residue!!

[Steve_uk]

Hi Tom, please forgive me for disagreeing with you, but I think the experiment of several people firing bullets with unprotected clothing was done in all good faith for it did not mimick the scene it was supposed to have done. Sheila wore no gloves or protective clothing. 

I find it impossible to believe that a woman was in a room where 14 shots were fired and yet has no residue on her at all.  Can I stress that Elliott only did a visual test on her nightdress, no swabs were ever taken. 

Her hand swabs DRH/33 which were taken to lab were rejected, because they arrived with rifles/guns, so therefore run the risk of contamination.  These swabs would not have been re-submitted to the lab because the lab would have still rejected them. 

However, the swabs were re-submitted under exhibit DRH/44 this exhibit number was used twice because it also relates to the bible.  On the re-submission the police did not put on the HoLab form that it was a re-submission, therefore the lab excepted it as a new submission. 

Here is my argument.  It does not matter if Sheila did not shoot anyone, she would have still had residue on her clothing and on her right hand.  Reside spreads like dust, in some cases it can spread for several yards. Residue would have been all over the main bedroom, carpets, bedclothes, on the shooter and on Sheila.  She had taken two shots, there would in no doubt had been reside on her clothing....No proper test was done! She was photographed holding the rifle where residue would be most profound and yet no residue were found on the swabs. 

If the swabs had been retaken, which they should have been, then this would have been done after the PM....and Sheila would have been washed down...hence no residue on her hands....Whoever took the 2nd swabs would have known this....

Sorry this is long 

About the bullets.  Well each bullet comes with a weight and when fired it loses that said weight. If It is hits something hard it can either mushroom of fragment.  When you weigh up all the fragments taken from a body and piece it together like a jigzaw, it can make one whole bullet.  In Nevill's case there were too many little fragments and not enough damaged/half/weighty fragments that could weigh up to 8 bullets.

1.19 is a very small fragment that Fletcher regarded as a bullet. Its normal weight would have been just over 4.29? There is no way that this fragment should be regarded as a full bullet, because it might have belonged to another fragment found in the same place of 1.95, which he classes also as a bullet....It is very complicated to write this down...lol  but I have noticed a pattern with the rifle....of which I am not prepared to post about.

I don't thin Fletcher did mishandle the rifle, the rifle was said to malfunction when he tested it.  I am not a gin expert, but my question is this: If the rifle malfunctioned, then was it likely to get overheated when used? 

Sorry this is drawn out, but I am a quiet person of the forum...lol   

I surmise from this that Sheila was asleep in her bedroom during Jeremy's rampage and only came on the scene after the parents had been killed.

[Patti]

I surmise from this that Sheila was asleep in her bedroom during Jeremy's rampage and only came on the scene after the parents had been killed.

It doesn't change the fact that she was photographed touching the rifle...does it? 

[Steve_uk]

It doesn't change the fact that she was photographed touching the rifle...does it? 

Jeremy pressed one of her fingers on the gun,but of course had Sheila been on her armaments paroxysm including 25 shots and a struggle with her father there should have been far more prints on the murder weapon.

[Patti]

Jeremy pressed one of her fingers on the gun,but of course had Sheila been on her armaments paroxysm including 25 shots and a struggle with her father there should have been far more prints on the murder weapon.

There were loads of prints on the rifle Steve. One print of Sheila's on the butt of the rifle pointing towards the barrel and one print of Jeremy's near the breech.  Other prints were not conclusive, but they were there....Please don;t forget that the police had moved the rifle several times themselves and also made it safe...they didn't bag it up straight away did they, like they should have done...No they removed it made it safe, placed it by the window, then placed it back on her body....All because there were what appears to be wiped finger marks on her nighty....and they wanted to photograph it....what makes me mad is that there was no need to replace the rifle at all, they already took the photo's....and i think this is relevant....why take extra shots of her body after removing the rifle in the first place....so her right hand touched that rifle more than once and there is no way out of that fact.....is there?   

[Steve_uk]

Is this another myth created and perpetuated by myself or will you be told once and for all that there were six prints only on the murder weapon:one of Sheila's,two of Jeremy's and three unidentified prints probably from Police handling that Wednesday morning.

The one solitary fingerprint found on the murder weapon makes it ludicrous to suggest that a woman in psychosis who has engaged in a struggle for control of this weapon does not leave more prints. It does however confirm Julie's statement that Jeremy told her a glove came off in the fight with Nevill which necessitated him wiping the gun clean at that stage.

[Patti]

Is this another myth created and perpetuated by myself or will you be told once and for all that there were six prints only on the murder weapon:one of Sheila's,two of Jeremy's and three unidentified prints probably from Police handling that Wednesday morning.

The one solitary fingerprint found on the murder weapon makes it ludicrous to suggest that a woman in psychosis who has engaged in a struggle for control of this weapon does not leave more prints. It does however confirm Julie's statement that Jeremy told her a glove came off in the fight with Nevill which necessitated him wiping the gun clean at that stage.

