A brilliant example of Bamber changing his story.

[vidvic]

One has to see the bigger picture in order to understand it all.  I do know that PE farmed some land that belonged to the company.  I also know that JB had to find 80K to pay for death duties.  I know JB asked about the money from his father's wallet between 4 to 500 pounds it was claimed.  I don't want to make excuses Vic, I want the truth from all sides....I don't know much about the land or its assets...or any legalities that surrounded the estate. I only glean form official documents that relate to the case.

Does he say how much he wanted from AE and does he expand on it in other pages?   

I think you're setting world records for 'missing the point'

[Lugg]

it has been well documented by mike over the last billion years Grahame. Various claims that the family were bankrupt, owed Bamber half their farm, etc etc.

I was just wondering (taking Mike out of the equation) Where your story of this "secret" land deal came from? Is there some official documentation about it that it actually took place? Or is it what the relatives have told you?
By the way Vic, I was quite looking forward to reading one of the letters JB sent to the relatives. As this would have balanced things out quite well. As it is all we have is one person's word against another's.

[Patti]

I will get shouted down for saying this...but here goes:

Nevill bought land from John, which Peter was farming, but Peter did not know it did not belong to his brother. Jeremy found out after his visit with Basil Cook and therefore asked for the money back from farming on land that they did not own.  Jeremy must have thought that if they wished to continue to farming that land, then they must pay for it, in order for them to continue farming on it....All guess work, but quite feasible.   

[vidvic]

I was just wondering (taking Mike out of the equation) Where your story of this "secret" land deal came from? Is there some official documentation about it that it actually took place? Or is it what the relatives have told you?
By the way Vic, I was quite looking forward to reading one of the letters JB sent to the relatives. As this would have balanced things out quite well. As it is all we have is one person's word against another's.

I think it is to Ann and Peter's great credit that they have never gone public with some of the letters they've recieved from Bamber. If the letters had been sent the other way round, then i'm damn sure you'd have seen them!
Your line of argument here is deeply flawed, as it has been a stick to accuse the relatives of having a motive for framing Bamber since they discovered documentation about the deal in 2003. If you'd prefer to believe there was no deal, then don't let me stop you.

[Patti]

I think you're setting world records for 'missing the point'

maybe I should keep  then!

[Bridget]

I will get shouted down for saying this...but here goes:

Nevill bought land from John, which Peter was farming, but Peter did not know it did not belong to his brother. Jeremy found out after his visit with Basil Cook and therefore asked for the money back from farming on land that they did not own.  Jeremy must have thought that if they wished to continue to farming that land, then they must pay for it, in order for them to continue farming on it....All guess work, but quite feasible.   

I disagree, it's quite common for farmers to farm land not owned by them (normally by some sort of lease agreement), and to farm land owned by other family members. There would be no expectation for them to buy it.

[vidvic]

I will get shouted down for saying this...but here goes:

Nevill bought land from John, which Peter was farming, but Peter did not know it did not belong to his brother. Jeremy found out after his visit with Basil Cook and therefore asked for the money back from farming on land that they did not own.  Jeremy must have thought that if they wished to continue to farming that land, then they must pay for it, in order for them to continue farming on it....All guess work, but quite feasible.   

I do not understand why you are trying to find an alternative to the truth. You are muddying the waters deliberately i'm afraid.

[vidvic]

I disagree, it's quite common for farmers to farm land not owned by them (normally by some sort of lease agreement), and to farm land owned by other family members. There would be no expectation for them to buy it.

Peter has farmed much land not owned by him for many years including Nevill's.

[Patti]

I disagree, it's quite common for farmers to farm land not owned by them (normally by some sort of lease agreement), and to farm land owned by other family members. There would be no expectation for them to buy it.

But what if Jeremy called in that favour/agreement that Nevill was giving to PE in letting them farm the land to help them out? without knowing the real facts, I think we will go round in circles with this...crop circles 

[killingeve]

Many have discussed the 'secret' land deal, where Nevill bought a piece of land with the intention of selling it back to Peter at cost, when Peter would be in a better position to pay for it.

Unfortunately Nevill was killed before the deal could be completed, so in effect, Nevill owned an extra piece of land on his death.

Confirmation of what I was saying at the time comes from Bamber's own website, I quote;

"Peter’s father had died and left this land to both Peter and his brother John. [2]  But John had plans to sell his share of the land to property developers. In a bid to help Peter and Ann, Nevill Bamber secretly bought this land from John Eaton. There was no love lost between Nevill and John and at a later stage local people recall John and Nevill arguing over land in the local pub. Nevill claimed that John had overcharged him for the land and this resulted (according to witnesses) in a drunken John Eaton punching Nevill Bamber.[3]
 
You can imagine Ann and Peter’s concern to know that the land that had previously been secured by Nevill was now going into Jeremy’s control and being sold on."

on 11th May 2009, Bamber writes to Mike Tesko, explaining why he believes Ann helped frame him for the murders. In the letter he claims that he called Ann on 9th Aug 1985 to ask for his money back and that this would have bankrupted Ann and Peter, hence the motive for the framing...

