Rifle noise

[keepers]

One of the things I still have a problem with is the sound made by the rifle if it has no sound moderator fitted. How loud actually is it. Is it loud enough that a single shot would wake people up? I have many ideas and theories and this is one of the things I'm not totally sure of. It also seems that this is not a totally reliable weapon and most definitely not designed as an assassins rifle asking the question would jeremy have really chosen this weapon if he was intending to carry out the atrocity?

[Jane]

Good morning, Keepers. I have been reliably informed that the sound made by the rifle would have been no louder than a handclap. You raise a very pertinant point about its' suitability as a murder weapon. We hear how Jeremy had been planning this for some time, if that was the case, surely he knew enough about weapons, or enough people who did, to choose something more suitable.

[boheme]

Good morning, Keepers. I have been reliably informed that the sound made by the rifle would have been no louder than a handclap. You raise a very pertinant point about its' suitability as a murder weapon. We hear how Jeremy had been planning this for some time, if that was the case, surely he knew enough about weapons, or enough people who did, to choose something more suitable.

How could it be more suitable ? 5 people dead suggests it was not a bad choice of weapon...

[maggie]

How could it be more suitable ? 5 people dead suggests it was not a bad choice of weapon...

Hi boheme, I would think to plan to kill 5 people, 3 of them adults with a 22 rifle was a huge risk. 
I accept the element of surprise was important but still doesn't fully explain how Nevill allowed it to happen.  There were available guns in that house but none appeared to have been used against the murderer.??

[boheme]

Hi boheme, I would think to plan to kill 5 people, 3 of them adults with a 22 rifle was a huge risk. 
I accept the element of surprise was important but still doesn't fully explain how Nevill allowed it to happen.  There were available guns in that house but none appeared to have been used against the murderer.??

That is a good point..... The children were killed in their bed, Ralph was killed before he had time to act and June was also shot and incapacitated, leaving only Sheila, who was probably to terrified to do anything other than follow the killers instructions to lie down...

[Lugg]

Hi boheme, I would think to plan to kill 5 people, 3 of them adults with a 22 rifle was a huge risk. 
I accept the element of surprise was important but still doesn't fully explain how Nevill allowed it to happen.  There were available guns in that house but none appeared to have been used against the murderer.??

I would have thought that if Jeremy bought a gun intending to kill people and not vermin that he would under pretence have bought another kind of weapon a bit larger that a .22, which from what others have said on the forum  was just a bit more powerful than an air gun? One hell of a chance to take if he was intending to kill 5 people? There would be good chances that he would not have been successful in his plan. Also it is clearly evident that he had never shewn any violence to anyone before that date and from people I know testify that he was a bit of a whimp and found it difficult to kill even a small animal. In fact what these people I know said about him completely contradicts the evidence of Julie Mugford.

[maggie]

I would have thought that if Jeremy bought a gun intending to kill people and not vermin that he would under pretence have bought another kind of weapon a bit larger that a .22, which from what others have said on the forum  was just a bit more powerful than an air gun? One hell of a chance to take if he was intending to kill 5 people? There would be good chances that he would not have been successful in his plan. Also it is clearly evident that he had never shewn any violence to anyone before that date and from people I know testify that he was a bit of a whimp and found it difficult to kill even a small animal. In fact what these people I know said about him completely contradicts the evidence of Julie Mugford.

Exactly Lugg.  The .22 was far more likely to injure than to kill, you had to mean real business to kill with it. 
As you say, no sign of past violence in a person suggests a gentle person, even in prison apart from early on when he says he was really angry, understandably so, if wrongly convicted, Jeremy has never shown any sign of violence. The crime doesn't fit the person imo.

[boheme]

Exactly Lugg.  The .22 was far more likely to injure than to kill, you had to mean real business to kill with it. 
As you say, no sign of past violence in a person suggests a gentle person, even in prison apart from early on when he says he was really angry, understandably so, if wrongly convicted, Jeremy has never shown any sign of violence. The crime doesn't fit the person imo.

But you could apply the same logic to Sheila ?

[maggie]

But you could apply the same logic to Sheila ?

Well, yes you could and it was used about Sheila, except we do know Sheila's medical history and the fact she had been violent, either to herself or others in the past, during a psychotic episode
We do now, know that schizophrenia has a high suicide rate and we also know now that such women suffering from such an illness who have children, tend to take their children with them.
I wouldn't believe Sheila or Jeremy capable of such a violent premeditated crime, therefore of the two of them that night, in the circumstances Sheila was far more likely to have 'lost it' than Jeremy imo.

[Lugg]

But you could apply the same logic to Sheila ?

Yes I would. Firstly she didn't have the luxury to choose her weapon. This indicates a spontaneous crime and spontaneous rage. Which she was known to have done so many times which had been witnessed by several people. She was also know to have had violent moods which often frightened different people. Yes in my opinion the logic fits. Sheila picked up the weapon that was readily available to her and that weapon happened to be the .22 gun on the settle.

[maggie]

Yes I would. Firstly she didn't have the luxury to choose her weapon. This indicates a spontaneous crime and spontaneous rage. Which she was known to have done so many times which had been witnessed by several people. She was also know to have had violent moods which often frightened different people. Yes in my opinion the logic fits. Sheila picked up the weapon that was readily available to her and that weapon happened to be the .22 gun on the settle.

Couldn't agree more.  Have always seen it as a situation when a paranoid schizophrenic woman in a state of psychosis picked up the most available thing to hand in a house full of available weapons and used it.  It was a combination of circumstances not a planned assasination imo. xx

[lookout]

I've said all along that a .22 was no sort of a weapon to be used in a planned assassin,,hence the number of shots that had to be fired from it.
Jeremy would most definitely have got hold of a pistol if he'd have had any designs on murdering his whole family. The man is definitely not guilty.

Also another point that I've made a few times is that granny Speakman who was ill and elderly would have been the target more so because Jeremy was a regular visitor and knew how much the granny was worth and that he'd also have received the biggest slice of her estate.
Jeremy would have realised that the wait for granny to pass wouldn't be too many years away,and that he'd benefit in so many ways with possibly his very own farm.  He would never have thrown that chance away,,not for anything.

[boheme]

Yes I would. Firstly she didn't have the luxury to choose her weapon. This indicates a spontaneous crime and spontaneous rage. Which she was known to have done so many times which had been witnessed by several people. She was also know to have had violent moods which often frightened different people. Yes in my opinion the logic fits. Sheila picked up the weapon that was readily available to her and that weapon happened to be the .22 gun on the settle.

I agree to a certain extent but it is a huge step from ranting and raving to picking up a gun and shooting your own family... Sheila was more at risk of harming herself than others imo..... whereas leaving a gun fully loaded on a settle seems reckless - who would leave a gun lying around with young children in the vicinity ? It is just nuts...

[Lugg]

I agree to a certain extent but it is a huge step from ranting and raving to picking up a gun and shooting your own family... Sheila was more at risk of harming herself than others imo..... whereas leaving a gun fully loaded on a settle seems reckless - who would leave a gun lying around with young children in the vicinity ? It is just nuts...

Although I do agree that Bamber was reckless, especially with children in the house. But the query was that Bamber showed not history or inclination to violence. Sheila had.

[boheme]

Although I do agree that Bamber was reckless, especially with children in the house. But the query was that Bamber showed not history or inclination to violence. Sheila had.

Had Sheila ever physically harmed anyone other than herself ? ( I dont mean frightening anyone such as Freddie..or the child falling from the taxi) I never read anything like that...