Television documentary material

[Pete0001]

Some locals used to remind us that the landing strips would have been similar to the ones that Neville Bamber - who was a former R.A.F. pilot would have been capable of landing on himself - which leads to the question of who may or may not have been putting him under pressure at the time ( Neville's conversations with secretary etc ).

Neville Bamber believed his life to be under threat for some reason.

I remember the film about the Rettendon murders, Essex Boys i think with Sean Bean, used a farmer/land owner and associated people as part of their drug smuggling schemes.  I know alot of the movie was fiction, but there was also parts that weren't.

I'm not suggesting the film was portraying JB's farm. Just that is was happening.. possibly.

[Sparkfilms]

It was happening for sure, the art of the craft was to drop the gear from 150 feet where the goods would be hurled into the back of a 4x4 and quickly disappear....then re-appear.

The main 'drop offs' in the 80's / 90's were into fields with a certain pre-planned light pattern....an octagon was popular for a while.

[Jackiepreece]

To. Pete
Now back to when the murders first happened
The police thought it was suicide
When Colin caffell opened the door to the police he said something like she's done it hasn't she
There was a strange phone call between mrs BAMBER and her sister re bambi the night of the killings
Well documented reports of bambis mental health even her attitude to her children

The investigation changed to a murder inquiry

When j mugford had a falling out with Jeremy BAMBER and told them she knew jb intended to kill his family before the event

A silencer was found long after the murders by one of the relatives who inherited money from the farm because of the conviction
It is well documented that this relation had a friendship with a policeman connected with the murder enquiry
I believe from what I have read that one of the policeman heading the second enquiry went on to work for the Balfour family who inherited the BAMBER money

I am trying to make a point that when you state jb and jm are both liars but if Julie mugford was lying she could potentially have put someone in prison for the rest of their life and I could never ever believe someones evidence that would quite happily sleep with someone who is planning murder and carry on sleeping with someone after the murders especially when that women knew two children had been murdered

[Hartley]

I am trying to make a point that when you state jb and jm are both liars but if Julie mugford was lying she could potentially have put someone in prison for the rest of their life and I could never ever believe someones evidence that would quite happily sleep with someone who is planning murder and carry on sleeping with someone after the murders especially when that women knew two children had been murdered

The point really is that both JB and JM were cross examined in front of a jury by both defence and prosecution.

Unless there is evidence to the contrary it would be wrong to accuse or assume someone is lying just because it suits their theories.

[Pete0001]

To. Pete
Now back to when the murders first happened
The police thought it was suicide
When Colin caffell opened the door to the police he said something like she's done it hasn't she
There was a strange phone call between mrs BAMBER and her sister re bambi the night of the killings
Well documented reports of bambis mental health even her attitude to her children

The investigation changed to a murder inquiry

When j mugford had a falling out with Jeremy BAMBER and told them she knew jb intended to kill his family before the event

A silencer was found long after the murders by one of the relatives who inherited money from the farm because of the conviction
It is well documented that this relation had a friendship with a policeman connected with the murder enquiry
I believe from what I have read that one of the policeman heading the second enquiry went on to work for the Balfour family who inherited the BAMBER money

I am trying to make a point that when you state jb and jm are both liars but if Julie mugford was lying she could potentially have put someone in prison for the rest of their life and I could never ever believe someones evidence that would quite happily sleep with someone who is planning murder and carry on sleeping with someone after the murders especially when that women knew two children had been murdered

yes I understand what you are saying.
I'm merely trying to point out that if posters wish to queston Mugfords background and morals then one must do the same for Jeremy.
By all accounts they commited crimes together and lied together.
In a court of law you could stand up and sling all sorts of mud at Mugford and discredit her statement.. but in doing so you would have to sling the same mud at Jeremy.
I'm not qusetioning his guilt or innonce just that on the face of the accusations on this forum regarding Mugfords behaviour at the time, which is surely only mentioned to somehow discredit her and paint her in a bad light, the same must be done for Jeremy because he was the same!

If people don't want to hear that Jeremy was a theif and a lier then they shouldn't bring it up about Mugford.
Just my opinion.

[Jackiepreece]

To pete
As I understand Jeremy was convicted mainly on the silencer and Julie
Mugfords evidence .

I do not believe Julie mugford apparently was told by Jeremy tonights the night on the day of the murders yet she continued to see Jeremy after the murders.

There are lies and there are lies that could have put someone in prison for the rest of their lives.
And apparently from the proceeds of the Newspaper article she bought a property outright
I think it is a disgrace she was used as a credible witness and I think she is lucky no charges were bought against her.  If she had told the police the story in the beginning then the police probably would have sealed of. The property and done a proper job of forensics. If you think about all of that why wasn't  she charged with perverted the course of justice     Stealing £1000 and taking a few drugs does not make someone a mass murderer

[Hartley]

To pete
As I understand Jeremy was convicted mainly on the silencer and Julie
Mugfords evidence .