What money? What bankruptcy?

I believe this to be a good example of Bamber telling porkies to Mike who then presents them as evidence on the forum.

Hi Vidic

Sorry if I'm a bit thick but I don't understand?  On 9th Aug JB was an innocent man.  NB had purchased land to help out PE and AE by loaning them the dosh or purchasing the land on their behalf and they would purchase it off NB at a later date?  JB wanted to call in the loan to sort out the inheritance tax?  Is this correct?  If so was a legal contract drafted or just a gentlemans handshake? 

When JB wrote the above he had spent, rightly or wrongly, some 24 years in prison.  Not too sure we can expect 100% rational thinking    Must be to some extent institutionalised 

I personally think the relatives were just unaware of the seriousness of SC's mental illness as per my earlier post:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3758.msg152032.html#msg152032

[Patti]

I do not understand why you are trying to find an alternative to the truth. You are muddying the waters deliberately i'm afraid.

I am only muddying it Vic, because you are disagreeing with....I am trying to understand from both sides and sometimes it gets difficult. There is nothing deliberate about me, I'm afraid. So I will let you get on with it....You have posted a thread, surely you must expect some comments form all sides....I will leave you too it...

[vidvic]

But what if Jeremy called in that favour/agreement that Nevill was giving to PE in letting them farm the land to help them out? without knowing the real facts, I think we will go round in circles with this...crop circles 

If you look back at past subjects Patti, you will see ample proof that the deal existed. I know the facts Patti, you're choosing not to see the fib.

[Bridget]

Hi Vidic

Sorry if I'm a bit thick but I don't understand?  On 9th Aug JB was an innocent man.  NB had purchased land to help out PE and AE by loaning them the dosh or purchasing the land on their behalf and they would purchase it off NB at a later date?  JB wanted to call in the loan to sort out the inheritance tax?  Is this correct?  If so was a legal contract drafted or just a gentlemans handshake? 

When JB wrote the above he had spent, rightly or wrongly, some 24 years in prison.  Not too sure we can expect 100% rational thinking    Must be to some extent institutionalised 

I personally think the relatives were just unaware of the seriousness of SC's mental illness as per my earlier post:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3758.msg152032.html#msg152032

There was no loan, Neville purchased the land in his own name. All there was was an agreement to sell it to Peter at some later date - how does that translate into Ann and Peter owing the estate £100,000 or whatever he said?

[vidvic]

Hi Vidic

Sorry if I'm a bit thick but I don't understand?  On 9th Aug JB was an innocent man.  NB had purchased land to help out PE and AE by loaning them the dosh or purchasing the land on their behalf and they would purchase it off NB at a later date?  JB wanted to call in the loan to sort out the inheritance tax?  Is this correct?  If so was a legal contract drafted or just a gentlemans handshake? 

When JB wrote the above he had spent, rightly or wrongly, some 24 years in prison.  Not too sure we can expect 100% rational thinking    Must be to some extent institutionalised 

I personally think the relatives were just unaware of the seriousness of SC's mental illness as per my earlier post:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3758.msg152032.html#msg152032

Ok, maybe it's me....
I'll try again.
Bamber and Co have claimed for many years that a reason for Ann helping to frame him was a LOAN that his father made to Ann and Peter before he died. I have always contended that it wasn't a LOAN, that Nevill bought the land and would one day sell it to Peter.
When Nevill died he owned the land. No loan existed.
Someone on the official site has written a piece where they confirm the deal as I had always argued it.
In a letter to Mike from Bamber you can see him claim that he phoned Ann to ask for his money back. Two points here. 1} There was no money to pay back 2} Bamber didn't know the loan existed until way after 9th August 1985.
Following from this letter were claims on this site that Ann owed Nevill anything from thousands to hundreds of thousands, to the entire family being bankrupt.
This all came from this letter which can not possibly be true. It is a lie.

[killingeve]

There was no loan, Neville purchased the land in his own name. All there was was an agreement to sell it to Peter at some later date - how does that translate into Ann and Peter owing the estate £100,000 or whatever he said?

Hi Bridget

So no legal contract just a gentlemans agreement that PE would purchase at a later unspecified date.  What, if anything, was in it for NB then?  How did NB finance the deal, cash or loan or combi?  Without a legal contract I guess we don't know what terms were agreed?