Author Topic: telephone logs.  (Read 84654 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #165 on: July 09, 2012, 09:51:PM »
Did someone else other than PC West pass information at 3:26am, to Malcolm Bonnet relating to the call made by Ralph Bamber, and is this why PC West continues to maintain that he contacted Bonnet after Jeremy called him at 3:36am, and has West changed the timing of the call to 3:36am, to try and deflect attention away from the first part of the message (3:26am) "Daughter has got one of my guns"?

What becomes clear, is that nothing Jeremy said to PC West could be mistakenly interpreted to mean what is recorded from 3:26am, ( daughter has got one of my guns) onward (to 3:36am). On the other hand, the contents recorded in the second part (Sheila has got the gun) do generally relate to the gist of what Jeremy spoke to PC West about. PC West records Jeremy's call at 3:36am, some 10 minutes after the other details had already been passed and recorded by Malcolm Bonnet...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...


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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #168 on: July 09, 2012, 10:27:PM »
. . . the original statements made by these police officers, and any other witness who testifies in the case, would be kept on the court file, and bear the official court stamp - which is why I know the log (3:36am) was never an exhibit during the trial because the official court stamp for Chelmsford CC is absent, and not present on any copy of the same...
It's not the case that every single page of every document used in a trial has a court stamp or exhibit reference on it. The court transcript shows Pc West was handed a document that he accepted as his own log of the call he received and there is nothing to suggest that his log, as posted on this forum, differs from the log that he was handed during the trial.

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #169 on: July 09, 2012, 10:29:PM »
I'm working off my iPhone so can't put it up, but if you google Ralph phone call to police, then look at either daily mirror story or Wikipedia item on Jeremy bamber, you'll see the log, with the Chelmsford crown court stamp on the left hand side, half way down. Has a reference number too.

Bonnetts log is on the forum, there are two versions, one with a court stamp and one without, clearly the one without is a copy taken before the stamp was applied.
Clearly Bonnetts log was available at court.

Wests log is on this forum, there is only one version of it and it does not have a court stamp, this indicates that it is a copy taken before a stamp was applied (if a stamp was indeed applied), it does not indicate that it was not available at court. In addition to this, the log is referred to in PC West trial transcript, the log is handed to him in front of the entire court.
Clearly Wests log was available at trial.

Anybody who tries to tell you differently is attempting to mislead you.

The statements and logs of West and Bonnett clearly indicate that a call from Ralph to the police did not take place.

 Anybody who tries to tell you differently is attempting to mislead you.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 10:30:PM by -The Jam- »

Online Steve_uk

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #170 on: July 09, 2012, 10:55:PM »
The police said they found Nevill downstairs in the kitchen, dressed in pyjamas, amid a scene that suggested there had been a struggle, though Bamber's lawyers suggested at appeal that some or all of the mayhem in the kitchen may have been caused by the armed police when they broke into the house.[46] Nevill's body was slumped forward over an overturned chair next to the fireplace, his head resting just above a coal scuttle. The police said chairs and stools were overturned, and there was broken crockery, a broken sugar basin, and what looked like blood on the floor. A ceiling light lampshade had been broken. A telephone was lying on one of the surfaces with its receiver off the hook, and several .22 shells beside it. He had been shot eight times, six times to the head and face, fired when the rifle was a few inches from his skin. The remaining shots to his body had occurred from at least two feet away. Based on where the empty cartridges were found—three were in the kitchen, and one on the stairs—the police concluded he had been shot four times upstairs, but had managed to get downstairs where a struggle took place, during which he was hit several times with the rifle and shot again, this time fatally.[47]

The above is from Wikipedia:The White House Murders.  It does not specifically state that Nevill Bamber is shot in the bedroom,but if not he could have telephoned from there,except the phone which had been in the Bambers' bedroom was found downstairs in the kitchen,and the kitchen phone had been put under some magazines. I don't understand how Nevill can make a call after he has been attacked with the gun physically,as he would not be able to speak properly,and if he did not make the call in the bedroom he had to have made it in the kitchen,but there is no blood on the phone.

If Neville Bamber is coming downstairs wounded as the blood trail suggests why does he not try to reach for a gun in the gun cupboard. He apparently has the strength of two hands to dial two telephone numbers,yet the line goes dead after only one sentence.

Is it not more likely that Neville Bamber heard an intruder upstairs and was shot,then managed to get downstairs to try and reach the gun that was left on the settle by Jeremy the previous night. He did not make any phone call. Then realizing that the intruder was Jeremy who had taken the gun he fought for his life,which would explain the brutality of his injuries. The left side of his lip was wounded, his jaw was fractured,his teeth,neck and larynx were damaged.He had black eyes,broken nose,bruising to the cheeks,cuts to the head,bruising to the right forearm and circular burn-type marks on his back which suggest he was hit with the rifle. This makes the injuries far more likely to have been made by Jeremy than Sheila,who seemed to be like a zombie when she answered the phone call the previous evening(was it Pamela that rang) and looked like she was in the middle of her period,which might also explain why June Bamber missed her church meeting that last night. It's also suspicious that the cellphone wasn't working,all these events when Jeremy was sniffing around,who knew that the whole family would be at the farm that evening and had phoned Julie Mugford saying "Tonight's the night".

