have been a scary place and the child screamed for it's mother. It was deemed -during that time in our thinking- to be badly behaved. Over time -a few days- the screaming would lessen, until the time that the child accepted that it's mother wasn't coming back -effectively abandoning her child- and the crying ceased. It was at this time that the child was said to be behaving itself. We now know that what we were witnessing, rather than good behaviour, was depression.

Loss is experienced by us all. As adults, we have had time to develop coping strategies. Children don't have this luxury. A newborn has had 9 months of hearing it's mother's voice before birth. By 6 weeks it also recognizes her touch and her smell. It will recognize if it isn't she who puts a teat to it's lips. It will be totally helpless if this primary source of comfort is removed.

As a continuum, an interesting experiment was carried out. A given number of people were asked to congregate silently and pick one other person. After which the couples were asked to pick another couple -again, silently. The new foursome then picked another foursome. At the end of the experiment there were always a group on the outside who hadn't been picked -had been rejected?- This "wallflower" group always turned out to be people who had been adopted, fostered or bought up in care homes.

[maggie]

Maggie said all babies adopted suffer primal screams because they're separated from their natural mothers.  But she can't explain those accidentally swapped at birth.  Do they suffer primal screams?  Or babies that lose their mothers in childbirth, natural disasters, wars, famines, illness followed by death, accidents.   Do all these babies suffer primal screams?

Of course they do, any baby who is born prematurely and put in an incubator or a baby removed from its mother temporarily or permanently will suffer the same wound which cannot be healed even if the mother returns to the child. The loss and the wound it causes cannot be healed because the intimate relationship of the dependant baby who is still as much a part of their natural mother as when they were in the womb cannot heal the part which has been lost, the part which suddenly just disappeared. The connection is severed and the severing causes the wound which will always remain. 

How much of a problem that becomes depends on the  future development of the baby, if they are able to deeply bond with their alternative permanent carer if they have one and their life experiences.

A child can grow up well adjusted in a happy loving family but an incident which is beyond their control can trigger the dormant pain of the wound.
Of course we all have experiences in childhood and adulthood which leave lasting psychological effects but the reason for this discussion is to show that Jeremy Bamber will have suffered severely from separation from his mother even if he wasn't aware of it. Further separations and feelings of rejection would have been difficult for him to cope with on some level, even if he wasn't aware of it.

Sheila appeared to display her difficulties via illness, erratic behaviour and voicing her inability to bond with her mother. 

Jeremy appears to have struggled in his own way but being a young man educated in a public school and growing up in the same atmosphere at home ie. 'Boys don't cry' , a 'stiff upper lip', 'take it on the chin' etc. He would have had little outlet for his struggles with pain and loss which he probably didn't understand, which in turn MAY have lead to him releasing all his anger and pain in one night.

On the other hand it MAY have nothing to do with the murders, it is just a theory and I know that doesn't make it fact.

[sami]

Writing as Caroline did and receiving letters means she has to touch items the child killer has touched much muckier than cleaning out my horse box 

caroline researched the whole case and relised jb was guilty,and to her credit she freely admits she was wrong in the past .unlike you.you really must clear the wool from your eyes ,unless your too proud just like taff jones ,to admit youve been duped ;)as for muckier i will accept your word on it ,you being an expert in that field

[Caroline]

caroline researched the whole case and relised jb was guilty,and to her credit she freely admits she was wrong in the past .unlike you.you really must clear the wool from your eyes ,unless your too proud just like taff jones ,to admit youve been duped ;)as for muckier i will accept your word on it ,you being an expert in that field

I think we have a virus Sami! 

[lookout]

Speaking of viruses,I had notification this morning that an attempt to get into my mail had been averted.

Having not long set-up my new laptop ( a Christmas present ! ) I thought I'd be safe with all the gadgets giving me the security that's " obviously " needed. Doesn't take the swines long,does it ? However because I received the notification meant that whoever was trying,didn't succeed.