I hear you stamping your feet, but in all fairness Steve, in return, I will only say this once more.

You are suggesting that the rifle was wiped.  That is false, for forensics would have picked that up on that straight away and they didn't.  There were other prints on the rifle which not conclusive. There was one print from Sheila and one from Jeremy near the breach. 

The glove is hearsay.....for if it did come off, then he would have popped the bloody thing back on. Simples! 

[Jane]

Is this another myth created and perpetuated by myself or will you be told once and for all that there were six prints only on the murder weapon:one of Sheila's,two of Jeremy's and three unidentified prints probably from Police handling that Wednesday morning.

The one solitary fingerprint found on the murder weapon makes it ludicrous to suggest that a woman in psychosis who has engaged in a struggle for control of this weapon does not leave more prints. It does however confirm Julie's statement that Jeremy told her a glove came off in the fight with Nevill which necessitated him wiping the gun clean at that stage.

Steve, I don't know if the italicised words are quotes, you don't make it clear, so it appears that you are being discourteous by suggesting to a lady that she "be told once and for all". As such phraseology is quite unlike you, I apologize in advance if I'm mistaken.

[Patti]

Steve, I don't know if the italicised words are quotes, you don't make it clear, so it appears that you are being discourteous by suggesting to a lady that she "be told once and for all". As such phraseology is quite unlike you, I apologize in advance if I'm mistaken.

He is alright April....He knows I like him really....

[tyler]

If Jeremy had wiped the rifle "clean" then there wouldn't have been any prints there at all!

[Steve_uk]

If Jeremy had wiped the rifle "clean" then there wouldn't have been any prints there at all!

That's a good point tyler and one which DS Stan Jones made to Jeremy on Wednesday 10 September 1985. I think the discrepancy lies in Jeremy not removing all traces of his prints when he did wipe the gun down,and leaving of necessity one print of his sister's to make it look as if the weapon had been discharged by her hand.

[maggie]

Jeremy pressed one of her fingers on the gun,but of course had Sheila been on her armaments paroxysm including 25 shots and a struggle with her father there should have been far more prints on the murder weapon.

Hi Steve, Scott Lomax claims the police examined numerous other firearms at WHF  and Sheila's fingerprints were found on a 12 bore shotgun. Could this be THE original gun she had according to Jeremy's account of Ralph's phone call? This was not mentioned in court as they were focussing on the nurder weapon but it certainly proves Sheila had handled it. Who knows maybe she did give that one up, maybe that was the cause of the gunshot heard by neighbors around 10pm and later she got wound up again and picked up the anshutz? Just a thought steve???

[maggie]

That's a good point tyler and one which DS Stan Jones made to Jeremy on Wednesday 10 September 1985. I think the discrepancy lies in Jeremy not removing all traces of his prints when he did wipe the gun down,and leaving of necessity one print of his sister's to make it look as if the weapon had been discharged by her hand.

Steve do you have any suggestions to how tSheila"s fingerprints got onto the 12 bore shotgun??

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve, Scott Lomax claims the police examined numerous other firearms at WHF  and Sheila's fingerprints were found on a 12 bore shotgun. Could this be THE original gun she had according to Jeremy's account of Ralph's phone call? This was not mentioned in court as they were focussing on the nurder weapon but it certainly proves Sheila had handled it. Who knows maybe she did give that one up, maybe that was the cause of the gunshot heard by neighbors around 10pm and later she got wound up again and picked up the anshutz? Just a thought steve???

Scott Lomax claims many things,but it's all worth discussing. I can't see myself the murders having taken place at the time you suggest with intervals in between,because the purported telephone call from Nevill places Sheila with a gun at 3:26am and if the murders did come from her hand she is in a state of psychosis not really knowing what she is doing,whilst the state of the victims suggest to me that they had very little if any chance of retaliation.

[maggie]

Scott Lomax claims many things,but it's all worth discussing. I can't see myself the murders having taken place at the time you suggest with intervals in between,because the purported telephone call from Nevill places Sheila with a gun at 3:26am and if the murders did come from her hand she is in a state of psychosis not really knowing what she is doing,whilst the state of the victims suggest to me that they had very little if any chance of retaliation.

Dont understand your point Steve. I was just asking how you thought Sheila's fingerprints got onto a 12 bore shotgun.
I realise my question was a bit cluttered, however I was not suggesting that Sheila killed anyone with it. Just wondering if she pulled the trigger as a gunshot was heard much earlier.?

[Steve_uk]

Dont understand your point Steve. I was just asking how you thought Sheila's fingerprints got onto a 12 bore shotgun.
I realise my question was a bit cluttered, however I was not suggesting that Sheila killed anyone with it. Just wondering if she pulled the trigger as a gunshot was heard much earlier.?

The gunshot is a mystery,brought up by Scott Lomax and worthy of consideration. I feel that the timing is wrong for it to have been Sheila priming herself for murder when all indications are the slaughter was carried out within a short space of time. Had Nevill heard the discharge of a gun he would have had the warning he needed to arm himself or release the panic button,neither of which he did.