THE FEAST OF THE TRANSFIGURATION celebrated on 6th August!

[Jane]

This is what makes me think that Ann Eaton's witness statement was correct where she pointed out that she was informed that both June and Sheila were on the bed side by side, the gun between them (I think? ) and the Bible on Sheila's chest.

Good Morning Grahame,
Might it be that June had read Bible stories to Sheila when she was a child in the same way other parents read fairy stories to their children, and might this have been the method she employed to soothe Sheila when she became aggitated?

[grahameb]

Good Morning Grahame,
Might it be that June had read Bible stories to Sheila when she was a child in the same way other parents read fairy stories to their children, and might this have been the method she employed to soothe Sheila when she became aggitated?

Possibly. What people do not realise is that June was old school where reading the Bible was common place among the general population. Nowadays they would call such a person a Bible thumper, or a religious nut. But was not so long ago that people in Britain lived and had Christian values that were respected. People these days cannot understand that. In fact most today have difficulty understanding their contemporaries let alone those of previous generations. Sometimes I marvel at the ignorance of modern man in regards to human nature.

[Caroline R]

If Sheila had become increasingly obsessed by religion and had grown up in a religious household (presumably this involved going to church) - why wouldn't Sheila herself have some knowledge of the bible? Because of her illness she had talked of her children being the devil's children - the Transfiguration is about being reborn (after death) and cleansed by god. Had the family been to church the previous Sunday? And had the Transfiguration been part of the service? As a Christian feast - why wouldn't it be? My brother was a paranoid schizophrenic (sadly also committed suicide) and I know how their mind twists things, it need only have been mentioned for it to later become an obsession!

I have informed the campaign team and also Jeremy - they agree that there might be something in it and it has never been mentioned before because they have never been able to find a specific significance for the bible being open at that page. Fingers crossed that something comes of it!!

[maggie]

Possibly. What people do not realise is that June was old school where reading the Bible was common place among the general population. Nowadays they would call such a person a Bible thumper, or a religious nut. But was not so long ago that people in Britain lived and had Christian values that were respected. People these days cannot understand that. In fact most today have difficulty understanding their contemporaries let alone those of previous generations. Sometimes I marvel at the ignorance of modern man in regards to human nature.

I know Grahame, being of an older generation I am far less shocked by June's moral attitudes.  My parents were intelligent rational people but their moral attitudes were far nearer to Junes than to modern day morals.

[maggie]

If Sheila had become increasingly obsessed by religion and had grown up in a religious household (presumably this involved going to church) - why wouldn't Sheila herself have some knowledge of the bible? Because of her illness she had talked of her children being the devil's children - the Transfiguration is about being reborn (after death) and cleansed by god. Had the family been to church the previous Sunday? And had the Transfiguration been part of the service? As a Christian feast - why wouldn't it be? My brother was a paranoid schizophrenic (sadly also committed suicide) and I know how their mind twists things, it need only have been mentioned for it to later become an obsession!

I have informed the campaign team and also Jeremy - they agree that there might be something in it and it has never been mentioned before because they have never been able to find a specific significance for the bible being open at that page. Fingers crossed that something comes of it!!

You are so right Caroline, I think this is a very important point and one of those simple facts which seems to have slipped through the net.  It speaks volumes.  So sorry about your brother, mental illness is such a tragedy.xx

[maggie]

If Sheila had become increasingly obsessed by religion and had grown up in a religious household (presumably this involved going to church) - why wouldn't Sheila herself have some knowledge of the bible? Because of her illness she had talked of her children being the devil's children - the Transfiguration is about being reborn (after death) and cleansed by god. Had the family been to church the previous Sunday? And had the Transfiguration been part of the service? As a Christian feast - why wouldn't it be? My brother was a paranoid schizophrenic (sadly also committed suicide) and I know how their mind twists things, it need only have been mentioned for it to later become an obsession!

I have informed the campaign team and also Jeremy - they agree that there might be something in it and it has never been mentioned before because they have never been able to find a specific significance for the bible being open at that page. Fingers crossed that something comes of it!!

Caroline, surely that could have been Sheila's suicide note.....Don't see how people can rubbish it ( unless they're totally thick) the chances of coincidence are rediculoucly slight, out of the whole bible?

