Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath  (Read 236902 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #945 on: May 26, 2016, 10:56:PM »
I don't buy everything JM said, but I don't agree with you either. I think it's more likely that AE learned stuff from Julie, not the other way around. Your theory falls flat because none of the relatives mentioned a hit man and it's ludicrous to suggest that the police would introduce such. I'm sure you'll keep ignoring this fact but don't worry, I'll keep reminding you!!  ;) ;D ;D


Please do keep reminding me so I can keep debunking your theories.
So you don't believe everything Julie says? well that's a start I guess.
 
You seem to be forgetting AE got that info from the police, and even if she did get it from Julie it still does not corroborate the crime scene.

From Julie Mugford’s statement, page 23

"I have been asked if I have read or been told about a bible found on Sheila's
chest when she was found dead. I can definitely say I haven't but it was
told to me by Jeremy. I will add that some time after the 7th August 1985,
Ann EATON asked me if I knew about a bible which was near Sheila and I told
her that I did and that it was found on her chest. I think I told her it
was creepy. I think she asked me about the bible on the Friday of the week of the murders.”


This makes no sense. If Ann Eaton had been told about the bible on Sheila's chest by Julie, she would have asked how Julie knew and Julie would have had to tell her that Jeremy told her the story about Matthew MacDonald. ?

RB believed Jeremy had help on the night of the murders and first suspected Brett Collins but turned out he was abroad at the time. So the idea of an accomplice was on RBs mind. He also mentions Jeremy giving someone £2000 this happens to be the exact same figure Julie said he paid for the Hitman. Then the idea of MM being a Hitman comes from none other than MM himself “this was pure fabrication but I kept it going at times because it made people think I was somebody but it was totally untrue.”
 

Julies entire witness testimony once dissected you can follow the leads and find out were she really got the information from and none of it leads back to Jeremy.

Now read AEs trial transcript on the issue, your theory is surprise surprise another impossibility

MR. RIVLIN: Mrs. Eaton, I would just like to ask you one or two questions, if I
may, about Julie Mugford and one or two things that happened when you were
present. I think you were present when Julie Mugford returned from the
Mortuary?

A. I was in the car when she went.

Q. And so you were with her when she came back?

A Yes.

Q. Did she appear to be upset?

 A. She asked if she could smoke, and she said
it was not as bad as she thought it was going to be.

Q. I would like to ask you another thing about Julie Mugford, and it is this
something I was going to ask you before the luncheon adjournment- there
came a stage shortly after the events when a police officer told you something
in confidence, did he not, about what had happened and what had been found?
Do you remember? He told you, amongst other things, that when 'Sheila had
been found there was a bible on her chest?

A. I did hear there was a bible on her chest.

MR. JUSTICE DRAKE (To the witness): Did you hear it from the policeman is the
question?

A. I cannot remember, but I heard it whilst in Jeremy's cottage.

MR. RIVLIN: Let remind you. Is it not right that one of the police officers
told you that Uncle Nevill was in the kitchen near the coal scuttle, that the
twins were in their beds, shot?

A. Yes.

Q. That Aunt June Bamber and Sheila were both on the bed, shot, with Sheila having
a bible on her chest, with the gun beside her?

A. Yes.

Q. And is it right that shortly after that information had been imparted to you,
you had a conversation with Julie Mugford, and you told Julie that when Sheila.
had been found there had been a bible found on her chest?

A. I really cannot remember who told me the bible was on the chest.

MR JUSTICE DRAKE (To the witness): That is not the question now, but it is right
you should tell us. You do not remember who told you that Sheila was found
with the bible on her chest, but the question now is, whoever it was who told
you that, did you pass that on to Julie?

A. I do not remember. I did have a conversation with Julie about the same time.
She said to me Sheila kept saying, I thought she said she was a "white wedge", or perhaps it was a “white
witch", but I do not remember who told me that the bible was on the chest.

MR. JUSTICE Drake: I do not think we have the full answer yet, Mr. Rivlin.

MR. RIVLIN: Would you accept that it was, in fact, one of the officers who told
you that Sheila was found with a bible on her chest and the gun beside her?

A. I cannot remember who told me the bible was on her chest, so I am saying
it could have been Julie. I cannot remember who told me.

