Who would Jeremy have been most happy with?

[Steve_uk]

Why should it have been on their say-so though Steve.? He'd been put as a Cat B,but still imprisoned whichever way you look at it,so why do you think the relatives objected.? They were certainly keeping their ear to the ground on that one.

I think they were expressing their interest in the case,and after the mistakes by Police in the initial inquiry I think the top brass had no choice but to defer to their wishes and avoid any more forthcoming unwelcome publicity.

[lookout]

I think they were expressing their interest in the case,and after the mistakes by Police in the initial inquiry I think the top brass had no choice but to defer to their wishes and avoid any more forthcoming unwelcome publicity.

Steve,,it would appear that the police have followed the wishes of the relatives all along,,,which I can't help feeling suspicious about. Nor can anyone else.

[Steve_uk]

Steve,,it would appear that the police have followed the wishes of the relatives all along,,,which I can't help feeling suspicious about. Nor can anyone else.

After the decision to remove DCI Taff Jones that was true. But what strength of character it took from them to get so far in the first place..

[lookout]

After the decision to remove DCI Taff Jones that was true. But what strength of character it took from them to get so far in the first place..

Without the outside interference,,who were neither use nor ornament,,things would have remained as they did,,,and this is why I think that's there's more to this case than meets the eye,,but everyone needed a scape-goat,so Jeremy fitted the bill.

[big-goolies]

scape-goat ? surely JB was in the clear as the police believed it was murder/suicide on behalf of SC

[Steve_uk]

In reply to #14 I had at first ruled out any parallels with Ted Bundy,but a reading of Wikipedia elicited the following:

1) Ted is born of uncertain parentage and is labelled "The Bastard" by contemporaries.
2)He was raised by his grandmother who periodically underwent electroconvulsive therapy for depression.
3)He complained about his stepfather,telling a girlfriend "he didn't make much money".
4)He was arrested twice on suspicion of burglary.
5)He had a love-hate relationship with one of his early girlfriends,Stephanie Brooks.
6)Divided professional psychiatric opinion.
7)Always careful not to leave forensic evidence at the scene of a crime and refused to confess right until the end.

[maggie]

In reply to #14 I had at first ruled out any parallels with Ted Bundy,but a reading of Wikipedia elicited the following:

1) Ted is born of uncertain parentage and is labelled "The Bastard" by contemporaries.
2)He was raised by his grandmother who periodically underwent electroconvulsive therapy for depression.
3)He complained about his stepfather,telling a girlfriend "he didn't make much money".
4)He was arrested twice on suspicion of burglary.
5)He had a love-hate relationship with one of his early girlfriends,Stephanie Brooks.
6)Divided professional psychiatric opinion.
7)Always careful not to leave forensic evidence at the scene of a crime and refused to confess right until the end.

Just looked up Ted Bundy Steve. I only needed to read a few paragraphs to realise this was a man with severe disorders. How on earth can you compare JB with Ted Bundy.....bit far fetched Steve . I think you are clutching at a very thin straw!!

[Lugg]

scape-goat ? surely JB was in the clear as the police believed it was murder/suicide on behalf of SC

I believe "scapegoat" is probably the wrong word ? But what does need to be emphasised is (although I don't wish to accuse the relatives of such things personally. But it is in the minds of some) that the relatives had a motive in continually pressing Taff Jones with the silencer evidence (which was I believe the reason that he was removed) and that was because (1) They disliked Jeremy. This is evident to me. and (2) They didn't want him to get the inheritance. Which remember did not only consist of £500,000. But also the caravan park (this opinion can be backed up by the court case concerning Jeremy's share in the park, when he had to sell his share to another family member in order to meet the costs of the case) This caravan park note, is worth so much now that if they choose to sell it is beyond the reach of most individuals pockets. People tend to forget the caravan park when the inheritance is mentioned.
So I would replace the word "scapegoat" with the word "motive". By mentioning motive I am in no way accusing the relatives of deliberately going out of their way to pervert the course of justice. What I am saying is that they certainly had motive for doing so. I am using the imotive word in a passive sense just to emphasise the fact that IF they were so inclined there was opportunity for them to do this?

