Example of how Relatives Names are Blackened.

[tyler]

I don't want to insult anyone Vic.  But I'm not taken in by this whiter than white honesty card being played by you on here, on their part.

It doesn't fit with what is now known and it doesn't fit with the level of controversy in the case.

I accept the point about me being proven right, I can get a bit animated on that score. I do apologise if i have caused offence.  I do see the family as victims but I think the truth is also far more complex.

I dont wish to offend or insult either,but re: Basil Cocks statement,either Basil Cocks was lying or the remaining relatives were. You (Vic) passed off this 'misinformation' as being a lie told by Jeremy.Anything that puts the relatives in a bad light is always put down to Jeremy lying. And yet Patti has posted the evidence..........fingerprinting was carried out in September! What did BC have to gain by lying? Nothing as far as I can see.As Roch pointed out,ALL  evidence points to the finding of a silencer in the under stairs cupboard at whf as having occurred in September.And suspiciously at a time when the relatives were getting nowhere in trying to convince EP that Jeremy was the culprit!

[tyler]

Me again........sorry!

Vic,how can you say that you have seen no evidence on this forum that convinces you that Sheila did not die before 03.30 am? I admit I am no expert,but the crime scene photographs that show how EP had moved her arm in between shots,clearly show and prove that poor Sheila was not in a state of rigor mortis,yet the other victims were?

How can this be,if Sheila died before 03.30am and the photos were not taken until 9 or 10 oclock the next morning?

[lookout]

Jesus. Roch got out of the wrong side of the bed.

Because folk tell the truth doesn't mean that they got out of the wrong side of the bed,now does it.?

[petey]

I don't want to insult anyone Vic.  But I'm not taken in by this whiter than white honesty card being played by you on here, on their part.

It doesn't fit with what is now known and it doesn't fit with the level of controversy in the case.

I accept the point about me being proven right, I can get a bit animated on that score. I do apologise if i have caused offence.  I do see the family as victims but I think the truth is also far more complex.

Let's look at the KNOWN facts of this case.

1) Whether JB is innocent or guilty, ALL of the relatives are VICTIMS in this crime as 3 generations of a family were wiped out in a terrible manner. This means that my starting point with respect to the relatives is always one of sympathy to start with after what they have been through.

2) Just imagine for 1 minute that JB is guilty, or at least the relatives are 100% convinced that he is guilty. How do you think the relatives feel when 27 years after the horrific events they still have to relive the awful memories of that tragic day. Not a day goes by on this forum without somebody posting negatively about the relatives and besmirching them in some way.

3) I think it is pretty much accepted by most people that the police investigation was not great. However, all of us posters on this forum do not know the extent of what information is being witheld. Sure it would be great if everything was disclosed, but there might be completely genuine reasons why some is not, which has no bearing at all on JB's innocence or guilt.

4) To me if there are some photos which are being witheld because they show police officers 'larking around' or being disresepctful, whereas on the one hand this is wrong, it is a secondary issue and I have no desire to see such photos. The ONLY evidence I would like to see which has not been disclosed is any evidence which points towards JBs guilt or innocence. Currently as far as im aware, given that we dont know what has not been disclosed, we don't know if such evidence exists.

5) Finally, numerous posters and posts on this forum have been made about the relatives ' conspiring together to frame JB' and 'knowing he is innocent' and ' doing everything they can to ensure he never gets out, even tho they know he is innocent'.  NOWHERE is there ANY compelling evidence that any of this is true. To me making any such statements is massively disrespectful to the relatives, particularly given that there is no evidence any of it is true.

Moving forwards, of course I want to debate and see people debate whether JB is guilty or innocent and debate which way the evidence points. However, personally I think posters need to be and should be very very careful with what they post.  Of course it is fine to think JB is innocent and debate evidence issues relating to this (I personally still think he is prob innocent). BUT just because posters have a belief JB is innocent, doesn't mean they have to blacken the names of the relatives an accuse them of all kinds of conspiracies, with NO COMPELLING EVIDENCE. Remember they are victims too and have been for 27 years.