Q. In those circumstances I think that I must show the document to the witness.

MR. JUSTICE DRAKE: What the witness just said is “it could have been Julie who
told me that" - that Sheila was found with a bible on her chest. (To the
witness): Wherereas the question you are being asked is put the other way around
That someone told you and you told Julie that she had been found with a bible
on her chest. That is the question. If you cannot answer, you cannot?

A. I cannot remember. I just remember Julie saying something about Sheila
said she was a “white wedge", which I thought she said, but it turned out she
thought she was a "white witch", but I cannot remember who told me about the
bible.

MR. RIVLIN: Could you remember at the time who told you about the bible?

A. I cannot remember.

Q. You made statements to the police officers, did you not, in this case, and I
would like you to look, please, at a statement which is dated 8th September
1985. (Same handed). Your signature appears on this document. Is it a
typewritten document? Does it bear your signature?

A. No.

MR RIVLIN: I am told that the original is outside.

MR. ARLIDGE: I will have it checked with the original.

MR RIVLIN: Do you see that? The third paragraph. Does it read as follows:
"One of the officers told me that Uncle Nevill Bamber was in the kitchen near
the coal scuttle. The twins were in their bed, shot, Aunt June and Sheila
Bamber both on the bed, shot, with Sheila Bamber having a bible on her
chest with the gun beside her"?

A. Yes.

Q. Does that help you to remember, Mrs. Eaton? You did say that to the police?

A. Yes, I must have done, because it is written down here. I can remember
the policeman telling me Uncle Nevill was beside the coal scuttle, the twins
were in their beds, shot, Auntie June and Sheila were on the bed with the gun
between them, and I asked how they were shot, and he went like this. I do
not know who told me. I am sorry. Maybe it was a mistake. Asking me now.
I cannot remember who told me.

Q. What I have done is this: I have shown you a statement in which you said that
the police told you that?

 A. Yes.

Q. And it is a statement that you made in September last year?

A. Yes.

Q. A month and a day or so after the event?

A. Yes.

Q. And at that time were you able to remember that the police had given you that
information, because it appears in your statement?

A. It appears so, but
there were a lot of people in the house at the time and I was asking a lot of
people a lot of questions. I am trying to listen at the same time and make
coffee.

Q. And you did have a discussion with Julie, did you not? I am not suggesting
anything improper in this?

A. She said Sheila did say she was a white, and
I thought she said "wedge", because I did not know what she was talking about,
and I said to somebody "Julie said Sheila was a white wedge. What is that?"
and she said "She meant a white witch, I suppose."

Q. You told Julie that Sheila had been found with the bible on her chest?

A. I cannot remember. You are asking me now, and there are certain things
I can remember now. It is very difficult. It was along time ago and I am
only trying to tell the truth.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 11:01:PM by David1819 »

guest2181

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #946 on: May 26, 2016, 11:06:PM »
I don't buy everything JM said, but I don't agree with you either. I think it's more likely that AE learned stuff from Julie, not the other way around. Your theory falls flat because none of the relatives mentioned a hit man and it's ludicrous to suggest that the police would introduce such. I'm sure you'll keep ignoring this fact but don't worry, I'll keep reminding you!!  ;) ;D ;D

You would have thought that when the police coached Julie, they would have been more accurate with her claims.  :-\

Offline sami

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #947 on: May 26, 2016, 11:15:PM »
You would have thought that when the police coached Julie, they would have been more accurate with her claims.  :-\
thats a good point hartley

guest2181

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #948 on: May 26, 2016, 11:28:PM »
thats a good point hartley

Newspapers also ran stories on the 8th of August referring to a single shot to Sheila, I wonder if a bible was mentioned?

Suddenly this so called misinformation isn't as unique as David is making out in his 'facts'.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #949 on: May 26, 2016, 11:34:PM »

Please do keep reminding me so I can keep debunking your theories.
So you don't believe everything Julie says? well that's a start I guess.
 
You seem to be forgetting AE got that info from the police, and even if she did get it from Julie it still does not corroborate the crime scene.

From Julie Mugford’s statement, page 23

"I have been asked if I have read or been told about a bible found on Sheila's
chest when she was found dead. I can definitely say I haven't but it was
told to me by Jeremy. I will add that some time after the 7th August 1985,
Ann EATON asked me if I knew about a bible which was near Sheila and I told
her that I did and that it was found on her chest. I think I told her it
was creepy. I think she asked me about the bible on the Friday of the week of the murders.”


