THE FEAST OF THE TRANSFIGURATION celebrated on 6th August!

[susan]

Hi mags

I can go with your theory but the 5 3,s written down to me means 5 people and what ever was going on in poor Sheila's mind was focused on the religious issues i.e. as Caroline says 3 a.m. and lets not forget the 3 marks on Ralph's back this must be connected.

[maggie]

As we are all aware,,,there are mass killings/murders committed in the name of religion.

Yes lookout it's called religion but it's really just power and control and has nothing to do with spirituality and love.

[Caroline R]

Caroline, I have a bit of a theory, Sheila had been very withdrawn which often happens before a psychotic episode.  If for whatever reason she decided to commit suicide, she would not leave her children behind but would take them with her.  I don't see this as murder but rather accept that Sheila would see it as keeping them safe. However, Ralph or June could possibly have intervened at some point and that is how they were caught up in what was initially a suicide which turned into a domestic.  I would have thought suicide was inevitable for a paranoid schizophrenic surrounded by guns and ammunition but of course, none of the family realised this til it was too late..... Now I agree with you concerning the transfiguration it makes total sense.

Hi caroline I think you are a very perceptive clever young lady and a great asset to this forum.  Just kidding about the ignore I can always answer my own posts   I really think you are onto something with the latest regarding all the 3,s can't wait to explore it further.

Thanks Maggie/Susan  - I agree that the intention was to 'save the boys' and herself - I think the violence stemmed from NB's inevitable intervention - She had a mission and sadly because of her illness, she would not be swayed.

[maggie]

Hi mags

I can go with your theory but the 5 3,s written down to me means 5 people and what ever was going on in poor Sheila's mind was focused on the religious issues i.e. as Caroline says 3 a.m. and lets not forget the 3 marks on Ralph's back this must be connected.

I know Susie, I know the 3 probably stands for Father, Son and Holy Ghost, the 3 in 1.  3 has always been significant way before the Christian religion and although we know Sheila dabbled in white witchery etc her upbringing was definitely fire and brimstone christianity.  So my theory wasn't fixed but more an idea as to what may have occcured because I don't believe any of the killings were done with premeditated hate.  I think the bible pages being open at the Transformation fills in the missing links and that Sheila may very well have been tryng to 'save' her boys in the name of love.  There's so much written about Sheila 'hating' June but I wuld imagine she would be far more likely to crave her approval than hate her. 

[lookout]

Hi caroline I think you are a very perceptive clever young lady and a great asset to this forum.  Just kidding about the ignore I can always answer my own posts   I really think you are onto something with the latest regarding all the 3,s can't wait to explore it further.

Hi Susan,,,it's only when one has had " experience " of a person like Sheila,,,either by living with them or nursing them,that you realise that they are capable of injuring,and or killing,regardless of whether they're male or female,,,and this is what confused the police and the jury at the trial of Jeremy.
Much was said about Sheilas' slightly-built frame,etc,but size is no barrier when it comes to a violent outburst of someone suffering from Schizophrenia,,and therefore they looked to the murders as having been committed by a man,and the only one left in the equation was Jeremy.
Very little thought went into the devastating effects that missing vital medication which counteracted the side-effects of another,,,was taken into consideration. All have adverse effects if not taken correctly,as one shouldn't be taken without the other.
Perhaps they should have all read-up about the effects of Stelazine,Anafranil and Haloperidol if not taken together as prescribed,,,as one would have had the desired calminative effect to which Sheila hadn't taken.
Maybe Sheila hadn't wanted to stay calm that night,otherwise what happened,mightn't have done.

It's worth going into what Caroline has written though,,as it would seem, plays a large part in what Sheila did that night,,after much thought on her part,,another reason for skipping her medication.
Caroline,,you've cracked it,girl. That was Sheilas' motive.   

[susan]

Hi lookout yes I agree with your theory a girl was sentenced this week to 22 years for stabbing a young girl in the park for no reason whatsoever.  She had aa episode and was held not responsible for her actions you may have heard it on the news I only half listen to news so missed the story but it did say the person responsible had been brought up without love as her Mother died when she was 15 and she was passed from pillar to post and nobody cared for her.  The killing was carried out without any provocation and just happened.

[maggie]

Lookout, you see the attitude still on this forum and the dark side with people talking about Sheila being a bit unwell or 'wouldn't hurt a fly'...all that stuff is dragged out time and time again.  It goes with Jeremy Bamber is a psychopath eventhough he's been tested in everyway and forever and shows no signs.  I'm sure Sheila was a lovely little girl who developed severe problems during her teenage years which became full blown paranoid schizophrenia in her 20s.  That alone is a tragedy, but even in the 21st century so many people see mental illness as some sort of disgrace as if the person involved is in someway to blame.  The whole event, Sheila's illness and the deaths are part of the tragedy as is Jeremy still sitting in prison, his is a living death.

