"Nails still perfect"

[Steve_uk]

What remark? That it has been suggested that AP's rifle was at the farm that night?This comes from AP's first police statement that he always kept his rifle at the farm,and also the fact that Jeremy listed on paper for the police when they asked what weapons were in the farmhouse.
AP sued the newspaper for libel for suggesting that he may have been involved in the murders didnt he?Well I am suggesting no such thing!

You are being disingenuous I'm afraid but I do clarify that Anthony Pargeter did win a libel action by suggesting that the .22 anschutz rifle was used in the murders.

[Patti]

Hi Patti. Sheila was not master of a gun. She was anyhow allegedly involved in a struggle with Nevill where the ceiling light got broken,leaving aside whether the table was overturned or any sugar was spilled. There were heavy blood deposits on the floor by the telephone in the kitchen,yet nothing in the front of Sheila's nightie,neither any signs of exertion it appears from the pictures.

Hi Steve

You would not have to be a master of a gun to use one.   Experts say that the rifle was light and that a child could have used it and the recoil of the gun was small....It's not rocket science!

You pop bullets into a magazine, put the magazine into the rifle, flick the coil and shoot....I think it is ludicrous to suggest that she could not use the rifle...she was 27 years old.  There is no training involved in my opinion. 

The suggestion of a struggle in the kitchen? well that is debatable.  The stools where placed under the table by the raid team, the raid team were the ones that moved the table and spilled the sugar bowl, which smashed under the table....so all this talk about sugar being on Shelia's feet is pure hearsay and, even if the sugar was on the floor, it would be likely that the sugar would have fell off her feet anyway as she went upstairs.....There was no evidence or forensic report of sugar being anywhere else in the house, other than under the table.....

This might be a harsh thing to say, but NB was rendered incapable of fighting back. How the light shade got smashed I have no idea. I suppose it could have broken by a number of ways. 

[Caroline R]

Hi Steve

You would not have to be a master of a gun to use one.   Experts say that the rifle was light and that a child could have used it and the recoil of the gun was small....It's not rocket science!

You pop bullets into a magazine, put the magazine into the rifle, flick the coil and shoot....I think it is ludicrous to suggest that she could not use the rifle...she was 27 years old.  There is no training involved in my opinion. 

The suggestion of a struggle in the kitchen? well that is debatable.  The stools where placed under the table by the raid team, the raid team were the ones that moved the table and spilled the sugar bowl, which smashed under the table....so all this talk about sugar being on Shelia's feet is pure hearsay and, even if the sugar was on the floor, it would be likely that the sugar would have fell off her feet anyway as she went upstairs.....There was no evidence or forensic report of sugar being anywhere else in the house, other than under the table.....

This might be a harsh thing to say, but NB was rendered incapable of fighting back. How the light shade got smashed I have no idea. I suppose it could have broken by a number of ways. 

Hi Patti,

Something about the sugar, if it got there through the struggle and had it been all over the floor, surely NB's feet would have had traces also?

[Roch]

Hi Patti,

Something about the sugar, if it got there through the struggle and had it been all over the floor, surely NB's feet would have had traces also?

Didn't the raid team knock it over?

[tyler]

It had been established that the raid team had made most,if not all,of the mess in the kitchen.But why,and how? If nobody was alive in that house then why the upturned kitchen table and stools and other general mess? According to the raid team members statements,they crept silently through the rooms singularly whilst being covered by another officer.Operator heard movement and voices over the phone,and yet raid team state that they were whispering and using hand signals.
It just doesnt make any sense.Unless something went off in the kitchen and this is related to "shooting incident in the kitchen"?

[susan]

Hi Caroline  I read the raid team knocked over the sugar and something else as well but can't remember what. 

[tyler]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,618.msg13754.html#msg13754

See "The Struggle in the Kitchen"

Patti........you may be interested in "Points of Exit and Entry" if you havent already read it 

[Caroline R]

Didn't the raid team knock it over?

I think so but my comment was IF there had been sugar all over the floor as  aresult of a struggle in the kitchen wouldn't Neville have had sugar on his feet too?

[mike tesko]

I think so but my comment was IF there had been sugar all over the floor as  aresult of a struggle in the kitchen wouldn't Neville have had sugar on his feet too?

Wouldn't these / those sugar granules also have got onto Jeremy's footwear, and have been found at or on the window where he exited the scene, if he was the killer. Also, why didn't the sugar granules extend into the downstairs office, and gun cupboard, where the silencer was hidden? Why didn't the sugar granules extend out into the main hallway, and up the main stairs, into the main bedroom? You see, its all just a red herring, its a red herring because all the sugar grains are confined to the kitchen, that got distributed in the kitchen during the training exercise...

[Caroline R]

Wouldn't these / those sugar granules also have got onto Jeremy's footwear, and have been found at or on the window where he exited the scene, if he was the killer. Also, why didn't the sugar granules extend into the downstairs office, and gun cupboard, where the silencer was hidden? Why didn't the sugar granules extend out into the main hallway, and up the main stairs, into the main bedroom? You see, its all just a red herring, its a red herring because all the sugar grains are confined to the kitchen, that got distributed in the kitchen during the training exercise...

Exactly, it would be everywhere IF it had been knocked all over the floor in a struggle.

[Lugg]

You are being disingenuous I'm afraid but I do clarify that Anthony Pargeter did win a libel action by suggesting that the .22 anschutz rifle was used in the murders.

Bmber made a list of all the firearms that were kept at the house. This list agreed with the list that the relatives made.

[Lugg]

Didn't the raid team knock it over?

Yes I seem to remember reading that as well?

[Lugg]

Wouldn't these / those sugar granules also have got onto Jeremy's footwear, and have been found at or on the window where he exited the scene, if he was the killer. Also, why didn't the sugar granules extend into the downstairs office, and gun cupboard, where the silencer was hidden? Why didn't the sugar granules extend out into the main hallway, and up the main stairs, into the main bedroom? You see, its all just a red herring, its a red herring because all the sugar grains are confined to the kitchen, that got distributed in the kitchen during the training exercise...

That also is a worthy comment. But I suppose it could be argued that the time lapse between the murders and the testing of Bamber's clothing was too great to establish that fact?