telephone logs.

[susan]

Hi steve  thanks very much for the thread on the views of the Basingstoke MP I seem to think he offered to put up bail money for Jeremy if he needed it. It is so refreshing to read the views of a complete outsider.

[campion]

  re: The Jam - Post #185
  Yabber  Dabber Doo.
  HEARTS, you've come up TRUMPS
 Who was manning Witham Police Control Room/Information Desk  at the relevant time?
  Can you kindly lead us to that Station's all important, telehone logs, Radio message, and car movement logs, not forgetting the WHF Alarm actification/notification?
  Thanking you in anticipation, yours truly, Albertross Campion
 

[mike tesko]

It should not have become an exhibit in itself,but ought to have been shown in its entirety as part of a 24 page log. A further complication is that these first two pages had been rewritten and edited,thereby making them next to worthless in a court of law. I'm inclined to the PC Bewes theory that it was more cock-up than conspiracy,though there is a report here by the former MP Andrew Hunter which had the jury known all the facts would possibly not have led to the conviction of the defendant.http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmhansrd/vo050209/halltext/50209h05.htm

External documentary or photographic aides used in testimony are always given a court exhibit reference number and retained by the court dealing with the case - stop talking nonsense...

Logs have been tampered with for one purpose,and one purpose alone, and that is to cover up the true facts and circumstances of what took place...

[-Harters-]

When did Jeremy state that? The number wouldn't have been in the Yellow Pages. I thought he stated that getting through to the police took ten minutes at the outside. However, that would have included looking up the numbers for both Witham and Chelmsford police stations and unsuccessfully attempting to get through to Witham.

In an interview on the 8th & 9th September 1985.
Extract below, see this thread for the full document: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1144.0.html


Also an extract from the 2002 Appeal Judgement:

144. Having received the telephone call from his father, the appellant said that it had not crossed his mind to use the 999 system to call the police. Instead he described spending a little time looking up the number for Colchester Police Station. On that particular page of the directory (which he was shown in the witness box) it reads in bold type, "In emergency call the operator (dial 999 where appropriate) and ask for the police". The appellant agreed that on his account, even though his father had asked him to come quickly, he had then telephoned Julie Mugford and then driven slowly to the farmhouse. He agreed it would also have been possible for him to have called one of the farm workers. He said he had not considered that.

After his arrest, Jeremy confirmed that he phoned Julie and then rang the police. He also thought his original statement would have been accurate. However, I think it was his 7/8/85 statement that was inaccurate in some respects.
I think that his estimate in his 7/8/85 statement of 3:10 am as the time when his father called him was probably also inaccurate, but only because 26 minutes would have been rather long. I think that he was called before he rang Julie, but his call to Julie was, according to Julie's statement of 8/8/85, made at about 3:30 am.

I would be interested to see Jeremy's second statement (made on 8/8/85 I think) if mike tesko is able to post a copy of it.

That statement is located here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1091.msg33765.html#msg33765

It doesn't add much more to the call timing though.

[Steve_uk]

Maybe I was wrong when I said they were worthless in a court of law and I'm sorry if so as I am not a lawyer,but the jury should have been shown the complete log. It's my opinion that as the crime happened in the early hours of the morning the original logs may have been incomplete,had spelling mistakes and so on and were rewritten later with possible Police collusion no doubt,but why would the Police want to cover up "the true facts and circumstances of what took place"? Their boss DCI "Taff" Jones was satisfied that it was a domestic argument and it would have been much simpler for the lower ranks just to go along with that. It was rumblings of discontent from some of the PCs involved with the case and the tenacity of the surviving relatives which led to the different outcome.
[/quote]

[Steve_uk]

In an interview on the 8th & 9th September 1985.
Extract below, see this thread for the full document: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1144.0.html


Also an extract from the 2002 Appeal Judgement:
That statement is located here: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php

On 8 August 1985 Julie Mugford told the Police that Jeremy had telephoned her at 3-30am. However Julie's flatmates put the call at anywhere between 0200-0315 which would place the call prior to Jeremy having phoned the Police. The question is why phone Julie Mugford if you suspect a genuine emergency at White House Farm? We are told that Jeremy asked the Police on the phone why they were taking so long to respond,yet he first telephones Julie. As for Jeremy flapping around in the Yellow Pages for ten minutes,the suspicion this arouses is he didn't want to dial 999 twice,as he would have been put through to the Divisional Headquarters of Essex Police and possibly the same person would have answered Jeremy's call,thus leaving open the possibility that the receiver of the call would guess that the same person had made both calls. Therefore there was one call to 999 and another to the local Police station.

[mike tesko]

Ds "Stan" Jones job was to generate enough confusion surrounding the timing of the calls to warrant the arrest of Jeremy in connection with the four murders and Sheila's death. When you look into everything, it was DS Jones who started this whole thing off trying to put Jeremy in the frame, which included the attempt to suggest that he had been lying about the timing of calls made to the police and his girlfriend - when all along police had access to metered call records which could easily have been used to prove, or disprove the true sequence of events concerning who called who, and when? All the police had to do, was obtain access to the metered call logs pertaining to the telephone at whf, and Jeremys cottage...

