Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal  (Read 47317 times)

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Lugg

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #270 on: October 01, 2012, 07:11:PM »
He knew about the terms of Nevill's will alright,and he knew enough to want a new car when he had smashed his old one up,he knew enough of Sheila to tell Doris Foakes "I'm not sharing any of my money with my sister" and he knew enough of June to screw her letter to be opened after her death up into his glove compartment saying to Julie "I'm glad she's dead".

We just don't know how wrapped up in Julie he was. Was he on the rebound from Suzette and was he grief-stricken at her three miscarriages? Was the thought "let's make babies" on his mind every time he took Julie to bed,was this an infantile remark symptomatic of the workings of his mind or was this a side-sweep at a possible infertile Nevill..

My opinion in retrospect is that he used Julie-he used her for sex at Goldsmiths,he used her to access the cannabis market making up some of the income he spent living beyond his means,,he tied her into the murders with the telephone calls and used her as a sounding board,he used her for emotional reassurance as an ersatz mother and like the car he had wrecked when he found no further use for her he dumped her and bought a new model in the form of Anji Greaves.
Well for someone planning on committing the perfect murder he certainly had a very big mouth. Telling everybody in sight that he was going to kill his family. Makes you wonder if he really did want to be sent to prison. What seems to me to be the right judgment on all these so called witnesses is that the prosecution had gone out and found everyone who disliked JB. That ti my mind is the logical way to deal with this mountain of all too plausible hearsay. For that is what is plainly is. Hearsay.

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #271 on: October 01, 2012, 07:14:PM »
No lookout he was an adoptee whose parents provided the love and care of sorts but where he never felt particularly comfortable. True many young people take a year out and travel the world but upon return Jeremy preferred working at a Little Chef on the A12 rather than the career which had been mapped out for him almost from birth.

The psychiatric testing he took in prison suggested that he was in the lowest 10% of ability on one of the tests,yet he knew on which side his bread was buttered and as he told Julie when she asked why he didn't just leave he replied: "I have too much to lose". It was during this time that Jeremy had time to think about planning the murders,whilst outwardly giving the appearance of someone who had settled down to the farming lifestyle,one must never forget that he was ploughing the fields with an ulterior motive,a corn carter with malice aforethought.


Steve,of course he was comfortable with his parents.June thought the world of him,,,most likely because he was less trouble than his sister,and the fact that he was an adoptee doesn't and shouldn't come into it as I feel very strongly in them being singled out as some sort of " has-beens ". Some adoptees are by far better than birth children,who,I might add,go through, and say exactly the same things as Jeremy was supposed to have said.

The murders weren't planned by anyone,,least of all by Jeremy. It was Sheila who had all the issues.
Anyway,you've just admitted that Jeremy only came out at 10%,,which certainly isn't enough to plan and carry out 5 murders,is it.? You need brains,and back in 1985,I'm afraid Jeremy lacked.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #272 on: October 01, 2012, 07:15:PM »
True april and also that old farmhouse would have thick stone walls. Would doubt if the twins in their bedroom would hear Sheila screaming downstairs.
We know 'Freddie' feared for his life when Sheila was psychotic in Maida Vale flat.
We dont know if Sheila had threatened anyone with anything leading up to that August night.

We do know;she hadn't.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #273 on: October 01, 2012, 07:20:PM »
I doubt if anyone had screamed or shouted that the boys would have been awoken by the noise.  This slaughter was not done in silence but yet the children remained asleep and thankfully were asleep when they were killed.

Who is to say that Sheila never once lifted a knife or anything else that could have been used as a weapon, or threatened any other person?  SC was ill, anything is possible IMO.

If SC was brandishing the gun, and unlike other occassions, he was unable to calm her down, it makes sense that he would call Jeremy, as Jeremy was one of the few who really knew what Sheila was like when she had an episode.

No Sheila and Jeremy kept their distance from each other and didn't have much in common. They went to separate schools for most of their lives and Sheila had lived in London from the age of sixteen. Jeremy told the Police that morning "I don't like her and she doesn't like me.." Under these circumstances I find it hard to believe that Jeremy was the one Nevill turned to in a crisis.

Offline Roch

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #274 on: October 01, 2012, 07:20:PM »
You see I don't accept the Defence's telephone call in the first place,so it's again building one hypothesis on another,if you can put yourself in the shoes of the Prosecution for one tiny moment..

I can and do regularly place my self in the shoes of the prosecution, hence my percentage stance which is roughly born out in my posts

There's just no way that Sheila was the type who would go berserk or go crazy or whatever words you want to describe it with a gun. It was Jeremy who loaded the gun with a magazine don't you see,because he knew that people would say Sheila could never have performed that action,but Jeremy could not predict exactly how much ammunition he would need to kill five people in a rifle whose purpose was to kill vermin.

It's nonsense to suggest that Sheila would not go mad with a light weight easy to use gun.  You, Steve_UK cannot know what implements Sheila would or would not go mad with.  Then there's the possibility that this is not a one gun crime but multiple weapon crime.  That hasn't yet been cleared up enough to my satisfaction.  If more than one weapon was used in the incident then you can kiss goodbye to me wearing any prosecution shoes, even if they happen to be Jimmy Choos.