[maggie]

Yes Lugg, it is true that human nature has the capacity to believe that which it would like to believe. I am sure the extended family were devastated and another symptom of trauma is a need to get control. Unfortunately, Jeremy became the focus of their need to control. No doubt various reasons apart from the obvious one that they didnt like him much . Even their dislike of JB chould have stemmed unconsciously from the fact he was 'not one of them' I wonder if the same events had ocurred and Jeremy would have had the Speakman blood coursing through his veins whether they would have found it so easy to accuse him?
I'd like to bet they wouldn't, tho they will always deny it and really believe it. imo

[campion]

  Steve uk, Whomever you are, please keep digging the 'deep hole'. IMO you don't require a bigger shovel.
  It reminds me of 1WW, Bairnsfeather's (of The Bystander) cartoon:-  'If you know of a better 'ole, go to it!'.

[maggie]

  Steve uk, Whomever you are, please keep digging the 'deep hole'. IMO you don't require a bigger shovel.
  It reminds me of 1WW, Bairnsfeather's (of The Bystander) cartoon:-  'If you know of a better 'ole, go to it!'.

[killingeve]

I was speculating as to the nature and character of Jeremy's relationships and have come up with a short list of four candidates. It is to be noted that I have expressly disregarded the succession of one night stands,three in a bed romps at Bourtree Cottage and other similar dalliances to come up with a short list of four:

a) Suzette Ford

His first and possibly deepest love when a Jeremy devoid of and unharmed by the noxious substances which were to play such a pivotal role in his life for the worse, was at his physical peak. Such a relief to find a mature yet bubbly woman who fulfilled Jeremy's physical side and who satisfied this role without demanding anything from him. The downside of course was that she came with the baggage of marriage and children,yet this was possibly an attraction for Jeremy who was putting a toe in the water in social mores and did not want to commit. By all intents and purposes he had a good relationship with her three children and was devastated when the efforts to conceive a child of their own ended in miscarriage.

b) Julie Mugford

After Suzette went back to her husband Jeremy possibly wants a foil as a partner rather than a rival. Has been dumped by a blonde so chooses a brunette. Julie is guarded in his presence and lets Jeremy take the lead. She is physically attracted to him before she becomes aware of his inheritance. She is eager to please at all times and goes out of the way to be the ersatz mother Jeremy never had. She is blinded to his evil scheme by wanting to please him,and thrown off the scent by what she perceives as his practical jokes which she puts down to immaturity,yet she is willing to stay with him after having a bad experience with a male member of her family.

c) Anji Greaves

Jeremy had dated her sister I believe,but Anji wasn't interested until she got wind of Jeremy's forthcoming inheritance. Criticized Julie for "giving him mouth" after the murders when he needed support. Dumped him after the guilty verdict.

d) Brett Collins

A homosexual lover of Jeremy who caught him unawares as a young and inexperienced foreigner who never had any love or attention. Difficult to see what the attraction was as Brett's business experience turned out to running a sandwich bar in Auckland. He did have antiques knowledge,but let's be generous and say Jeremy was not at this stage planning to sell the family silver at Sotheby's and therefore needing a partner in crime.

Hi Steve_uk

None of them.  He was only 24 yoa and had he not have been wrongfully incarcerated should have played the field until he was at least 30 yoa.   

JB is on record as saying he had two girlfriends.  I assume he's referring to Suzette and JM.  The affair with Anji Greaves was brief due to his wrongful incaceration.  Who knows how this might have developed 

There's no evidence JB was promiscuous.  Where's the evidence of pulling 'class' at top London nightspots?  Wishful thinking perhaps...