This makes no sense. If Ann Eaton had been told about the bible on Sheila's chest by Julie, she would have asked how Julie knew and Julie would have had to tell her that Jeremy told her the story about Matthew MacDonald. ?

RB believed Jeremy had help on the night of the murders and first suspected Brett Collins but turned out he was abroad at the time. So the idea of an accomplice was on RBs mind. He also mentions Jeremy giving someone £2000 this happens to be the exact same figure Julie said he paid for the Hitman. Then the idea of MM being a Hitman comes from none other than MM himself “this was pure fabrication but I kept it going at times because it made people think I was somebody but it was totally untrue.”
 

Julies entire witness testimony once dissected you can follow the leads and find out were she really got the information from and none of it leads back to Jeremy.

Now read AEs trial transcript on the issue, your theory is surprise surprise another impossibility

MR. RIVLIN: Mrs. Eaton, I would just like to ask you one or two questions, if I
may, about Julie Mugford and one or two things that happened when you were
present. I think you were present when Julie Mugford returned from the
Mortuary?

A. I was in the car when she went.

Q. And so you were with her when she came back?

A Yes.

Q. Did she appear to be upset?

 A. She asked if she could smoke, and she said
it was not as bad as she thought it was going to be.

Q. I would like to ask you another thing about Julie Mugford, and it is this
something I was going to ask you before the luncheon adjournment- there
came a stage shortly after the events when a police officer told you something
in confidence, did he not, about what had happened and what had been found?
Do you remember? He told you, amongst other things, that when 'Sheila had
been found there was a bible on her chest?

A. I did hear there was a bible on her chest.

MR. JUSTICE DRAKE (To the witness): Did you hear it from the policeman is the
question?

A. I cannot remember, but I heard it whilst in Jeremy's cottage.

MR. RIVLIN: Let remind you. Is it not right that one of the police officers
told you that Uncle Nevill was in the kitchen near the coal scuttle, that the
twins were in their beds, shot?

A. Yes.

Q. That Aunt June Bamber and Sheila were both on the bed, shot, with Sheila having
a bible on her chest, with the gun beside her?

A. Yes.

Q. And is it right that shortly after that information had been imparted to you,
you had a conversation with Julie Mugford, and you told Julie that when Sheila.
had been found there had been a bible found on her chest?

A. I really cannot remember who told me the bible was on the chest.

MR JUSTICE DRAKE (To the witness): That is not the question now, but it is right
you should tell us. You do not remember who told you that Sheila was found
with the bible on her chest, but the question now is, whoever it was who told
you that, did you pass that on to Julie?

A. I do not remember. I did have a conversation with Julie about the same time.
She said to me Sheila kept saying, I thought she said she was a "white wedge", or perhaps it was a “white
witch", but I do not remember who told me that the bible was on the chest.

MR. JUSTICE Drake: I do not think we have the full answer yet, Mr. Rivlin.

MR. RIVLIN: Would you accept that it was, in fact, one of the officers who told
you that Sheila was found with a bible on her chest and the gun beside her?

A. I cannot remember who told me the bible was on her chest, so I am saying
it could have been Julie.
I cannot remember who told me.

Q. In those circumstances I think that I must show the document to the witness.

MR. JUSTICE DRAKE: What the witness just said is “it could have been Julie who
told me that" - that Sheila was found with a bible on her chest.
(To the
witness): Wherereas the question you are being asked is put the other way around
That someone told you and you told Julie that she had been found with a bible
on her chest. That is the question. If you cannot answer, you cannot?

A. I cannot remember. I just remember Julie saying something about Sheila
said she was a “white wedge", which I thought she said, but it turned out she
thought she was a "white witch", but I cannot remember who told me about the
bible.

MR. RIVLIN: Could you remember at the time who told you about the bible?

A. I cannot remember.

Q. You made statements to the police officers, did you not, in this case, and I
would like you to look, please, at a statement which is dated 8th September
1985. (Same handed). Your signature appears on this document. Is it a
typewritten document? Does it bear your signature?

A. No.

MR RIVLIN: I am told that the original is outside.

MR. ARLIDGE: I will have it checked with the original.

MR RIVLIN: Do you see that? The third paragraph. Does it read as follows:
"One of the officers told me that Uncle Nevill Bamber was in the kitchen near
the coal scuttle. The twins were in their bed, shot, Aunt June and Sheila
Bamber both on the bed, shot, with Sheila Bamber having a bible on her
chest with the gun beside her"?