I don't accept the suggestion that somehow Nevill manages to calm Sheila down,then she kicks off again. It's quite clear from the way the bullet cases are scattered that Nevill is shot on the landing yet manages to make his way down to the kitchen, whoever you think the identity of his assailant is,and in these circumstances everyone's natural thoughts are to telephone the Police. Why wake Jeremy up anyway in the middle of the night when he might after all not even pick up the receiver?

You might not accept the suggestion but on what grounds?  You have absolutley no idea what took place during the evening, where jeremy Bamber does not portray Sheila as berserk but distant.  Very inconvenient for the likes of you, just as his later blaming of the raid team is.  Neither fit whatsoever with Jeremy portraying Sheila as berserk or a nutter.  Well actually, the distant portrayal might very well be a genuine and apt description of a prelude to unforeseen mayhem.  Why wake Jeremy up in the middle of the night?  Have you ever been in such a dire, desperate situation in the small hours.  How do you know exactly who you would turn to or in what order.  Everyone's natural instincts?  Next time you are facing the prospect of a fight to the death with your daughter, please be kind enough to simultaneously record your 'natural instincts' for prosperity.

It's not just at the White House Farm end that the Jeremy supporters' scenario breaks down. We have Jeremy calmly flicking through the Yellow Pages for ten minutes,as well as telephoning Julie(we won't go into the exact timing of that now as that represents another headache) as we are supposed to believe his words to the Police: "what's taking you so much time..my father sounded terrified when he called" yet Jeremy retracts this at trial which along with other inconsistencies in his evidence make his version of events incredible and the jury's verdict of beyond reasonable doubt a correct one.

Jeremy flicking through the yellow pages actually fits in with David Boutflour's original assessment and the assessment of a non material witness, namely that Jeremy "wouldn't have the gumption" to do this.  He's not the sharpest tool in the box when awoke in the middle of the night and doesn't phone 999.  Perhaps he had never envisaged receiving such a strange call from his father, nor envisaged the multiple murder of his family occurring while he slept.  Perhaps his father had never phoned him before in this manner.  perhaps he was momentarily thrown off-kilter.  Perhaps he was still stoned.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 07:24:PM by Roch »

Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #275 on: October 01, 2012, 07:21:PM »
He knew about the terms of Nevill's will alright,and he knew enough to want a new car when he had smashed his old one up,he knew enough of Sheila to tell Doris Foakes "I'm not sharing any of my money with my sister" and he knew enough of June to screw her letter to be opened after her death up into his glove compartment saying to Julie "I'm glad she's dead".

We just don't know how wrapped up in Julie he was. Was he on the rebound from Suzette and was he grief-stricken at her three miscarriages? Was the thought "let's make babies" on his mind every time he took Julie to bed,was this an infantile remark symptomatic of the workings of his mind or was this a side-sweep at a possible infertile Nevill..

My opinion in retrospect is that he used Julie-he used her for sex at Goldsmiths,he used her to access the cannabis market making up some of the income he spent living beyond his means,,he tied her into the murders with the telephone calls and used her as a sounding board,he used her for emotional reassurance as an ersatz mother and like the car he had wrecked when he found no further use for her he dumped her and bought a new model in the form of Anji Greaves.

It's easy enough to claim on one's insurance after a car accident, and he only wanted a kit car, not a Bentley. My ex told his family doctor that he had an allergy to his brother!! I wouldn't rule out that emotionally, Jeremy longed for a blood relative which a child would have been.......but it hardly fits with your claim that he's a psychopath. As for him using Julie. She certainly doesn't fit my picture of an innocent virgin. Are you suggesting he forced her. It may have been on of their favourite games, who knows? I'm inclined to think that as far as cannibis went, it was Julie who showed Jeremy the ropes. She certainly didn't seem to need any assistance in passing dud cheques, so perhaps it was she who suggested that they "tested" the security at the caravan site.

Offline maggie

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #276 on: October 01, 2012, 07:21:PM »
We do know;she hadn't.
How do we know as the close family who would have experienced it are dead as we know.

Caroline R

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #277 on: October 01, 2012, 07:24:PM »
No Sheila and Jeremy kept their distance from each other and didn't have much in common. They went to separate schools for most of their lives and Sheila had lived in London from the age of sixteen. Jeremy told the Police that morning "I don't like her and she doesn't like me.." Under these circumstances I find it hard to believe that Jeremy was the one Nevill turned to in a crisis.

You find it hard to believe that he would turn to his son? I give up! It's like talking to a wall!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #278 on: October 01, 2012, 07:24:PM »
Well for someone planning on committing the perfect murder he certainly had a very big mouth. Telling everybody in sight that he was going to kill his family. Makes you wonder if he really did want to be sent to prison. What seems to me to be the right judgment on all these so called witnesses is that the prosecution had gone out and found everyone who disliked JB. That ti my mind is the logical way to deal with this mountain of all too plausible hearsay. For that is what is plainly is. Hearsay.

