Nevill's Premonition?

[curiousessex]

Hi curiousessex  maybe two different rifles were used in the shootings.  One with silencer fitted one without.

Do you mean all victims will have been shot by two people at the same time. These two people were using two different guns one of which had a silencer fitted and the other one without a silencer fitted?

Could the two shooters have been both Jeremy and Sheila with Jeremy then turning his gun (with or without a silencer fitted) on Sheila?

[susan]

curiousessex  you have lost me but that is not difficult.  What I meant was could a killer have used two different rifles. If and I am not saying this happened Sheila killed the family with a rifle with a silencer on.  Then used another rifle to heat in the Aga to make the burn marks on Ralphs back then the same rifle to kill herself.  With this theory I have to ask myself why was the silencer removed and hid in the back of the cupbaord.  Not making sense and I am more confused than ever now.

[curiousessex]

curiousessex  you have lost me but that is not difficult.  What I meant was could a killer have used two different rifles. If and I am not saying this happened Sheila killed the family with a rifle with a silencer on.  Then used another rifle to heat in the Aga to make the burn marks on Ralphs back then the same rifle to kill herself.  With this theory I have to ask myself why was the silencer removed and hid in the back of the cupbaord.  Not making sense and I am more confused than ever now.

Susan

Not according to the defence.

The defence and Jeremy's permanent position is that Sheila and Sheila alone committed the act and then killed herself. Sheila had used a single gun Jeremy had foolishly left out having loaded a full magazine for the gun together with leaving an amble supply of ammunition in the kitchen having not shot any rabbits which he had seen earlier. Sheila goes berserk with the gun (not two guns) according to what Jeremy says Nevill has told him in an early morning telephone call.

In order to integrate a single killer using two different guns Sheila would need to get another gun. Where did this second gun disappear to and why did Nevill not mention guns (plural) in his call to Jeremy?

[lookout]

Was the silencer already on the rifle when Jeremy left it on the settle before returning home.?

[curiousessex]

Was the silencer already on the rifle when Jeremy left it on the settle before returning home.?

Jeremy says not and without the telescopic sight fitted either.

However, I seem to recall Pargeter said the gun had both the silencer and the telescopic sight fitted the weekend before when he visited WHF.

The silencer / sound moderator normally being used when shooting vermin such as rabbits........ I believe the silencer / sound moderator helps in stopping the vermin from running away so quickly after a first shot is fired.

[-Harters-]

The defence counter argument on this at the original trial was the blood in the silencer was a mixture of Nevill and June's blood as opposed to being exclusively Sheila's blood. As such the defence are accepting the silencer would have been on the gun when both Nevill and June had been shot.

How can the silencer be on the gun when Nevill is shot as a defence explanation for the blood as found in the silencer and then the silencer not be on the gun when Nevill is shot as a possible explanation for the presence of the unexplained burn marks on Nevill ?

That's a good point actually, Nevills blood was found in the silencer, were the US experts aware of this fact?

[Lugg]

Well the defence has not proven the silencer was not fixed to the gun when Sheila was shot. All the defence has done is effectively paid for experts who have written reports / appeared on a broadcast documentary within which it has been stated in the opinion of the expert the images of Sheila's wounds do not, in the opinion of the expert, look like they have been caused by the end of a gun which has a silencer fitted. Nothing else

As such this could have been an argument to be presented at the original trial as opposed to the suggestion the blood in the silencer was a mixture of blood from Nevill and Sheila. The defence could have countered the prosecution's case that the silencer was fitted when Sheila's was shot by stating no silencer was fitted as is demonstrated by the images of the wounds to Sheila's neck. As it was the defence, at the time of the original trial, chose not to take this approach.

I'm just telling you what I thought ngb said. He may be able to explain it better than?

[susan]

Hi curiousessex  I have to tread carefully as I know very little about guns or silencers.  It was discussed some weeks back that a second gun may have been at the farm belonging to a relative name beginning with P can't remember the other letters.  If Ralph phoned Jeremy he would not say your sister has gone berserk with two guns as she would only handle one at a time.  The thing that really confuses me is if Jeremy Bamber carried out these horrendous murders and he was such a devious evil person why did he leave a silencer behind with blood trace on it. He would have cleaned it steve uk said last week that a relative had said Jeremy had tried to clean the silencer with a tampax this would have been far to big to insert into a silencer of such a small diameter.  Could he not have washed it under the tap then hid back in the cupboard.  Why the three burn marks on Ralphs back.  This was a killing for an inheritance so it was said not some kind of sadistic act.  The whole thing just leaves me with so many doubts.  If Sheila had carried out these murders why would she go to the trouble of hiding the silencer at the back of a cupboard why just not leave it thrown around unless she was trying to implicate Jeremy.  Who knows. 

[Lugg]

That's a good point actually, Nevills blood was found in the silencer, were the US experts aware of this fact?

And June's apparently? Were any of June's and Nevill's contact shots do you know?

[-Harters-]

And June's apparently? Were any of June's and Nevill's contact shots do you know?

Yes, both had contact shots according to Vanezis.

[Lugg]

Yes, both had contact shots according to Vanezis.

And obviously the relatives couldn't possibly had known that when they found the silencer?

[-Harters-]

And obviously the relatives couldn't possibly had known that when they found the silencer?

Well, I don't know, I very much doubt it though. 

[lookout]

Jeremy says not and without the telescopic sight fitted either.

However, I seem to recall Pargeter said the gun had both the silencer and the telescopic sight fitted the weekend before when he visited WHF.

The silencer / sound moderator normally being used when shooting vermin such as rabbits........ I believe the silencer / sound moderator helps in stopping the vermin from running away so quickly after a first shot is fired.

The reason I ask is that if it had been left on,,,just the silencer,that is,,,then Sheila had already used the rifle downstairs,,,found that it was too cumbersome with the silencer on,removed it with bloodied hands ( reason why her blood was in the silencer ) then put it in the cupboard,or even left it around and someone else put it away. The sight,I could more or less guarantee,wouldn't have been attached as it needs a philips or specialised screwdriver to remove it and I don't think Sheila would have been up to that.
I don't even think that Sheila would have put the silencer in the cupboard,,as it would have been just left anywhere,possibly found later on the floor somewhere. However, it wasn't used. No wonder it was contaminated the amount of times it had been handled.   

[Lugg]

Well, I don't know, I very much doubt it though. 

Well if it is so, then it is a plus in their favour, that's all I am saying.

[-Harters-]

Well if it is so, then it is a plus in their favour, that's all I am saying.

Well I think the thing which should really do it, is if you were going to plant evidence (which is what I think you are implying), then would you call the police to see the silencer in the gun cupboard, or would you get the police to collect it from Oak Farm? Which is the better option when planting evidence?