As for the telephone logs,is there indisputable evidence that one call was made from White House Farm and one from Jeremy's cottage at Goldhanger? Do we know definitively that both Police telephone logs were contemporaneous,or was it possible one had been written retrospectively?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 11:21:PM by Steve_uk »

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #171 on: July 09, 2012, 11:18:PM »
It's interesting that Pc West's log (as posted on the forum) seems to indicate that a unit was sent as a consequence of Pc West contacting Witham (CW), as this contact would have been after JB called, which he logged as having occurred at 3:36, but Malcolm Bonnett's log shows the unit as having been sent at 3:35. However, Bonnett may not have known that the time that he logged was accurate to the minute; he may have had to estimate it.

Jeremy's information suggests that his father had not already been injured when he called Jeremy.

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #172 on: July 10, 2012, 12:55:AM »
It's interesting that Pc West's log (as posted on the forum) seems to indicate that a unit was sent as a consequence of Pc West contacting Witham (CW), as this contact would have been after JB called, which he logged as having occurred at 3:36, but Malcolm Bonnett's log shows the unit as having been sent at 3:35. However, Bonnett may not have known that the time that he logged was accurate to the minute; he may have had to estimate it.

Jeremy's information suggests that his father had not already been injured when he called Jeremy.

Would Bonnet not have been informed by radio that a unit was attending?

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #173 on: July 10, 2012, 01:11:AM »
PC West details his contact to Witham when giving evidence in court.


« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 11:22:AM by -The Jam- »

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #174 on: July 10, 2012, 01:26:AM »
In that transcript, Pc West doesn't say that he gave the HQ IR the exact time of despatch. His next reported action was speaking to JB again.

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #175 on: July 10, 2012, 02:49:AM »
In that transcript, Pc West doesn't say that he gave the HQ IR the exact time of despatch. His next reported action was speaking to JB again.

Pc West contacted CW by landline, I can only assume that Bews/Myall/Saxby (CA07) responded and informed HQ via radio that they were attending?

Meanwhile HQ (Bonnett) also despatched unit CA05 to the scene from Chelmsford?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 02:50:AM by -The Jam- »

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #176 on: July 10, 2012, 03:59:AM »
Possibly, but CA7 may have reported back to Witham at that stage. By the way, I think that Malcolm Bonnett later told COLP that it was he that had contacted CA7 and sent it to the scene, thereby apparently contradicting both himself and Pc West.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 04:14:AM by Reader »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #177 on: July 10, 2012, 04:07:AM »
 
It's not the case that every single page of every document used in a trial has a court stamp or exhibit reference on it. The court transcript shows Pc West was handed a document that he accepted as his own log of the call he received and there is nothing to suggest that his log, as posted on this forum, differs from the log that he was handed during the trial.
That is incorrect. PC West was shown the other (3:26am) log with reference to comments attributed to him which  he spoke to Malcolm Bonnet about. This is why log 3:26am bears the court stamp and the court exhibit reference number 9, whilst the other log (3:36am) does not. PC West was being shown the 3:26am log with part of the message contained therein, hence when asked to confirm it was a record of what Jeremy had told him, he confirmed it was. The fact of the matter is that only one log (3:26 am) was disclosed and exhibited, and if I am wrong about that, how can it be explained that a log  (3:36am) which was wrtten in PC Wests own hand not have the court stamp upon it, and no court exhibit number associated with or to it? Whilst the other (3:26am) which bears some comments attributed to himself does? PC West was not shown and he did not handle and did not refer to the different conflicting log contents contained in both logs, only one of them. It seems clear to me which of the two logs in question PC West was looking at and dealing with  during the trial (3:26am) because that is the only log wghch bears the xourt stamp and a reference to the court exhibit...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 04:32:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #178 on: July 10, 2012, 04:27:AM »
You must be incorrect. At the top of page 4 of the transcript, it states that Pc West said "I am sorry, it is recorded on the front. He said that she was aged 27." This shows that Pc West must have been referring to his own log, as Malcolm Bonnett's log shows Sheila's age as 26.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: telephone logs.
« Reply #179 on: July 10, 2012, 04:48:AM »
You must be incorrect. At the top of page 4 of the transcript, it states that Pc West said "I am sorry, it is recorded on the front. He said that she was aged 27." This shows that Pc West must have been referring to his own log, as Malcolm Bonnett's log shows Sheila's age as 26.

Which brings us back to why his own log (3:36am) does not bear the court stamp or any reference to the court exhibit number 9, yet log 3:26am does? The testimony in the transcript is inconsistent with the log which bears the coutt stamp and reference to court exhibit 9? So in this respect I am correct...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 04:51:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...