Court Deceived over claim that Sheila would not have been able to shoot herself

[Reader]

Horseydave, that's not mike tesko's theory, since he elsewhere argues that the sound moderator, if used, was not the one that DB claimed to find, and that Sheila didn't return it to that cupboard, and so didn't need to clean it. There are difficulties with that theory, but not the ones you give. If, on the other hand, no sound moderator was used at all, one might expect more blood to be left on the rifle(s) used. If anyone else used a sound moderator, why return it instead of just taking it off the rifle and leaving it in the bedroom?

I agree that the pictures of Amy mean nothing once one realizes that the trigger could easily be toe-operated, a possibility not mentioned to the jury, and which we can now see makes it unimportant that neither Sheila nor Amy could hand-operate the trigger when the sound moderator was fitted to the rifle.

[mike tesko]

Your accounts above, do not represent anything I have said, or views I hold about this case. These are your views, not mine...

[Reader]

I recall you asserted Nevill's body blocked access to return the sound moderator to the gun cupboard, which implies neither Sheila nor Jeremy returned the sound moderator after Nevill was killed to where DB found it, although horseydave has asserted the gun cupboard was actually a cabinet in the scullery, which would have been accessible to both of them. If that's wrong, please give a brief explanation of your view as to whether the sound moderator found by DB could have been used by Sheila.

[Kaldin]

I asked on here a couple of weeks ago if it's possible that Sheila shot everyone with the silencer on, and then put the gun and the silencer neatly away in the gun cupboard. Perhaps she sat there for a while and then realised what she had done and went and got the gun again without the silencer and shot herself?

Mike didn't like that idea because he claimed that Neville's body was blocking the kitchen door (I'm not convinced of that yet), but if the gun cabinet was in the scullery rather than the office, then she could have done that.

[horseydave]

I do not think i run the site, but since joining it I have been amazed at how facts are being twisted so as to support a wrong statement.

1. Shelia DID not shoot herself. Either JB shot them all, or another unknown person, there are NO other possibilities, and it makes me cross that intelligent sensible people are concocting just rubbish so as to support there crazy ideas.

2. For Kaldin and others lets set out the house and pantry/cubboard/scullery for once and for all - WHF was originally built on a 'T' classic design.  Front rooms, Front bedrooms across the front, and on the end of the "T" piece stands the kitchen, with a chimney stack on its gable end. At some point a extension was added on to that gable end, it had its own door into the yard, its own chimney stack, and its own staircase. It was originally the cowmans cottage. At some later date a door between the main house kitchen (right of the Aga) was knocked through. If you go through that door today you will enter the farm office, to the right of that room is a slim wooden staircase leading to a bathroom and 2 bedrooms.
Upstairs on the landing, a gap has been knocked through to provide access to all rooms, ie the twins room, and shelias. JB's parents room was at the front of the house, top right. Top left was a guest room, JB's room (?), opposite his was the bathroom.
The gun cabinet was in a small room (pantry) that is attached to the kitchen,

3. The theroy of Shelia shooting herself after murdering everyone else does not stand up. In any situation she would of had to disable her father first, so.......... if she did it, she would of had to go downstairs get the gun, affix silencer (screwdriver needed to turn grub screws), return upstairs shoot Mr Bamber, and then having not killed him, find herself in the kitchen where she fights him before finally killing him, then she goes upstairs, shoots her mum, her boys dead in there sleep, and now shelia gets clever - she returns downstairs, unscrews the silencer, buts it into the cabinet, goes back upstairs, props herself up, sticks her toe in around the trigger and shoots herself, then lays down, gets the bible,opens it at page Psalms 51 - ?, lays down and pops herself ??

It did not happen, and if anyone ever asked a jury or a judge to believe that should be found guilty just for there disrespect..

Believe me people, either JB did it, or someone else, there are no other possibilities to any sane minded human being.

