Julie Mugford's NOW contract and the new evidence ?

[Patti]

Can we please not post personal information regarding others without prior permission to do so. Thank you. 

[lookout]

egap there was no storm from my side just an apology to you for offebding you. I really dont know why you are bringing this up once more.

Maggie,it's okay,don't worry.I won't be answering that post,as I sensed something " not nice " in it.
That's not my style as you know,and I'm not easily hoodwinked into anything I'm wary of.x

[-Harters-]

Can we please not post personal information regarding others without prior permission to do so. Thank you. 

Has my inside leg measurement been posted again?  Sheesh, what is wrong with people. 

[lookout]

Morning Lookout, how's you today? Did you see the programme about the Peter Sutcliffe last night? The doctors are convinced he is schizophrenic. What they said was that he does not think he has done anything wrong, he was told to do it by god, therefore under this delusion, in his eyes he has done the world a favour by killing all those women....

Apparently he write to loads of women too.....One woman had her heart broken, because they had a pen relationship and she moved home to near Broadmore, then applied for visiting rights...When she got the prison, she was asked questions by the prison staff....one of them " Do you mind if Peter writes to other women" she replied yes I do......Then she was refused her visit....and found out that he has penned love affairs all over the place....The same woman is now campaigning to have this penned behaviour stopped....She was willing to marry him....But, she was in a vulnerable and depressed state when she wrote to him herself.....and was contemplating being a nun??? 

Patti,no,I didn't watch that programme,simply because the man is visibly insane,contrary what others think. I'm only interested in those prisoners who have suffered an injustice,not those who are thankfully locked up to keep the streets safe. I have no interest at all in real criminals,and the women who go for such men as they,must also be borderline insane.

[Patti]

Patti,no,I didn't watch that programme,simply because the man is visibly insane,contrary what others think. I'm only interested in those prisoners who have suffered an injustice,not those who are thankfully locked up to keep the streets safe. I have no interest at all in real criminals,and the women who go for such men as they,must also be borderline insane.

Lookout, I have seen what he looks like now and he is badly disfigured in his face.  I suppose no one cares about that.

what I was getting at though in my post was the doctors diagnosis of schizophrenia as opposed to others saying he is just pure evil and not got any mental illness at all and that he plotted his mental illness in order to get into Broadmoor based on the likelihood that he would get better and be released.......... X

[susan]

Hi Patti

Have no knowledge on schizophrenia but I think the voices from God in Peter Sutcliffe's head was an idea he made up as you said to get to Broadmoor.  In my opinion the crimes he committed were purely for sexual gratification and control and in a perverted sense as nearly all his victims were prostitutes he was crafty and cunning to go so long without being detected but the police were not the brightest  bulbs in the box.  Peter Tobin another evil person it is strange but his ex wife just lives up the road from me and does B/B and tells everyone who she is that is the last thing I would do.  I think people can have episodes but not occuring like Peter Sutcliffe's were.

[Jane]

Susan/Patti, hi.

We know that psycopathy isn't an illness for which there is a cure. It's a mind set which has no empathy and no moral compass, its creed could be that of the great satanist, Alestair Crowley, "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law". I believe it feasible that he would see life in Broadmoor as being an easier ride and a step closer to eventual release, but Susan, even psychopaths have sexual urges/fantasies and maybe his involved murder, which would mean that he couldn't have sex with the same woman twice and clearly he couldn't kill his wife which probably meant that sex with her was less than fulfilling for him, so I guess for him it made perfect sense to have sex with prostitutes as they probably wouldn't be missed. I do have my doubts about schizophrenia, but a psychopath could give a convincing performance of having it, even better if he's able to live with them.

[susan]

Hi april/Patti  as I said earlier I have always felt Peter Sutcliffe's crimes were sexually motivated in a perverted sort of way . I thought he did not carry out the sexual act as such but obtained gratification in another way.  Not wanting to get graphic.  I think Peter Sutcliffe was a man with a low self esteem and felt inadequate around women and that is why he mostly killed prostitutes as he felt they were worthless anything.  Don't go with the voices in his head telling him to commit these crimes.  He is probably a psychopath certainly not a normal man but you are more qualified to talk about this april than I am.  He appeared so normal and I am sure his wife thought he was normal but I fail to see how he could have had a normal sexual relationship with his wife.  But who knows.

