Television documentary material

[Jackiepreece]

How soon could a documentary be made in view of the ruling of the ccrc in three months.  I would also like to make a point about the lie detector test that Jeremy took and passed roughly 3 times a day the Jeremy Kyle show is on national television.  The show is very popular and many big companies spend millions advertising during that show.  One of the most popular subjects on that show is the lie detector test which as far as
I know there have never been any formal or legal complaint about a lie detector result. I think that probably shows the accuracy of these tests over quite a few years. Could anyone let me know if I am wrong

[mb1]

Lie detector results are not permitted to be used as evidence in court in England, Wales + NI - not sure about Scotland.

Am I right in assuming the prison authorities must have sanctioned the legal team arranging the test? Was the tester allowed in with their kit? Which company administered the test?

[mb1]

With regard to the girl in the pub i agree that the girl should have been prosecuted but i meant to add the jealous girl in the pub actually went to considerable lengths to have the girl caught by the police following her on many occasions to see what route she took home not just informing the police. Julie mugford the headteacher and also the girl that carried on seeing Jeremy before the killings and after the killings.  This good upstanding citizen could maybe have stopped the murders couldnt she.  She stood at that funeral next to Colin caffell knowing that Jeremy planned to kill the family and she hadn't told anyone look at her face in those photographs what do you see

So are you saying JM should be charged as an accomplice after the fact? Therefore, JB is guilty and should remain in prison.

[Jackiepreece]

No I didn't mean that at all I have not up to this point seen anything to convince me Jeremy was guilty.  I think she knew he did not do it and dressed for the occasion as at that point was Jeremy partner and would also enjoy any inheritance that came his way.  I think as soon as it looked like she might not be part of Jeremy's future her attitude changed.  Have you read horseydaves comments that she slept with two other men on a short holiday. It seems she didn't have a care in the world not someone racked with guilt that she could have prevented a whole family being killed. I can't see any reason for horsey dave to lie and just an add on to that he got to know Jeremy over a few weeks and he didn't think Jeremy did it.  Maybe a better character reference than some of the general public making assumptions on a photo of Jeremy smiling in a photo !!!!

[mb1]

No I didn't mean that at all I have not up to this point seen anything to convince me Jeremy was guilty.  I think she knew he did not do it and dressed for the occasion as at that point was Jeremy partner and would also enjoy any inheritance that came his way.  I think as soon as it looked like she might not be part of Jeremy's future her attitude changed.  Have you read horseydaves comments that she slept with two other men on a short holiday. It seems she didn't have a care in the world not someone racked with guilt that she could have prevented a whole family being killed. I can't see any reason for horsey dave to lie and just an add on to that he got to know Jeremy over a few weeks and he didn't think Jeremy did it.  Maybe a better character reference than some of the general public making assumptions on a photo of Jeremy smiling in a photo !!!!

Thanks Jackie. I was getting confused as to whether you thought JM a co-conspirator who got away with it or a bitter woman who lied.
I'm willing to consider she was a bit of a wild one etc, who told a lie that snowballed out of control. Perhaps the consequences actually forced her to turn her life around.
But even if she did lie - and there seems to be no way of proving that - her lies didn't convict JB. The silencer did. And following on from today's discussions, perhaps the final shell casing not being in the gun and the position of the spent casings add to that. And clean feet.

I'm off to spend time mulling all the info regarding the silencer and casings!

 

[Jackiepreece]

I am confused now I thought Julie mugfords evidence was one of the reasons Jeremy was convicted so you are saying there is conclusive forensic evidence regarding the silencer (which was found by the relatives who inherited all the money) proving beyond reasonable doubt Jeremy was responsible for the murders

[Kaldin]

I am confused now I thought Julie mugfords evidence was one of the reasons Jeremy was convicted so you are saying there is conclusive forensic evidence regarding the silencer (which was found by the relatives who inherited all the money) proving beyond reasonable doubt Jeremy was responsible for the murders

I think Julie Mugford's evidence was important but there's no way of knowing why the jury convicted him really. The evidence re the silencer at the trial was very important as it was thought then that the blood in it was Sheila's.