[lookout]

Hi lookout yes I agree with your theory a girl was sentenced this week to 22 years for stabbing a young girl in the park for no reason whatsoever.  She had aa episode and was held not responsible for her actions you may have heard it on the news I only half listen to news so missed the story but it did say the person responsible had been brought up without love as her Mother died when she was 15 and she was passed from pillar to post and nobody cared for her.  The killing was carried out without any provocation and just happened.

Hi Susan,,,yes,I saw that on the news. A very sad outcome,albeit very frightening too as it was completely random.

I'm thinking of the time when Sheila also visited that Monastery,,and why her fear when she exited. It would all tie-up with her thoughts and actions of that night at WHF.
I wonder if Sheila ever thought that Jeremy would get the blame.? Probably not really,,as her mind wasn't fully focussed.

[susan]

Hi lookout  don't think for one moment Sheila would have given Jeremy a thought.  Off now for my walk/run/walk walk/collapse

[maggie]

Hi Susan,,,yes,I saw that on the news. A very sad outcome,albeit very frightening too as it was completely random.

I'm thinking of the time when Sheila also visited that Monastery,,and why her fear when she exited. It would all tie-up with her thoughts and actions of that night at WHF.
I wonder if Sheila ever thought that Jeremy would get the blame.? Probably not really,,as her mind wasn't fully focussed.

I doubt Sheila was in any way aware of blame etc lookout.  Would think she was lost in her own world far away from rational thought.

[maggie]

Hi lookout  don't think for one moment Sheila would have given Jeremy a thought.  Off now for my walk/run/walk walk/collapse

Watch out for storm drains, you never know who's in them!

[lookout]

Lookout, you see the attitude still on this forum and the dark side with people talking about Sheila being a bit unwell or 'wouldn't hurt a fly'...all that stuff is dragged out time and time again.  It goes with Jeremy Bamber is a psychopath eventhough he's been tested in everyway and forever and shows no signs.  I'm sure Sheila was a lovely little girl who developed severe problems during her teenage years which became full blown paranoid schizophrenia in her 20s.  That alone is a tragedy, but even in the 21st century so many people see mental illness as some sort of disgrace as if the person involved is in someway to blame.  The whole event, Sheila's illness and the deaths are part of the tragedy as is Jeremy still sitting in prison, his is a living death.

Exactly,,Maggie.Both victims whichever way you look at it.

Attitudes don't bother me Maggie,,,as not a week goes by for what some adult doesn't kill their partners/children through mental illness of sorts. It's sadly there for all to see.. We haven't travelled that far not to be able to detect it yet. Not enough research is done into the illness and its causes and implications,,as well as complications.

Where Jeremy has gained his strength from all these years,,I don't know,,but he hasn't needed a bible that's for sure,,,which I'm glad to hear about really,as those who are guilty usually turn to the bible,or become " Born again Christians ",,,thinking they'll be forgiven for their sins.

[Roch]

Roch, do you think mothers kill their children more often now than in the past or is it just more publicised because of all our means of communication.  I remember someone in my neighbourhood whom I'd played with as a child, put sleeping pills on her little children's cereal and tried to gas herself.  Fortunately, she was discovered and treated for mental illness.  This was in the 70's and it was whispered about with much sympathy for the poor young woman. I believe women under extreme stress and mental illness have always done this.

Yes, you and others who have suggested more restrictive reporting may very well be right.  However, could it be that 27 years ago and the decades leading up to it, such crimes were more of a 'taboo'?  I'm not suggesting that in today's age there is more 'acceptance'.  Probably not the two best terms to use but I couldn't think of any other.  More reporting = more precedence = general public being less sanitised = more occurances?  Just a thought.  I don't have any research or figures.

[lookout]

Yes, you and others who have suggested more restrictive reporting may very well be right.  However, could it be that 27 years ago and the decades leading up to it, such crimes were more of a 'taboo'?  I'm not suggesting that in today's age there is more 'acceptance'.  Probably not the two best terms to use but I couldn't think of any other.  More reporting = more precedence = general public being less sanitised = more occurances?  Just a thought.  I don't have any research or figures.

More awareness,,Roch,,and not as taboo a subject as it once was,,,though we still have a long way to go about the intricacies of the brain.   

[maggie]

Yes, you and others who have suggested more restrictive reporting may very well be right.  However, could it be that 27 years ago and the decades leading up to it, such crimes were more of a 'taboo'?  I'm not suggesting that in today's age there is more 'acceptance'.  Probably not the two best terms to use but I couldn't think of any other.  More reporting = more precedence = general public being less sanitised = more occurances?  Just a thought.  I don't have any research or figures.

Yes Roch, it's hard to know really.  I think there was a taboo on talking about this as there was on so many other things so we could argue that a more open society is a better society and generally I would agree with that.  I do believe women have always killed their children  along with themselves and it isn't a new phenomena.  Gassing ie. ovens an gasfire pipes were the most common way before we had natural gas.  Maybe more men kill their children these days as they tend to be more involved with their children on a day to day level and are therefore more emotionally involved.  The advent of the car has given people a simple way of killing themselves and their children although more often it seems to be men who use this form of suicide.