A. Yes.

Q. Does that help you to remember, Mrs. Eaton? You did say that to the police?

A. Yes, I must have done, because it is written down here. I can remember
the policeman telling me Uncle Nevill was beside the coal scuttle, the twins
were in their beds, shot, Auntie June and Sheila were on the bed with the gun
between them, and I asked how they were shot, and he went like this. I do
not know who told me. I am sorry. Maybe it was a mistake. Asking me now.
I cannot remember who told me.

Q. What I have done is this: I have shown you a statement in which you said that
the police told you that?

 A. Yes.

Q. And it is a statement that you made in September last year?

A. Yes.

Q. A month and a day or so after the event?

A. Yes.

Q. And at that time were you able to remember that the police had given you that
information, because it appears in your statement?

A. It appears so, but
there were a lot of people in the house at the time and I was asking a lot of
people a lot of questions. I am trying to listen at the same time and make
coffee.

Q. And you did have a discussion with Julie, did you not? I am not suggesting
anything improper in this?

A. She said Sheila did say she was a white, and
I thought she said "wedge", because I did not know what she was talking about,
and I said to somebody "Julie said Sheila was a white wedge. What is that?"
and she said "She meant a white witch, I suppose."

Q. You told Julie that Sheila had been found with the bible on her chest?

A. I cannot remember. You are asking me now, and there are certain things
I can remember now. It is very difficult. It was along time ago and I am
only trying to tell the truth.


I have already read the above - so what? She said that Julie COULD have told her. It doesn't back up anything you have said.

How have you debunked the FACT that none of the relatives mentioned a hit man? You've skirted the issue because you know it doesn't fit your little theory (which isn't new by the way!).
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Caroline

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #950 on: May 26, 2016, 11:34:PM »
Newspapers also ran stories on the 8th of August referring to a single shot to Sheila, I wonder if a bible was mentioned?

Suddenly this so called misinformation isn't as unique as David is making out in his 'facts'.

None of them mentioned a hit man though  ;)
Few people have the imagination for reality

guest2181

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #951 on: May 26, 2016, 11:36:PM »
None of them mentioned a hit man though  ;)

Nope, not a single one of 'em.

I'm sure we discussed all of this several years ago.  :-\

Offline Caroline

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #952 on: May 26, 2016, 11:40:PM »
Nope, not a single one of 'em.

I'm sure we discussed all of this several years ago.  :-\

More than once no doubt.
Few people have the imagination for reality

guest154

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #953 on: May 27, 2016, 12:04:AM »
Lookouts claims come from Poppys blog as usual.  ;D ;D ;D Just found them.

http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/jeremy-bamberessex-police-and-missing.html


 After the trial and Jeremy's conviction, Mugford moved to Canada, eventually marrying, thus changing her name to Smerchanski.  There are two children from the marriage. I have checked on the accuracy of the following which is that after Mugford/Smerchanski became religious and confessed to her husband of her involvement and collusion in the resulting miscarriage of justice in Jeremy's case, he divorced her.  It is believed that she will be subpoenaed in the event of an appeal.

guest154

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #954 on: May 27, 2016, 12:08:AM »
Poppy goes on to say

  Recently I have begun to contemplate whether it was in fact Essex Police Fire Arms Team who fired the second shot into Sheila's neck even though she may have already been dead, as documents show that over fifty other people entered the crime scene over the following day and that the scene was used as a training exercise with the gun being moved on and off of Sheila's body.  Plus it seems strange that the original shattered bullet was miraculously made whole and changed size by the time of trial, perhaps another reason for the denial of the original logs of 'one dead male, one dead female in kitchen' and the non-disclosure of other events? Well, I say, 'non-disclosure' but that is just the phrase used to make the act seem more justifiable, in fact it means deliberately lying about events in order to fool judge and jury.

 ;D

guest2181

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #955 on: May 27, 2016, 12:21:AM »
Lookouts claims come from Poppys blog as usual.  ;D ;D ;D Just found them.

http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/jeremy-bamberessex-police-and-missing.html


 After the trial and Jeremy's conviction, Mugford moved to Canada, eventually marrying, thus changing her name to Smerchanski.  There are two children from the marriage. I have checked on the accuracy of the following which is that after Mugford/Smerchanski became religious and confessed to her husband of her involvement and collusion in the resulting miscarriage of justice in Jeremy's case, he divorced her.  It is believed that she will be subpoenaed in the event of an appeal.

