ANN Eaton Notes - CAE/1a (Sheila found on bed with Bible on chest)...

[jon]

If there is nothing to hide then disclose all the information - simple. Revealing all the undisclosed information may help neither side but it would go some way to being more transparent in the name of justice. The resistance to it makes everyone feel there is something to hide - how many national newspapers have been quoting the fact of the undisclosed documents and photos? It is actually pivotal in an individuals decision to want to support an appeal. I have explained the case to a number of people and most of them can't make up their mind either way until you mention the undisclosed documents and photos - it's that important! The general public think it's outrageous when explained to them. It would go some way to settling this matter once and for all. I can not  think of anything that could be in there that needs to held under PII rules to protect the public - can anyone else?

Exactly !! Very well put .

[Alex]

If there is nothing to hide then disclose all the information - simple. Revealing all the undisclosed information may help neither side but it would go some way to being more transparent in the name of justice. The resistance to it makes everyone feel there is something to hide - how many national newspapers have been quoting the fact of the undisclosed documents and photos? It is actually pivotal in an individuals decision to want to support an appeal. I have explained the case to a number of people and most of them can't make up their mind either way until you mention the undisclosed documents and photos - it's that important! The general public think it's outrageous when explained to them. It would go some way to settling this matter once and for all. I can not  think of anything that could be in there that needs to held under PII rules to protect the public - can anyone else?

---------------------------

Could be information about informants, or to do with national Security...

This is something that troubles me as well, that the newspapers don't seem terribly interested in the alleged non-disclosure.  I simply don't believe that there would be a national crisis were this evidence revealed, no matter what had occurred.  So I assume that disclosure of the non-disclosed evidence would provide a way for Jeremy Bamber to be released, even if his innocence were left in doubt, and nothing more than that.

[jon]

If there is nothing to hide then disclose all the information - simple. Revealing all the undisclosed information may help neither side but it would go some way to being more transparent in the name of justice. The resistance to it makes everyone feel there is something to hide - how many national newspapers have been quoting the fact of the undisclosed documents and photos? It is actually pivotal in an individuals decision to want to support an appeal. I have explained the case to a number of people and most of them can't make up their mind either way until you mention the undisclosed documents and photos - it's that important! The general public think it's outrageous when explained to them. It would go some way to settling this matter once and for all. I can not  think of anything that could be in there that needs to held under PII rules to protect the public - can anyone else?

---------------------------

Could be information about informants, or to do with national Security...

No information on informants in the photo's or the audio tapes and note books have been ESDA tested before and not compromised national security .

[Alex]

According to Andrew Hunter's account (five years ago) Bamber's defence team have made repeated requests for specific pieces of evidence to no avail.

"Bamber's defence team has repeatedly asked for access to the following: first, the notebooks and other papers of Inspector Jones, who headed the initial investigation and firmly believed in Bamber's innocence; secondly, the findings of the coroner who inquired into Inspector Jones's sudden death, which have never been made public; thirdly, the audio recordings of all telephone and radio messages from White House farm; fourthly, the audio recordings describing the scene of the crime; fifthly, the video recordings of the scene of the crime; and sixthly, the original radio and telephone messages log and incident report. All are still being withheld from the defence. On every occasion on which the defence team has asked for them, Essex constabulary has refused to provide them. I put it directly to the Minister—and ask her to respond—that that is surely an intolerable state of affairs."

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,368.0.html

[jon]

According to Andrew Hunter's account (five years ago) Bamber's defence team have made repeated requests for specific pieces of evidence to no avail.

"Bamber's defence team has repeatedly asked for access to the following: first, the notebooks and other papers of Inspector Jones, who headed the initial investigation and firmly believed in Bamber's innocence; secondly, the findings of the coroner who inquired into Inspector Jones's sudden death, which have never been made public; thirdly, the audio recordings of all telephone and radio messages from White House farm; fourthly, the audio recordings describing the scene of the crime; fifthly, the video recordings of the scene of the crime; and sixthly, the original radio and telephone messages log and incident report. All are still being withheld from the defence. On every occasion on which the defence team has asked for them, Essex constabulary has refused to provide them. I put it directly to the Minister—and ask her to respond—that that is surely an intolerable state of affairs."