According to JM's wit stat JB denied any sexual encounter at Bourtree where Charles Marsden was present.  Whether an encounter took place or not or was somewhere in between who cares?  JB hadn't made any firm commitment to JM in any shape or form.  They were simply boyfriend and girlfriend who spent a lot of time apart: JM in London and JB in Essex.  They had a relationship in their very early 20's for 18 months plus and it ended like millions all over the world, except JM didn't see it for what it was and JB paid the ultimate price.

JB is on record as saying he has never had a homosexual relationship.  Again whether he did or didn't or somewhere in between who cares?  According to EP when JB was arrested early morning at Sheila's flat (note 'Sheila's flat' not 'smart flat in a fashionable part of London') JB and Brett were found in separate beds.  If they were lovers one might have expected to have found them cuddled up in the same bed  .  Now you're going to tell us that JM said JB was a prolific snorer 

Who might Colin have been most happy with:

Sandra Ellison

Jill

Sheila Caffell

Girl from office had bunk up with at Sheila's 21st

Jan

Heather

Current wife

I hope his current wife 

[Patti]

Hi Steve_uk

None of them.  He was only 24 yoa and had he not have been wrongfully incarcerated should have played the field until he was at least 30 yoa.   

JB is on record as saying he had two girlfriends.  I assume he's referring to Suzette and JM.  The affair with Anji Greaves was brief due to his wrongful incaceration.  Who knows how this might have developed 

There's no evidence JB was promiscuous.  Where's the evidence of pulling 'class' at top London nightspots?  Wishful thinking perhaps...

According to JM's wit stat JB denied any sexual encounter at Bourtree where Charles Marsden was present.  Whether an encounter took place or not or was somewhere in between who cares?  JB hadn't made any firm commitment to JM in any shape or form.  They were simply boyfriend and girlfriend who spent a lot of time apart: JM in London and JB in Essex.  They had a relationship in their very early 20's for 18 months plus and it ended like millions all over the world, except JM didn't see it for what it was and JB paid the ultimate price.

JB is on record as saying he has never had a homosexual relationship.  Again whether he did or didn't or somewhere in between who cares?  According to EP when JB was arrested early morning at Sheila's flat (note 'Sheila's flat' not 'smart flat in a fashionable part of London') JB and Brett were found in separate beds.  If they were lovers one might have expected to have found them cuddled up in the same bed  .  Now you're going to tell us that JM said JB was a prolific snorer 

Who might Colin have been most happy with:

Sandra Ellison

Jill

Sheila Caffell

Girl from office had bunk up with at Sheila's 21st

Jan

Heather

Current wife

I hope his current wife 

Well posted NUNU.....Too many things get twisted and sensationalized....

I wonder who I would have been happier with? Not the turkey nicker that's sure lol 

[killingeve]

In reply to #14 I had at first ruled out any parallels with Ted Bundy,but a reading of Wikipedia elicited the following:

1) Ted is born of uncertain parentage and is labelled "The Bastard" by contemporaries.
2)He was raised by his grandmother who periodically underwent electroconvulsive therapy for depression.
3)He complained about his stepfather,telling a girlfriend "he didn't make much money".
4)He was arrested twice on suspicion of burglary.
5)He had a love-hate relationship with one of his early girlfriends,Stephanie Brooks.
6)Divided professional psychiatric opinion.
7)Always careful not to leave forensic evidence at the scene of a crime and refused to confess right until the end.

Hi Steve_uk

I see you've now moved away from Oswald and Breivik to Bundy. 

As far as I can see the only other high profile case that is similar to JB is that of David Bain who was subsequently acquitted  .

[Steve_uk]

  Steve uk, Whomever you are, please keep digging the 'deep hole'. IMO you don't require a bigger shovel.
  It reminds me of 1WW, Bairnsfeather's (of The Bystander) cartoon:-  'If you know of a better 'ole, go to it!'.

Let's not go down the cartoon route again..suffice to say the person involved did herself no favours last time one was depicted. As for Ted Bundy,the parallels mentioned are valid.