I actually liked the guy, and if he stopped writing to me in block capitols and using court references to every point, id write more, he knows my views, but he insists its either him or shelia, and thats why i have my doubts, as the shelia idea does not stand up

[Kaldin]

Thank you for your explanation of the layout horseydave. I'm still not sure what you mean by "pantry".  I think you mean the scullery but people call different rooms different things - including Jeremy.

The back stairs don't seem to be in the office as such - more in the room next to the office. You can see the slope of the stairs above the cupboard.

[curiousessex]

If Sheila used her toe to push the trigger surely some of her toe prints would have been found around the area of the trigger. If I am not mistaken one of her finger prints were found near the trigger and some of Jeremy's prints on the weapon. However, Jeremy's prints would be consistent with the taking of the gun to shoot rabbits and leaving it in the kitchen before leaving. Given this I am surprised there were not more finger prints on the murder weapon.

[Kaldin]

If Sheila used her toe to push the trigger surely some of her toe prints would have been found around the area of the trigger. If I am not mistaken one of her finger prints were found near the trigger and some of Jeremy's prints on the weapon. However, Jeremy's prints would be consistent with the taking of the gun to shoot rabbits and leaving it in the kitchen before leaving. Given this I am surprised there were not more finger prints on the murder weapon.

There should have more on it considering that there's a photo of Sheila with her hand on the gun.

[Reader]

3. The theory of Shelia shooting herself after murdering everyone else does not stand up. In any situation she would of had to disable her father first, so..........

You're forgetting that if Sheila died last, she could have killed all the rest and then had ample time to return the sound moderator, prepare and eat some food (the pathologist found some food in her stomach), and then commit suicide. Without the moderator on the gun, she didn't need to use her toe to operate the trigger. This theory works best if Sheila used more than one gun, but only one sound moderator, which helps explain the sighting by WPc Jeapes of a rifle in the bedroom window prior to the police entering the building. The photographs of Sheila's body indicate she died much later than the other victims, when Jeremy was known to be outside and any other unidentified killer couldn't easily escape.

[mb1]

We still don't know how tall this model is.

My sister's 5'7''. This model looks considerably taller.

As has been said elsewhere, women rarely shoot themselves (let alone anyone else) and I've never heard of one using her big toe!

[Kaldin]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

[andrea]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

true, i think the toe thing is a bit ridiculous. why go through all that trouble of trying to keep your balance with your toe on the trigger while trying to shoot yourself, when you can just remove the silencer and do it that way.

[Kaldin]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

true, i think the toe thing is a bit ridiculous. why go through all that trouble of trying to keep your balance with your toe on the trigger while trying to shoot yourself, when you can just remove the silencer and do it that way.

Yes, the toe thing is a red herring in my opinion.

I don't know what "experiments" they conducted, but the length of arms does differ a lot. Remember the case of the Peter Falconio? His girlfriend, Joanna Lees, said her arms were tied behind her back but that she managed to get them to the front, and she demonstrated that in court. Not everyone could do that because their arms aren't long enough.

[Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

true, i think the toe thing is a bit ridiculous. why go through all that trouble of trying to keep your balance with your toe on the trigger while trying to shoot yourself, when you can just remove the silencer and do it that way.

I think the whole debate about whether Sheila could have shot herself with a gun with silencer attached might have stemmed from the photograph which shows a gun propped against the bedroom window. If you look closely at this gun it appears to have a silencer attached.
Although I hold my hands up and admit I am by no means an expert on guns!

[Kaldin]

It's not really relevant how tall a model is anyway. What's relevant is the length of Sheila's arms.

true, i think the toe thing is a bit ridiculous. why go through all that trouble of trying to keep your balance with your toe on the trigger while trying to shoot yourself, when you can just remove the silencer and do it that way.

I think the whole debate about whether Sheila could have shot herself with a gun with silencer attached might have stemmed from the photograph which shows a gun propped against the bedroom window. If you look closely at this gun it appears to have a silencer attached.
Although I hold my hands up and admit I am by no means an expert on guns!

Yes, I thought that too, but the photo isn't clear enough to be able to tell.

I do wonder why the relatives were poking around the gun cupboard in the first place. It's almost as if they were looking for a silencer.