Author Topic: Nevill's Premonition?  (Read 30118 times)

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Offline susan

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2012, 03:41:PM »
Hello steve uk you take my word for it a panic button was installed at WHF but due to security reasons for the family I am not able to divulge its whereabouts. 

Offline susan

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2012, 03:44:PM »
steve uk don't forget your earlier quote where Ralph Bamber said I must never turn my back on that young man.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2012, 03:45:PM »
..and yet the murder weapon was left out by Jeremy with only two of his prints and one of Sheila's found. Nevill wanted a panic button installed(though there's still no firm evidence there was one except someone's word on this site),we have Nevill changing the safe key because someone was snooping around(I wonder who that could have been?) and we have Nevill's remarks that "if Jeremy buys that 5 bore shotgun we'll all have to look out".

We have the word of Vidvic that the panic alarm was installed.  He is certainly someone who has accurate information because of his connections with the family.  Vidvic's word is certainly good enough for me.

What is your source for Nevill's alleged remark?  By the way, there is no such thing as a 5 bore shotgun. I have let this pass several times but I think it should be corrected now.

« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 03:50:PM by ngb1066 »

Offline Bridget

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2012, 03:52:PM »
We have the word of Vidvic that the panic alarm was installed.  He is certainly someone who has accurate information because of his connections with the family.  Vidvic's word is certainly good enough for me.

What is your source for Nevill's alleged remark?  By the way, there is no such thing as a 5 bore shotgun. I have let this pass several times but I think it should be corrected now.

And there was me thinking it was some sort of cannon... ;)
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline susan

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2012, 03:54:PM »
Bridget  you are naughty but I like you :) :) :) :) :)

Offline tyler

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2012, 03:55:PM »
..and yet the murder weapon was left out by Jeremy with only two of his prints and one of Sheila's found. Nevill wanted a panic button installed(though there's still no firm evidence there was one except someone's word on this site),we have Nevill changing the safe key because someone was snooping around(I wonder who that could have been?) and we have Nevill's remarks that "if Jeremy buys that 5 bore shotgun we'll all have to look out".
Yes.Jeremy admitted that he left the murder weapon out.He didn't have to admit to this....in fact,if guilty,one would have thought that he wouldn't have mentioned it at all? How do we know that Nevill did not return the rifle to the gun cupboard some time later that evening? And weapons appeared to lay around the farmhouse anyway. Didn't AP say that his weapons were kept in the downstairs loo or shower room? Doesn't quite equate to us being told that Nevill was scrupulous regarding the security of his weapons,does it?

guest7363

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2012, 03:56:PM »
And there was me thinking it was some sort of cannon... ;)
A loose one at that?

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2012, 04:03:PM »
And there was me thinking it was some sort of cannon... ;)

It would be! ::)


Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2012, 04:07:PM »
;)
The weapon was also examined for fingerprints. A print from the appellant's right forefinger was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock and pointing across the gun and Sheila Caffell's right ring fingerprint was found on the right side of the butt, pointing downwards. There were three further finger marks on the rifle, each of insufficient detail for identification purposes.

Which means she had to have touched the thick end of the handle on the gun. But, nothing has been mentioned about this...her finger pointing towards the barrel of the gun.   :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
Yet the Defence's case is that she killed four people with it,including a struggle with Nevill where a ceiling light got broken,necessitating even the Jeremy supporters'  grudging acceptance surely that at that stage Sheila is holding the rifle with two hands.

Here is Jeremy back at the farm,under suffrance after bumming around Australia and New Zealand until the money runs out,then taking employment at Little Chef off the A10 rather than get stuck into farm work. Maybe Jeremy airs his grievances with June at the unfair treatment between himself and Sheila who has been bought a flat in a fashionable area of London and is receiving assistance through June's Osea Road dividend.

So June lets Jeremy have Bourtree Cottage rent free:not what Jeremy had in mind exactly but at least he has a degree of independence and can entertain whomever he likes there without his parents involvement-until that is June catches Julie there one day and calls her a "harlot" to her face. An offer of a flat in London is turned down by Julie who is besotted by Jeremy and sticks by him at this stage.

Jeremy is back working on the farm and is paid well for his age,but with his lavish tastes whilst dining out and other sundry expenditure on the cottage he finds his wage is inadequate,which is why he resorts to earning money on the side by drug dealing. He becomes more and more resentful that he is expected to work for a living and is stuck in an Essex backwater whilst he regards Sheila as living it up in London.

Jeremy's resentment comes out in the odd remark to friends-the James Richards comment said with vehemence on several occasions:"I f***ing hate my parents" and to Doris, the wife of farmworker Len Foalkes to whom he remarks:"I'm not sharing anything with Sheila". If this is not an indication that he has seen the provisions of his mother's will whereby this is exactly what he would be doing then I don't know what is.

Of course Jeremy is still the major beneficiary of Nevill's will,as long as he farms to the satisfaction of the trustees upon Nevill's death,and this is the reason why Jeremy has settled down to farming because it would be the last year of Nevill's life,after which Jeremy would no longer be tied to the farm and he could do what he pleased,inheriting the lion's share of both his parents' wills in the process.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 04:19:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Patti

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2012, 04:16:PM »
Yet the Defence's case is that she killed four people with it,including a struggle with Nevill where a ceiling got broken,necessitating even the Jeremy supporters'  grudging acceptance surely that at that stage Sheila is holding the rifle with two hands.