[susan]

Morning mags  yes you and I have discussed this issue before and always thought the murders/suicide had religious connotations I posted this up earlier today but as usual I get ignored.  I think all the forum members other than you have me on "ignore".  Ralph had three burn marks on his back 3 was written 5 times I really think Caroline is onto something we need to find out next what the numbers refer to next.

[Caroline R]

You are so right Caroline, I think this is a very important point and one of those simple facts which seems to have slipped through the net.  It speaks volumes.  So sorry about your brother, mental illness is such a tragedy.xx

Thanks Maggie! I'ts easy for society to want to blame Jeremy because no one wants to believe any mother could kill her children - however, she wasn't well or thinking straight - she may have thought she was 'saving' them. Perhaps her intentions were to 'save' just the boys and have her mum, dad and herself as witnesses to their transfiguration (3 witnesses the same as Jesus had). It is quite possible that she turned violent (or went berserk) if someone intervened.

[maggie]

[quote aut ;Dhor=susan ingham link=topic=2970.msg106678#msg106678 date=1342518422]
Morning mags  yes you and I have discussed this issue before and always thought the murders/suicide had religious connotations I posted this up earlier today but as usual I get ignored.  I think all the forum members other than you have me on "ignore".  Ralph had three burn marks on his back 3 was written 5 times I really think Caroline is onto something we need to find out next what the numbers refer to next.
[/quote]Susie, I don't know how to put you on ignore or things may be different!!

[lookout]

If Sheila had become increasingly obsessed by religion and had grown up in a religious household (presumably this involved going to church) - why wouldn't Sheila herself have some knowledge of the bible? Because of her illness she had talked of her children being the devil's children - the Transfiguration is about being reborn (after death) and cleansed by god. Had the family been to church the previous Sunday? And had the Transfiguration been part of the service? As a Christian feast - why wouldn't it be? My brother was a paranoid schizophrenic (sadly also committed suicide) and I know how their mind twists things, it need only have been mentioned for it to later become an obsession!

I have informed the campaign team and also Jeremy - they agree that there might be something in it and it has never been mentioned before because they have never been able to find a specific significance for the bible being open at that page. Fingers crossed that something comes of it!!

Hi Caroline,,an excellent conclusion for which was a-typical of Sheila and her thoughts,,,and for which she wouldn't have seen any wrong in what she did. Therefore she wasn't responsible. Poor poor girl.

[Caroline R]

Morning mags  yes you and I have discussed this issue before and always thought the murders/suicide had religious connotations I posted this up earlier today but as usual I get ignored.  I think all the forum members other than you have me on "ignore".  Ralph had three burn marks on his back 3 was written 5 times I really think Caroline is onto something we need to find out next what the numbers refer to next.

Hi Susan, sorry, I missed your post - would never ignore anyone! . There is a significance of the number 3 throughout the bible but has specific reference to the transfiguration because there were three witnesses to the Transfiguration of Jesus (Peter, John and James). As I said before, it might also be significant that the shootings happened around 3am.

[Caroline R]

Hi Caroline,,an excellent conclusion for which was a-typical of Sheila and her thoughts,,,and for which she wouldn't have seen any wrong in what she did. Therefore she wasn't responsible. Poor poor girl.

Thanks Lookout!

[lookout]

As we are all aware,,,there are mass killings/murders committed in the name of religion.

[maggie]

Thanks Maggie! I'ts easy for society to want to blame Jeremy because no one wants to believe any mother could kill her children - however, she wasn't well or thinking straight - she may have thought she was 'saving' them. Perhaps her intentions were to 'save' just the boys and have her mum, dad and herself as witnesses to their transfiguration (3 witnesses the same as Jesus had). It is quite possible that she turned violent (or went berserk) if someone intervened.

Caroline, I have a bit of a theory, Sheila had been very withdrawn which often happens before a psychotic episode.  If for whatever reason she decided to commit suicide, she would not leave her children behind but would take them with her.  I don't see this as murder but rather accept that Sheila would see it as keeping them safe. However, Ralph or June could possibly have intervened at some point and that is how they were caught up in what was initially a suicide which turned into a domestic.  I would have thought suicide was inevitable for a paranoid schizophrenic surrounded by guns and ammunition but of course, none of the family realised this til it was too late..... Now I agree with you concerning the transfiguration it makes total sense.

[susan]

Hi caroline I think you are a very perceptive clever young lady and a great asset to this forum.  Just kidding about the ignore I can always answer my own posts   I really think you are onto something with the latest regarding all the 3,s can't wait to explore it further.