He's never actually confessed,so I reject that he's "telling everybody in sight that he was going to kill his family". In my opinion however it was not sheer coincidence that the only times the whole family were under the one roof,namely Christmas 1984 and August 1985 Jeremy can hardly contain himself,as his need for excitement either from natural events or substance abuse takes precedence over his exercising of caution.

Offline susan

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #279 on: October 01, 2012, 07:26:PM »
Maggie  all we have on the TV just Now is REPEATS :)

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #280 on: October 01, 2012, 07:27:PM »

Steve,of course he was comfortable with his parents.June thought the world of him,,,most likely because he was less trouble than his sister,and the fact that he was an adoptee doesn't and shouldn't come into it as I feel very strongly in them being singled out as some sort of " has-beens ". Some adoptees are by far better than birth children,who,I might add,go through, and say exactly the same things as Jeremy was supposed to have said.

The murders weren't planned by anyone,,least of all by Jeremy. It was Sheila who had all the issues.
Anyway,you've just admitted that Jeremy only came out at 10%,,which certainly isn't enough to plan and carry out 5 murders,is it.? You need brains,and back in 1985,I'm afraid Jeremy lacked.

Well I'd give more credence to your judgement of a person's intellectual capacities had you not described Julie as "not having much between the ears",but the point of the murders is that they had been planned over a period of at least a year,so Jeremy however slow he was had time to get the details right.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #281 on: October 01, 2012, 07:32:PM »
I can and do regularly place my self in the shoes of the prosecution, hence my percentage stance which is roughly born out in my posts

It's nonsense to suggest that Sheila would not go mad with a light weight easy to use gun.  You, Steve_UK cannot know what implements Sheila would or would not go mad with.  Then there's the possibility that this is not a one gun crime but multiple weapon crime.  That hasn't yet been cleared up enough to my satisfaction.  If more than one weapon was used in the incident then you can kiss goodbye to me wearing any prosecution shoes, even if they happen to be Jimmy Choos.

You might not accept the suggestion but on what grounds?  You have absolutley no idea what took place during the evening, where jeremy Bamber does not portray Sheila as berserk but distant.  Very inconvenient for the likes of you, just as his later blaming of the raid team is.  Neither fit whatsoever with Jeremy portraying Sheila as berserk or a nutter.  Well actually, the distant portrayal might very well be a genuine and apt description of a prelude to unforeseen mayhem.  Why wake Jeremy up in the middle of the night?  Have you ever been in such a dire, desperate situation in the small hours.  How do you know exactly who you would turn to or in what order.  Everyone's natural instincts?  Next time you are facing the prospect of a fight to the death with your daughter, please be kind enough to simultaneously record your 'natural instincts' for prosperity.

Jeremy flicking through the yellow pages actually fits in with David Boutflour's original assessment and the assessment of a non material witness, namely that Jeremy "wouldn't have the gumption" to do this.  He's not the sharpest tool in the box when awoke in the middle of the night and doesn't phone 999.  Perhaps he had never envisaged receiving such a strange call from his father, nor envisaged the multiple murder of his family occurring while he slept.  Perhaps his father had never phoned him before in this manner.  perhaps he was momentarily thrown off-kilter.  Perhaps he was still stoned.

He was stoned at the time of the murders:Ann Eaton noted his dilated pupils on the morning of the murders at Goldhanger. The gun may well have been lightweight and easy to use-I'm sure that's the manufacturers want to portray in their literature,but this particular gun was stiff and may well have jammed during the murders. You also disregard the reloading requirement,with of course all Sheila's nails intact.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 07:49:PM by Roch »

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #282 on: October 01, 2012, 07:32:PM »
Well I'd give more credence to your judgement of a person's intellectual capacities had you not described Julie as "not having much between the ears",but the point of the murders is that they had been planned over a period of at least a year,so Jeremy however slow he was had time to get the details right.

Is that what Julie told you,that the murders had been planned " over a period of a year ".?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #283 on: October 01, 2012, 07:35:PM »
You find it hard to believe that he would turn to his son? I give up! It's like talking to a wall!

Caroline have you read the evidence:"I must never turn my back on that young man..the shooting season is coming up..accidents do happen..if he buys (that gun) we'll all have to be on our guard..

I'm afraid the Defence has been wantonly misled by an evil charmer,who sometimes forgets his lines.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2012, 07:38:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline maggie

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Re: Jeremy Bamber's story - NOTW deal
« Reply #284 on: October 01, 2012, 07:36:PM »
Well I'd give more credence to your judgement of a person's intellectual capacities had you not described Julie as "not having much between the ears",but the point of the murders is that they had been planned over a period of at least a year,so Jeremy however slow he was had time to get the details right.
.Now you are making out Jeremy has a learning difficulty!! These psychiatric tests breakdown different parts of understanding. He may have some other really high percentages in other area. I have never seen this report where did you read it.