Figured as much.  ::)

I hope you don't mean Poppy Millers blog?  :o

Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #956 on: May 27, 2016, 06:46:AM »



COLP statement.I DO NOT USE SLANDER !! I DID NOT USE HOOKER---------------YOU DID.Which goes to prove that YOU'RE the gossiper---------dangerous people who put words/lies in others mouths.
It's a known FACT that JB obtained drugs from Canada--------and it WAS before she'd met JB.


Well didn't SHE do well? At school until she was 17/18, probably still just 19 when she met him AND having to do part time work to fund her degree yet she can afford to take herself on a jolly to Canada!!!!?

Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #957 on: May 27, 2016, 06:56:AM »
Poppy goes on to say

  Recently I have begun to contemplate whether it was in fact Essex Police Fire Arms Team who fired the second shot into Sheila's neck even though she may have already been dead, as documents show that over fifty other people entered the crime scene over the following day and that the scene was used as a training exercise with the gun being moved on and off of Sheila's body.  Plus it seems strange that the original shattered bullet was miraculously made whole and changed size by the time of trial, perhaps another reason for the denial of the original logs of 'one dead male, one dead female in kitchen' and the non-disclosure of other events? Well, I say, 'non-disclosure' but that is just the phrase used to make the act seem more justifiable, in fact it means deliberately lying about events in order to fool judge and jury.

 ;D
Lookouts claims come from Poppys blog as usual.  ;D ;D ;D Just found them.

http://poppymeze.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/jeremy-bamberessex-police-and-missing.html


 After the trial and Jeremy's conviction, Mugford moved to Canada, eventually marrying, thus changing her name to Smerchanski.  There are two children from the marriage. I have checked on the accuracy of the following which is that after Mugford/Smerchanski became religious and confessed to her husband of her involvement and collusion in the resulting miscarriage of justice in Jeremy's case, he divorced her.  It is believed that she will be subpoenaed in the event of an appeal.


Well, well, well, QUELLE surprise!!!!! And in the above we have the veracity of Lookout's assertion!!!!!!! You couldn't make it up, could you?......................Oh, wait a minute.........................can't you just see the headlines!!!! POPPY MEZE frees Jeremy Bamber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ::) ::) ::)

Nice one, Mat ;)

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #958 on: May 27, 2016, 09:46:AM »
And ? Was I lying or making it up ?NO. I have verified that info myself !!

But it doesn't end there !! However,I'm keeping it under my hat.

Offline David1819

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Re: Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath
« Reply #959 on: May 27, 2016, 09:50:AM »
I have already read the above - so what? She said that Julie COULD have told her. It doesn't back up anything you have said.

How have you debunked the FACT that none of the relatives mentioned a hit man? You've skirted the issue because you know it doesn't fit your little theory (which isn't new by the way!).

No mention in AEs notes or RBs diary of Julie Mugford telling them anything. Had Julie told them anything she would have to have told them the story of Mathew Macdonald and they didn't. Your debunking your own theories now

Ann Eaton at trial confirms the police told her that Shelia was found on the bed with the bible on her chest. Its even in her notes with NO mention of Julie



MR. RIVLIN: Let remind you. Is it not right that one of the police officers
told you that Uncle Nevill was in the kitchen near the coal scuttle, that the
twins were in their beds, shot?

A. Yes.

Q. That Aunt June Bamber and Sheila were both on the bed, shot, with Sheila having
a bible on her chest, with the gun beside her?

A. Yes.


MR RIVLIN: Do you see that? The third paragraph. Does it read as follows:
"One of the officers told me that Uncle Nevill Bamber was in the kitchen near
the coal scuttle. The twins were in their bed, shot, Aunt June and Sheila
Bamber both on the bed, shot, with Sheila Bamber having a bible on her
chest with the gun beside her"?

A. Yes.

Q. Does that help you to remember, Mrs. Eaton? You did say that to the police?

A. Yes, I must have done, because it is written down here. I can remember


You admit you don't believe everything Julie sais thus you believe her to be a liar yet you try and defend her as a credible witness? You believe her about MM because his name cannot be traced back to the relatives yet the idea of an accomplice and the £2000 payment can and the idea of MM being a hitman comes from MM himself and not Jeremy. You believe Julie got all the information the relatives had from Jeremy simply because the relatives did not mention an accomplice by name?  ???

I guess I cannot reason you out of a position that you did not reason yourself into in the first place