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,368.0.html

+1

[mb1]

According to Andrew Hunter's account (five years ago) Bamber's defence team have made repeated requests for specific pieces of evidence to no avail.

"Bamber's defence team has repeatedly asked for access to the following: first, the notebooks and other papers of Inspector Jones, who headed the initial investigation and firmly believed in Bamber's innocence; secondly, the findings of the coroner who inquired into Inspector Jones's sudden death, which have never been made public; thirdly, audio recordings describing the scene of the crime; fifthly, the video recordings of the scene of the crime; and sixthly, the original radio and telephone messages log and incident report. All are still being withheld from the defence. On every occasion on which the defence team has asked for them, Essex constabulary has refused to provide them. I put it directly to the Minister—and ask her to respond—that that is surely an intolerable state of affairs."

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,368.0.html

Jones's notebook etc - pii. JB's defence have no right to access information pertinent to other cases Cook may have been working on etc.

Jones' inquest - pii. What right have they to invade the Jones' family's privacy over the accidental death of their loved one? Because some JB supporters decided Jones must have been killed?   

Audio and video recordings, radio and telephone messages - have they said 'no you can't have these' or 'they do not exist'?

[Reader]

As far as I know, photocopies of the relevant pages of Jones's notebook haven't been provided to the defence either.

Why would Essex Police be asked for the coroner's findings when the original document wouldn't be the property of Essex Police? Also, PII is not a general purpose excuse for not revealing relevant documents; it could be cited only for documents covered by a PII certificate granted and signed by the Home Secretary.

[mike tesko]

According to Andrew Hunter's account (five years ago) Bamber's defence team have made repeated requests for specific pieces of evidence to no avail.

"Bamber's defence team has repeatedly asked for access to the following: first, the notebooks and other papers of Inspector Jones, who headed the initial investigation and firmly believed in Bamber's innocence; secondly, the findings of the coroner who inquired into Inspector Jones's sudden death, which have never been made public; thirdly, audio recordings describing the scene of the crime; fifthly, the video recordings of the scene of the crime; and sixthly, the original radio and telephone messages log and incident report. All are still being withheld from the defence. On every occasion on which the defence team has asked for them, Essex constabulary has refused to provide them. I put it directly to the Minister—and ask her to respond—that that is surely an intolerable state of affairs."

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,368.0.html

Jones's notebook etc - pii. JB's defence have no right to access information pertinent to other cases Cook may have been working on etc.

Jones' inquest - pii. What right have they to invade the Jones' family's privacy over the accidental death of their loved one? Because some JB supporters decided Jones must have been killed?   

Audio and video recordings, radio and telephone messages - have they said 'no you can't have these' or 'they do not exist'?

... Information came to light in 2003, that DCI Jones was in possession of one of these silencers, which he kept on his desk, that he used as a paperweight, before it was sent to the lab to be checked a few weeks later. This is understood to have been the Bamber silencer, and notes contained in DCI Jomes p/b, are pertenent to the instant case, and therefore, should be disclosed...

[Hartley]

... Information came to light in 2003, that DCI Jones was in possession of one of these silencers, which he kept on his desk, that he used as a paperweight, before it was sent to the lab to be checked a few weeks later.

Where did this 2003 information come from?

[Hartley]

Also, PII is not a general purpose excuse for not revealing relevant documents; it could be cited only for documents covered by a PII certificate granted and signed by the Home Secretary.

All the Home Secretaries and Shadow Home Secretaries since 1986 are in on the police set up though.   

[smiffy]

Ann's notes and this one in particular contain things that may be worthy of more consideration.

For instance  she writes that Nevill phoned Jeremy and initially words it "she has a " before going to to state "Sheila has the gun".

This seems the same as what JB said in interviews with the police in September. He wonders wether he heard the words said by Nevill correctly.
It is in my view safe to say that Stan Jones passed on much info to Ann at some stages in the investigation and it could be that he mentioned bits of JB's september interviews to her and she used this in her fabricated notes purporting them to be made on the 7th august but actually made much later.