[Jane]

Hi april/Patti  as I said earlier I have always felt Peter Sutcliffe's crimes were sexually motivated in a perverted sort of way . I thought he did not carry out the sexual act as such but obtained gratification in another way.  Not wanting to get graphic.  I think Peter Sutcliffe was a man with a low self esteem and felt inadequate around women and that is why he mostly killed prostitutes as he felt they were worthless anything.  Don't go with the voices in his head telling him to commit these crimes.  He is probably a psychopath certainly not a normal man but you are more qualified to talk about this april than I am.  He appeared so normal and I am sure his wife thought he was normal but I fail to see how he could have had a normal sexual relationship with his wife.  But who knows.

Susan, the first question I would ask is what is normal!!!!! but, hey, I get your drift.

Regarding PS's wife, my suspicion is that their sex life was "other". I think for both it was likely to have been less than satisfactory. She may have thought it was "normal" but I suspect she may not have had any yardstick against which to judge it if she had never moved outside of family and cultural views of sex.

I guess what you're saying is that he didn't indulge in penetrative sex with his victims. His fantasy may not have involved it, but I suspect his ultimate goal was the brain blasting orgasm which was his reward for ridding the world of worthless women.

[susan]

Hi april  I agree Sonia Sutcliffe may not have known the difference between good and bad sex.  I think Peter Sutcliffe was incapable of having "normal" sex have to be careful here or my post will be deleted after he murdered these poor innocent females he was able to carry out a sexual act over their dead bodies so the act of murdering in such a brutal way gave him the sexual urge he craved and would suggest to me he was a very inadequate man.  I remember when I was in my late twenties and had my own cottage a perv use to come to my window at night holding up ladies panties saying what he wanted to do.  The police said he would not have touched me had I gone out and challenged him.  He was getting his sexual gratification from his actions not the act.  I was not taking any chances. I moved house.

[Nickos]

Hi april  I agree Sonia Sutcliffe may not have known the difference between good and bad sex.  I think Peter Sutcliffe was incapable of having "normal" sex have to be careful here or my post will be deleted after he murdered these poor innocent females he was able to carry out a sexual act over their dead bodies so the act of murdering in such a brutal way gave him the sexual urge he craved and would suggest to me he was a very inadequate man.  I remember when I was in my late twenties and had my own cottage a perv use to come to my window at night holding up ladies panties saying what he wanted to do.  The police said he would not have touched me had I gone out and challenged him.  He was getting his sexual gratification from his actions not the act.  I was not taking any chances. I moved house.

Where do you live now? 

[ngb1066]

I'm not so sure, mainly from NGB's earlier post where he stated that the prosecution were not aware of the contract.

I do understand the concerns you state though.
[/quote  Yes it is true as you say that ngb did state this .
  Does ngb just mean that there is not evidence to back this up though or that he actually believes the prosecution to have been unaware ?
  Could I be so bold as to ask your position on this ngb ? Do you think the prosecution were aware before trial of the existence of any agreement/contract ?

I believe that the CPS and prosecution were not aware of the NoW deal.  I am not sure whether certain police officers knew.  I consider that to be quite likely, but we are unlikely to find out.

[gringo]

Lookout, I have seen what he looks like now and he is badly disfigured in his face.  I suppose no one cares about that.

what I was getting at though in my post was the doctors diagnosis of schizophrenia as opposed to others saying he is just pure evil and not got any mental illness at all and that he plotted his mental illness in order to get into Broadmoor based on the likelihood that he would get better and be released.......... X

I'm sure that ngb will correct me if I am wrong on this but insanity is a defence to murder and Sutcliffe was declared sane for his trial and was therefore found guilty .
  Had it been the case that he was insane then he would have been not guilty . He would then have been most likely sectioned and would be eligible for release as and when the relevant medical experts deem him no longer a danger .
  As it stands even if doctors declared Sutcliffe sane , he would then get put back in prison to serve the remaider of his life sentence . I think the courts are loathe to accept insanity for this reason . Sutcliffe was declared insane once in prison but is still considered to have been sane at the time of the murders .

[susan]

Hi Nickos  I found out later the perv with the panties was my window cleaner so he knew me and the house so well.  I had better warn Patti has she loves her window cleaner.  He use to put dirty notes through my letter box I have never been as scared in my life and of course the police could do nothing but tell me to chase him with a sweeping brush

[gringo]

I believe that the CPS and prosecution were not aware of the NoW deal.  I am not sure whether certain police officers knew.  I consider that to be quite likely, but we are unlikely to find out.

Thanks ngb . It seems far fetched that the details of this were only known by JM . I cannot believe that she could successfully hide this from the court without some help .