To clarify, that is not completely true. They were the points highlighted in the Judges summing up when asking if the jury had come to a verdict.

The jury sat through the entire court case and their verdict must have been based on the entire trial.

[Pete0001]

To pete
As I understand Jeremy was convicted mainly on the silencer and Julie
Mugfords evidence .

I do not believe Julie mugford apparently was told by Jeremy tonights the night on the day of the murders yet she continued to see Jeremy after the murders.

There are lies and there are lies that could have put someone in prison for the rest of their lives.
And apparently from the proceeds of the Newspaper article she bought a property outright
I think it is a disgrace she was used as a credible witness and I think she is lucky no charges were bought against her.  If she had told the police the story in the beginning then the police probably would have sealed of. The property and done a proper job of forensics. If you think about all of that why wasn't  she charged with perverted the course of justice     Stealing £1000 and taking a few drugs does not make someone a mass murderer

Jackie.. I'm not arguing any of what you say.. and by your repsonce I'm inclined to think it strenghtens what I've said.
All I'm suggesting is to label Mugford a lier and theif you have to do the same to Jeremy.. by all accounts the pair of them were petty thieves and liers. So to base ones opinion on someone from previous history you must the other.

Right.. Mugford says Jeremy told her he was going to do it, Jeremy obviously says thats not true. Forget the rest.. why believe one over the other.. they both have history as crooks and liers.

[Jackiepreece]

Julie mugford appeared for the prosecution and would have been a very plausible witness after the performance at the funeral supporting Jeremy who had supposedly slaughtered all his family and standing next to Colin caffell whose children she knew were going to be murdered (tonights the night apparently Jeremy said)  It all worked out wonderfully for her nice lot of money and new life in Canada.  That womens evidence was part of the prosecution case that put Jeremy BAMBER in prison for the rest of his life. As far as I can see Jeremy was not convicted on any forensic evidence so the evidence that Julie mugford gave was essential in sealing Jeremy's fate

[Pete0001]

Julie mugford appeared for the prosecution and would have been a very plausible witness after the performance at the funeral supporting Jeremy who had supposedly slaughtered all his family and standing next to Colin caffell whose children she knew were going to be murdered (tonights the night apparently Jeremy said)  It all worked out wonderfully for her nice lot of money and new life in Canada.  That womens evidence was part of the prosecution case that put Jeremy BAMBER in prison for the rest of his life. As far as I can see Jeremy was not convicted on any forensic evidence so the evidence that Julie mugford gave was essential in sealing Jeremy's fate

Ok, so what was her motive for lying? (I'm asking as a genuinly interested person.. I'm not in either camp guilty or innocent).

They were very close before that night, had committed crimes together and lied together.. many would argue that hereing the person your deeply in love say they would kill their family would be taken as nothing more than angst or rubbish talk. Many people say "I'll kill you!" or " your dead meat!" in the heat of the moment or a means to show anger... but its not taken seriously.

Because she was offered money for her story and because she stood next to jeremy at the funeral doesn't mean she made the whole thing up.
The fact that Jeremy went on wild spending sprees after the murders, bought expensive clothes and went on holidays was his way of dealing with grief apparently.. some might suggest otherwise.

Your saying Mugfords behaviour was not that of someone who knew her boyfriend had killed his family... Was Jeremys behaviour that of someone who's family had just been murdered?

Just posing questions.. I'm not decided either way... but until REAL HARD evidence comes to light we won't know.
But I do agree he needs a retrial.

[Kaldin]

I don't think there's any way to know if Julie Mugford was lying or not. It seems bizarre however you look at it. Either she went around for a month with someone who had confessed to hiring someone to kill his entire family, or she thought nothing of putting a man in prison for something he didn't do.

I wonder how she coped in that year between the murders and the trial. I also wonder if she was afraid that he might get off.

[Jackiepreece]

Thank god you agree that Jeremy needs a retrial. That all he wants right now

[Kaldin]

It's all rather similar to the David Bain case in New Zealand, which happened in the 90s. He had a retrial and got off.

[Pete0001]

Thank god you agree that Jeremy needs a retrial. That all he wants right now

Yes I do want a retrial but I want it on hard evidence and facts that will prove his innocence.. Not a technicality that proves nothing other than if you look hard enough you will find fault in most things!!

I've yet to see any evidence that proves he's innocent.

[Jackiepreece]

But he was not convicted on hard evidence that's why a lot of knowledgable people are supporting Jeremy BAMBER gets a retrial
Don't forget the police have admitted a bumbling investigation
For some reason evidence has been destroyed even though there was always likely to be an appeal
Also police are still withholding over 200 negatives and 340,000 documents

Maybe the hard evidence is sitting there
Open and transparent might be the way forward for Essex police