Here is Jeremy back at the farm,under suffrance after bumming around Australia and New Zealand until the money runs out,then taking employment at Little Chef off the A10 rather than get stuck into farm work. Maybe Jeremy airs his grievances with June at the unfair treatment between himself and Sheila who has been bought a flat in a fashionable area of London and is receiving assistance through June's Osea Road dividend.

So June lets Jeremy have Bourtree Cottage rent free:not what Jeremy had in mind exactly but at least he has a degree of independence and can entertain whomever he likes there without his parents involvement-until that is June catches Julie there one day and calls her a "harlot" to her face. An offer of a flat in London is turned down by Julie who is besotted by Jeremy and sticks by him at this stage.

Jeremy is back working on the farm and is paid well for his age,but with his lavish tastes whilst dining out and other sundry expenditure on the cottage he finds his wage is inadequate,which is why he resorts to earning money on the side by drug dealing. He becomes more and more resentful that he is expected to work for a living and is stuck in an Essex backwater whilst he regards Sheila as living it up in London.

Jeremy's resentment comes out in the odd remark to friends-the James Richards comment said with vehemence on several occasions:"I f***ing hate my parents" and to Doris, the wife of farmworker Len Foalkes to whom he remarks:"I'm not sharing anything with Sheila". If this is not an indication that he has seen the provisions of his mother's will whereby this is exactly what he would be doing then I don't know what is.

Of course Jeremy is still the major beneficiary of Nevill's will,as long as he farms to the satisfaction of the trustees upon Nevill's death,and this is the reason why Jeremy has settled down to farming because it would be the last year of Nevill's life,after which Jeremy would no longer be tied to the farm and he could do what he pleased,inheriting the lion's share of both his parents' wills in the process.

Hi Steve :)

Can we stick to the rifle and finger prints please.  You said that there were two prints from Jeremy, this is not so, there was only one.   The other fingerprint on the butt of the rifle was of Sheila's right ring finger, pointing downwards towards the barrel.  Can you please explain how this could have happened.  :-\ :-\
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 04:22:PM by Patti »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2012, 04:18:PM »
Yes.Jeremy admitted that he left the murder weapon out.He didn't have to admit to this....in fact,if guilty,one would have thought that he wouldn't have mentioned it at all? How do we know that Nevill did not return the rifle to the gun cupboard some time later that evening? And weapons appeared to lay around the farmhouse anyway. Didn't AP say that his weapons were kept in the downstairs loo or shower room? Doesn't quite equate to us being told that Nevill was scrupulous regarding the security of his weapons,does it?

But the weapon was loaded,to make it look as if all Sheila had to do was take it and fire it. Possibly Jeremy didn't realize how many bullets it would take for a rifle destined to kill vermin to kill five people,and anyway he let slip to Julie that Nevill putting up a fight had irritated him so much that he pumped more bullets into him after death as retribution. Had Nevill got a hand to the gun Jeremy would not want the complication of his fingerprints on the murder weapon as any suggestion of a struggle would work against Sheila being the culprit. Jeremy's piece de resistance was scattering the religious messages left around the house by June and some possibly written in Sheila's hand that last evening,as he had done when he scattered papers round the office at Osea Road to make it look as if there had been a burglary from an exterior source instead of the inside jobs both crimes were.

Offline lookout

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2012, 04:19:PM »
Steve,,Jeremy wouldn't have had both murder and financial gain on his mind,,as he would realise you can't have both. Once you get those handcuffs on,any legacy becomes null and void,,to which Jeremy would have known that,so he wasn't going to muck up his own life by setting out to murder his family.

Offline Bridget

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2012, 04:21:PM »
But the weapon was loaded,to make it look as if all Sheila had to do was take it and fire it. Possibly Jeremy didn't realize how many bullets it would take for a rifle destined to kill vermin to kill five people,and anyway he let slip to Julie that Nevill putting up a fight had irritated him so much that he pumped more bullets into him after death as retribution. Had Nevill got a hand to the gun Jeremy would not want the complication of his fingerprints on the murder weapon as any suggestion of a struggle would work against Sheila being the culprit. Jeremy's piece de resistance was scattering the religious messages left around the house by June and some possibly written in Sheila's hand that last evening,as he had done when he scattered papers round the office at Osea Road to make it look as if there had been a burglary from an exterior source instead of the inside jobs both crimes were.

I think the injuries to Ralph and the state of the kitchen did more than enough to suggest a struggle..
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2012, 04:22:PM »
Hi Steve :)

Can we stick to the rifle and finger prints please.  You said that there were two prints from Jeremy, this is not so, there was only one.   The other fingerprint was of Sheila's right ring finger, pointing downwards towards the barrel.  Can you please explain how this could have happened.  :-\ :-\

No one print from Sheila when Jeremy put her finger there after death,two from Jeremy which he failed to wipe off and three possibly from Police who did move the rifle,how many times we do not know.

Offline campion

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Re: Nevill's Premonition?
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2012, 04:22:PM »
 Lovely Susan, POST#30, reading your delicate mind, we now know the Panic Button was in the 'Panic Room'.This place of refuge was the little room above the front door portico. The very room which was said to be called the 'Sewing Room', and Lookout poignantly asked if that was where Jeremy was stitched up.
  What you can tell us, Susan is- why is the Panic Button still insitu, if there is no fearful Magistrate in residence?