[vidvic]

Steve,,,it wasn't the father who instigated arguments,,,it was June,,,as both her and Sheila were daggers drawn at times and June was like a red rag to a bull when Sheila was around.  Indeed,Nevill was the mainstay of the family,,and acted as a go-between if trouble arose. Whenever Sheilas' bouts got out of hand,Nevill would phone Jeremy to assist him in calming her down,,,most likely to try and reason with her.

Where ever did you get this info, as it's nonsense.

[mike tesko]

Ds "Stan" Jones job was to generate enough confusion surrounding the timing of the calls to warrant the arrest of Jeremy in connection with the four murders and Sheila's death. When you look into everything, it was DS Jones who started this whole thing off trying to put Jeremy in the frame, which included the attempt to suggest that he had been lying about the timing of calls made to the police and his girlfriend - when all along police had access to metered call records which could easily have been used to prove, or disprove the true sequence of events concerning who called who, and when? All the police had to do, was obtain access to the metered call logs pertaining to the telephone at whf, and Jeremys cottage...

I would suggest in the strongest possible terms that in fact the police did obtain access to these metered call records, and that they found out the true sequence of events involving all the calls made from whf and from Jeremys cottage, between 6pm on Tuesday, 6th August 1985 and 8am on Wednesday, 7th August 1985. These were deliberately withheld and concealed  from the defence and the court which tried this matter, because the prosecution had to try and portray Jeremy as a liar, and to suggest that Ralph Bamber did not make the call to him from whf to his cottage in the middle of the night, when all along police had confirmation that such a call had taken place...

[lebaleb]

Why would Jeremy call 999? It was obviously not an emergency situation at the time of Ralph's call otherwise he would have called 999 himself or at least asked Jeremy to contact the police. The telephone logs could prove Jeremy's innocence because anyone who had been contacted by a call from WHF on the night of the murders would have come forward so it's not feasable that the call could have been to anyone else.

[lookout]

Why would Jeremy call 999? It was obviously not an emergency situation at the time of Ralph's call otherwise he would have called 999 himself or at least asked Jeremy to contact the police. The telephone logs could prove Jeremy's innocence because anyone who had been contacted by a call from WHF on the night of the murders would have come forward so it's not feasable that the call could have been to anyone else.

Indeed,,,lebaleb.Jeremy wasn't to know that it was a full blown emergency. Maybe if he had have realised,,he'd have still been blamed for knowing that it was.!

[grahameb]

Why would Jeremy call 999? It was obviously not an emergency situation at the time of Ralph's call otherwise he would have called 999 himself or at least asked Jeremy to contact the police. The telephone logs could prove Jeremy's innocence because anyone who had been contacted by a call from WHF on the night of the murders would have come forward so it's not feasable that the call could have been to anyone else.

Possible the reason Jeremy didn't dial 999 was because this kind of thing might have happened before, but no one had got to know about it? But of course there may be many reason why he didn't? They have been times when I could have dialed 999 and afterwards I wish I had. But there was this thought at the back of my mind, "Should I bother the police when it may turn out to be nothing?" After all the family were no strangers to Sheila's outbursts and lets face it, what is a slim petite girl like Sheila going to to?
But have you noticed that after nearly every shooting where innocent people are massacred those that knew the shooters say things like, "I could never picture him as a murderer. He was such a mild mannered person". It is always a surprise that those particular people could do such terrible things.

[lookout]

Possible the reason Jeremy didn't dial 999 was because this kind of thing might have happened before, but no one had got to know about it? But of course there may be many reason why he didn't? They have been times when I could have dialed 999 and afterwards I wish I had. But there was this thought at the back of my mind, "Should I bother the police when it may turn out to be nothing?" After all the family were no strangers to Sheila's outbursts and lets face it, what is a slim petite girl like Sheila going to to?
But have you noticed that after nearly every shooting where innocent people are massacred those that knew the shooters say things like, "I could never picture him as a murderer. He was such a mild mannered person". It is always a surprise that those particular people could do such terrible things.

Exactly,Grahame.Nevill never liked fuss and officialdom being involved,,,so because it was instilled in Jeremy,he tried to keep the " incident " low-key. He wasn't to know otherwise.Why should he.?

[-Harters-]

Possible the reason Jeremy didn't dial 999 was because this kind of thing might have happened before, but no one had got to know about it? But of course there may be many reason why he didn't? They have been times when I could have dialled 999 and afterwards I wish I had. But there was this thought at the back of my mind, "Should I bother the police when it may turn out to be nothing?

Unfortunately that doesn't make any sense. In Jeremy's own words he dialled local police rather than 999 because he didn't think it made any difference which number he called. Obviously a 999 call wouldn't have required him to look up the number first.
Therefore the reasons he didn't call 999 were, by his own admission, nothing to do with the urgency of the situation.

[lookout]

Unfortunately that doesn't make any sense. In Jeremy's own words he dialled local police rather than 999 because he didn't think it made any difference which number he called. Obviously a 999 call wouldn't have required him to look up the number first.
Therefore the reasons he didn't call 999 were, by his own admission, nothing to do with the urgency of the situation.

I think it makes as much sense as your theories,JR.