If you're interested in the ins and outs of the trial and later appeals, you can read about it in the Appeal document of 2002. It does contain quite a lot about the original trial.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.htm

[Jackiepreece]

I have read a lot of documents but certain subjects like the moderator I don't think I am knowledgable enough to make important comments but I really wanted to say that as I understand Jeremy would be happy to get a retrial he is not even asking for an instant release for an unsafe verdict and as we are talking about someone with a whole life tariff (to die in prison) for the sake of British Justice this case has to be looked at again. I truly believe the majority of the British public would also welcome a retrial. As I understand Jeremy is the only one of the prisoners with a whole life tariff that says he is innocent. Also is it true that if you continually protest your innocence in prison it can affect different aspects of how you are treated in prison.

[Kaldin]

I have read a lot of documents but certain subjects like the moderator I don't think I am knowledgable enough to make important comments but I really wanted to say that as I understand Jeremy would be happy to get a retrial he is not even asking for an instant release for an unsafe verdict and as we are talking about someone with a whole life tariff (to die in prison) for the sake of British Justice this case has to be looked at again. I truly believe the majority of the British public would also welcome a retrial. As I understand Jeremy is the only one of the prisoners with a whole life tariff that says he is innocent. Also is it true that if you continually protest your innocence in prison it can affect different aspects of how you are treated in prison.

I would like to see a retrial too, but I can't see it happening unless something dramatic happens.

[Jackiepreece]

Thankyou for that I just keep reading that this is such a political case and I worry because Jeremy keeps saying if the conviction is found to be unsafe he wants action taken against the people who have covered up evidence surely he will never get his case referred to the appeal court if he keeps saying that.  From what I have read in depth nobody really believes the ccrc to be independant or impartial. 4% of cases referred ?

[Kaldin]

Thankyou for that I just keep reading that this is such a political case and I worry because Jeremy keeps saying if the conviction is found to be unsafe he wants action taken against the people who have covered up evidence surely he will never get his case referred to the appeal court if he keeps saying that.  From what I have read in depth nobody really believes the ccrc to be independant or impartial. 4% of cases referred ?

In the appeal of 2002 there were accusations that the police witheld evidence and covered things up, and it didn't go down well with the appeal judges, so I think he should be careful about basing another appeal on similar accusations.

[mb1]

I have read a lot of documents but certain subjects like the moderator I don't think I am knowledgable enough to make important comments but I really wanted to say that as I understand Jeremy would be happy to get a retrial he is not even asking for an instant release for an unsafe verdict and as we are talking about someone with a whole life tariff (to die in prison) for the sake of British Justice this case has to be looked at again. I truly believe the majority of the British public would also welcome a retrial. As I understand Jeremy is the only one of the prisoners with a whole life tariff that says he is innocent. Also is it true that if you continually protest your innocence in prison it can affect different aspects of how you are treated in prison.

I would like to see a retrial too, but I can't see it happening unless something dramatic happens.

I agree - a retrial would be fair in light of the terrible mis-management of the case and the fact that he has been given a whole life tariff.
But it requires considerable doubt to be placed on the evidence used in the trial, or new evidence. Or a public campaign.
People would still need convincing about the silencer, casings and clean feet etc if the Sheila suicide/murder is given as the alternative. It appears JB's case is less about proving himself innocent and more about proving SC guilty, and those are notoriously hard to win. And they make people feel uncomfortable as the accused aren't able to defend themselves.

Me, I'm still bothered by the Horsey Dave's lights in concrete and small aircraft... 

[Sparkfilms]

Landing lights were a common scene in the Essex outback for 20 years or so.

Not to mention light landing craft bringing weed and pills ashore.

'Drugs 'R' Us' was the word on the street from Basildon to Chelmsford to Tollesbury.

[mb1]

Landing lights were a common scene in the Essex outback for 20 years or so.

Not to mention light landing craft bringing weed and pills ashore.

'Drugs 'R' Us' was the word on the street from Basildon to Chelmsford to Tollesbury.

And there was a lot of drugs associated crime, including murders.

Was there ever any mention of JB being in big debt?

[Sparkfilms]

Some locals used to remind us that the landing strips would have been similar to the ones that Neville Bamber - who was a former R.A.F. pilot would have been capable of landing on himself - which leads to the question of who may or may not have been putting him under pressure at the time ( Neville's conversations with secretary etc ).

Neville Bamber believed his life to be under threat for some reason.