Police obtained British Telecom records showing calls to/from white house farm..

[Caroline R]

this may seem like a silly question,but for my own clarification if nothing else...
the items that are held under pii, is there a list of such items/statements etc, that are held under pii?

I've wondered this too.

[tonyb]

I've wondered this too.

There must be.
It's banded about a lot. "Withheld under pii"
If its withheld under pii it must be listed as such, so how do I view the list of items held under pii?...
If there is no list,how do you know it's held under pii? A guess? No evidence supporting a theory so it must be under pii?

[Bridget]

There must be.
It's banded about a lot. "Withheld under pii"
If its withheld under pii it must be listed as such, so how do I view the list of items held under pii?...
If there is no list,how do you know it's held under pii? A guess? No evidence supporting a theory so it must be under pii?

That's about it.

I do recall seeing a solicitor's letter which listed a load of things they were still waiting for, but it was all references rather than the names of actual documents and I was none the wiser as to what or where they were.

[Roch]

That's about it.

I do recall seeing a solicitor's letter which listed a load of things they were still waiting for, but it was all references rather than the names of actual documents and I was none the wiser as to what or where they were.

[Bridget]

That's the thingy, thanks Roch.

[tonyb]

And these are cross referenced against a list specifying the exact nature of the item?
Is that list available?

[Roch]

And these are cross referenced against a list specifying the exact nature of the item?
Is that list available?

I'm unable to answer that. 

[Lugg]

I'm unable to answer that.

But it does nevertheless confirm that there IS  such a list and therefore answers the question and scatters the doubts of some.

[Bridget]

But it does nevertheless confirm that there IS  such a list and therefore answers the question and scatters the doubts of some.

Not for me it doesn't, we still don't know what is on the list.

[Lugg]

Not for me it doesn't, we still don't know what is on the list.

The very fact that they are being kept secret creates doubt for me. If they weren't so important why keep them secret. Do you not have even a slight curiosity as to what is in those documents and wonder why they are so important that they must be kept secret? Especially when a man's freedom is at stake who may well be innocent?

[lookout]

The very fact that they are being kept secret creates doubt for me. If they weren't so important why keep them secret. Do you not have even a slight curiosity as to what is in those documents and wonder why they are so important that they must be kept secret? Especially when a man's freedom is at stake who may well be innocent?

Surely it's not right to withhold anything that could possibly spell freedom for Jeremy. Why is this.?
I could never understand why this practice is allowed,especially given the enormity of this particular case.
When I read of things like this,I feel that we still live in the dark ages.

[tonyb]

The very fact that they are being kept secret creates doubt for me. If they weren't so important why keep them secret. Do you not have even a slight curiosity as to what is in those documents and wonder why they are so important that they must be kept secret? Especially when a man's freedom is at stake who may well be innocent?

I can see how it creates doubt,however there are items that must be kept "secret". I'm sure there are certain photos that should be withheld,never to see the light of day,in this case and many others I'm sure.
As for curiosity, I would imagine at an autopsy,photos are taken. I don't think withholding them under pii is necessarily wrong. In this particular case as an example,what would the production of an autopsy photo prove?
Therefore it would be handyto know what the list relates to.

[Lugg]

I can see how it creates doubt,however there are items that must be kept "secret". I'm sure there are certain photos that should be withheld,never to see the light of day,in this case and many others I'm sure.
As for curiosity, I would imagine at an autopsy,photos are taken. I don't think withholding them under pii is necessarily wrong. In this particular case as an example,what would the production of an autopsy photo prove?
Therefore it would be handyto know what the list relates to.

Yes Tony I also would like to know what documents are witheld. If they could only be revealed to the defence and prosecution. However, I wonder how many are witheld under PII just to cover the a****s of the cops? One cannot but feel cynical about this?

[Bridget]

The very fact that they are being kept secret creates doubt for me. If they weren't so important why keep them secret. Do you not have even a slight curiosity as to what is in those documents and wonder why they are so important that they must be kept secret? Especially when a man's freedom is at stake who may well be innocent?

I understand what you are saying, but I do think that there aare some things that must be kept under wraps and for various reasons. Police procedure is an obvious one, but I think their procedure has changed so much since the 80's that that can no longer be a valid reason in this case. I think it has to be remembered that the CCRC do have access to PII material, and can determine whether or not it is of assistance to an applicant or not, although I also appreciate the scepticism that surrounds the abilities of the CCRC. A good example of what I mean would be the information relating to the death of Taff Jones. I firmly believe that his family should be protected from the sort of exposure that much of the other evidence and supposed evidence in this case receives.

[-Harters-]

Even the photographs (post mortem etc) given to the defence had strict conditions placed upon them to stop them entering the public domain.

It was Crown Privilege rather than PII back in 1986, I suspect that there either isn't a list, or not everything is on the list if one exists.

Certainly the claim that things are withheld under PII is much overused on this forum. It's become a claim in the hope that something will turn up that the defence can use rather than specifically requesting a single known document to further a ground of appeal.

Some thing were simply not disclosed rather than being the subject of PII, which ultimately makes it difficult to request something that you don't know exists.