It is entirely possible that JB is innocent and the relatives do not know this and currently 100% believe him guilty therefore are obviously extremely negative towards him.

Only if new evidence came out that portrayed the relatives in a new negative light would I look to criticise or attack them on the forum, as currently with no evidence to the contrary they are victims of a horrific crime and are still having their names dragged through the mud 27 years later.

[guest7363]

Hi april I have a pole with a thing on the end but it aint for cleaning windows

Hi susan you and patti are the such lovely people, sorry i could not reply earlier i have just got back from work tother side of crystal peaks what us window cleaners have to put up with?

[Bridget]

Very well said Petey.

[guest154]

Let's look at the KNOWN facts of this case.

1) Whether JB is innocent or guilty, ALL of the relatives are VICTIMS in this crime as 3 generations of a family were wiped out in a terrible manner. This means that my starting point with respect to the relatives is always one of sympathy to start with after what they have been through.

2) Just imagine for 1 minute that JB is guilty, or at least the relatives are 100% convinced that he is guilty. How do you think the relatives feel when 27 years after the horrific events they still have to relive the awful memories of that tragic day. Not a day goes by on this forum without somebody posting negatively about the relatives and besmirching them in some way.

3) I think it is pretty much accepted by most people that the police investigation was not great. However, all of us posters on this forum do not know the extent of what information is being witheld. Sure it would be great if everything was disclosed, but there might be completely genuine reasons why some is not, which has no bearing at all on JB's innocence or guilt.

4) To me if there are some photos which are being witheld because they show police officers 'larking around' or being disresepctful, whereas on the one hand this is wrong, it is a secondary issue and I have no desire to see such photos. The ONLY evidence I would like to see which has not been disclosed is any evidence which points towards JBs guilt or innocence. Currently as far as im aware, given that we dont know what has not been disclosed, we don't know if such evidence exists.

5) Finally, numerous posters and posts on this forum have been made about the relatives ' conspiring together to frame JB' and 'knowing he is innocent' and ' doing everything they can to ensure he never gets out, even tho they know he is innocent'.  NOWHERE is there ANY compelling evidence that any of this is true. To me making any such statements is massively disrespectful to the relatives, particularly given that there is no evidence any of it is true.

Moving forwards, of course I want to debate and see people debate whether JB is guilty or innocent and debate which way the evidence points. However, personally I think posters need to be and should be very very careful with what they post.  Of course it is fine to think JB is innocent and debate evidence issues relating to this (I personally still think he is prob innocent). BUT just because posters have a belief JB is innocent, doesn't mean they have to blacken the names of the relatives an accuse them of all kinds of conspiracies, with NO COMPELLING EVIDENCE. Remember they are victims too and have been for 27 years.

It is entirely possible that JB is innocent and the relatives do not know this and currently 100% believe him guilty therefore are obviously extremely negative towards him.

Only if new evidence came out that portrayed the relatives in a new negative light would I look to criticise or attack them on the forum, as currently with no evidence to the contrary they are victims of a horrific crime and are still having their names dragged through the mud 27 years later.

Great post, Petey. Its refreshing to see that members that believe Bamber guilty and innocent are speaking out against the awful rubbish posted about the relatives on here. I can't even fathom how some posters can think that the best way to spend their day is to attack people they do not know on the internet -  I am all for debate but  there are four members of this forum (One is now banned) that have made posts about the relatives time and time again based on their own gut feeling....it's bizzare, unethical.

[susan]

Hi my friend Ralph have you got ladders or a pole with a thing on the end.  Hope Patti did not put you in A& E whilst you were cleaning her bedroom windows.

[tyler]

Hi Petey, I do hope that your post was not aimed at me?
I have no intention of blackening the names of anyone.For instance,my husband knows Peter Eaton,has worked at the farm, and found him to be a pleasant,friendly,kind and hospitable man.
I am simply questioning the anomalies in the evidence and witness statements........in order to "get to the bottom" of this case..........and that is all!