Conversely as Ann was present for some of JB's interview at his home on the 7th he may have raised this issue back then either to the police or to Ann.  If so and the card was made up on the 7th then this shows JB was not altering his story later on in september. Remember had only just woken up to answer the phone so would not have been fully alert at the time of the phone call.

An alternative would be if Ann was present at whf and may be sourcing the words used from what she heard Nevill say but that would carry huge implications.

What is odd though is what she muses over in regards to Nevill and his position in the kitchen and questioning that his head in the kitchen scuttle was not right....how would she know it was not right...
it does raise an issue of guilty knowledge in which from having guilty knowledge she is aware the police had tampered with Nevill's body.

[damien]

According to contemporaneous notes written up by Ann Eaton on 7th August 1985, Sheila was found on the bed with the bible on her chest, and the gun beside her...

Now...

Where did Ann Eaton get these details from?

More importantly, if Sheila's body was found on the bed, with the bible on her chest, and the gun on the bed besides her, how did Sheila's body end up on the bedroom floor with the gun on her body, and the bible next to her arm?

How did her body get from one place to the other?

Who could have moved her body, and the gun, and the bible?

Could it have been the police told her and it was the police who moved her?     Doesn't take much to work that out and also that she was shot twice while lying on the bed.  Eat your heart out Sherlock.   

[smiffy]

According to contemporaneous notes written up by Ann Eaton on 7th August 1985, Sheila was found on the bed with the bible on her chest, and the gun beside her...

Now...

Where did Ann Eaton get these details from?

More importantly, if Sheila's body was found on the bed, with the bible on her chest, and the gun on the bed besides her, how did Sheila's body end up on the bedroom floor with the gun on her body, and the bible next to her arm?

How did her body get from one place to the other?

Who could have moved her body, and the gun, and the bible?

Could it have been the police told her and it was the police who moved her?     Doesn't take much to work that out and also that she was shot twice while lying on the bed.  Eat your heart out Sherlock.   

either something like that or something like Ann having guilty knowledge of the crime.
the police later claim never to have said such things to Ann so that leaves Ann in a tricky position.
tsk tsk..shouldnt trust a policeman it seems would be good advice.

[grahameb]

According to contemporaneous notes written up by Ann Eaton on 7th August 1985, Sheila was found on the bed with the bible on her chest, and the gun beside her...

Now...

Where did Ann Eaton get these details from?

More importantly, if Sheila's body was found on the bed, with the bible on her chest, and the gun on the bed besides her, how did Sheila's body end up on the bedroom floor with the gun on her body, and the bible next to her arm?

How did her body get from one place to the other?

Who could have moved her body, and the gun, and the bible?

Could it have been the police told her and it was the police who moved her?     Doesn't take much to work that out and also that she was shot twice while lying on the bed.  Eat your heart out Sherlock.   

Oh good grief. The same old trolls with the same old crap. They read a couple of pages in the forum and suddenly they are experts.

[damien]

According to contemporaneous notes written up by Ann Eaton on 7th August 1985, Sheila was found on the bed with the bible on her chest, and the gun beside her...

Now...

Where did Ann Eaton get these details from?

More importantly, if Sheila's body was found on the bed, with the bible on her chest, and the gun on the bed besides her, how did Sheila's body end up on the bedroom floor with the gun on her body, and the bible next to her arm?

How did her body get from one place to the other?

Who could have moved her body, and the gun, and the bible?

Could it have been the police told her and it was the police who moved her?     Doesn't take much to work that out and also that she was shot twice while lying on the bed.  Eat your heart out Sherlock.   

either something like that or something like Ann having guilty knowledge of the crime.
the police later claim never to have said such things to Ann so that leaves Ann in a tricky position.
tsk tsk..shouldnt trust a policeman it seems would be good advice.

Now you are behaving a tad childish in suggesting that Ann Eaton could have had some knowledge of the crime.  I have no doubt that the police gave Robert and Ann a few details of what had just occurred and which they were later to repeat.  You do realise that Ann will have you over a barrel and it won't be a double barrel when this is all concluded?