[Jane]

Hi april I have a pole with a thing on the end but it aint for cleaning windows

Sorry, Susan, replied to patti instead of you. Brain went awol thinking about poles with things on ends

[guest7363]

Hi my friend Ralph have you got ladders or a pole with a thing on the end.  Hope Patti did not put you in A& E whilst you were cleaning her bedroom windows.

Ladders susan and i have booked patti in for every day

[susan]

Hi tyler I am sure petey could not be aiming his post at you I have always found your posts very respectful to other people's feelings and you just try to seek the truth.

[susan]

Ralph 

[Roch]

Jesus. Roch got out of the wrong side of the bed.

No I did not.  My views on the case are vastly different to yours and I regard the silencer evidence as bogus.  I and people on my side, are not shouting the odds while hiding behind a mountain of withheld or destroyed evidence.  You and your side are.   

[Jane]

Let's look at the KNOWN facts of this case.

1) Whether JB is innocent or guilty, ALL of the relatives are VICTIMS in this crime as 3 generations of a family were wiped out in a terrible manner. This means that my starting point with respect to the relatives is always one of sympathy to start with after what they have been through.

2) Just imagine for 1 minute that JB is guilty, or at least the relatives are 100% convinced that he is guilty. How do you think the relatives feel when 27 years after the horrific events they still have to relive the awful memories of that tragic day. Not a day goes by on this forum without somebody posting negatively about the relatives and besmirching them in some way.

3) I think it is pretty much accepted by most people that the police investigation was not great. However, all of us posters on this forum do not know the extent of what information is being witheld. Sure it would be great if everything was disclosed, but there might be completely genuine reasons why some is not, which has no bearing at all on JB's innocence or guilt.

4) To me if there are some photos which are being witheld because they show police officers 'larking around' or being disresepctful, whereas on the one hand this is wrong, it is a secondary issue and I have no desire to see such photos. The ONLY evidence I would like to see which has not been disclosed is any evidence which points towards JBs guilt or innocence. Currently as far as im aware, given that we dont know what has not been disclosed, we don't know if such evidence exists.

5) Finally, numerous posters and posts on this forum have been made about the relatives ' conspiring together to frame JB' and 'knowing he is innocent' and ' doing everything they can to ensure he never gets out, even tho they know he is innocent'.  NOWHERE is there ANY compelling evidence that any of this is true. To me making any such statements is massively disrespectful to the relatives, particularly given that there is no evidence any of it is true.

Moving forwards, of course I want to debate and see people debate whether JB is guilty or innocent and debate which way the evidence points. However, personally I think posters need to be and should be very very careful with what they post.  Of course it is fine to think JB is innocent and debate evidence issues relating to this (I personally still think he is prob innocent). BUT just because posters have a belief JB is innocent, doesn't mean they have to blacken the names of the relatives an accuse them of all kinds of conspiracies, with NO COMPELLING EVIDENCE. Remember they are victims too and have been for 27 years.

It is entirely possible that JB is innocent and the relatives do not know this and currently 100% believe him guilty therefore are obviously extremely negative towards him.

Only if new evidence came out that portrayed the relatives in a new negative light would I look to criticise or attack them on the forum, as currently with no evidence to the contrary they are victims of a horrific crime and are still having their names dragged through the mud 27 years later.

Petey, if it is "entirely possible that JB is innocent" why have the family NEVER looked at that possibility? Why have they never tried to help their nephew prove it? I believe that during an interview it was said of Jeremy that he is only carrying on with his quest to get at them. I wonder, if this is true, why they believe themselves, after 27years, to be Jeremy's prime focus and the only reason he's trying to prove his innocence.

Re information withheld. I feel certain that both sides wonder what is being hidden. If it has no bearing on innocence or guilt what's the problem with revealing it. Should it conclusively prove guilt, so be it........but I imagine it doesn't or it would have been used to do just that.

I fully concur with you that none of us here can possibly imagine what it must be like to have ones family taken in such a violent manner.