telephone logs.

[susan]

Hi april 1  a very good point you made about what Neville said I must never turn my back on that young man.  I agree with your sentiments as to what he actually meant by it I feel nothing sinister about the remark just meant I will always be there for him.

[mike tesko]

The age isn't a concern to me, maybe Jeremy described Sheila as being "26 or 27", West recorded one, Bonnett recorded the other, it's not an important detail, Sheilas age (whether 26 or 27) had no relevance to the required response of the police. Just like the description of 'Berserk' versus 'Crazy'.

Why did West need to have stayed on the phone (although it's quite conceivable that he did)? Did Bonnett tell him a unit had been despatched to the scene, or would be dispatched? When was that information recorded, during the call with Jeremy or afterwards? They were all in constant contact after that anyway, as can be seen from the recorded logs.

Produce the audio recordings of all the conversations between PC West and Malcolm Bonnet at the material time we are talking about, and then it will be "GAME OVER". These are being deliberately withheld for a reason, think about it...

[lookout]

Hi april 1  a very good point you made about what Neville said I must never turn my back on that young man.  I agree with your sentiments as to what he actually meant by it I feel nothing sinister about the remark just meant I will always be there for him.

Hi Susan,,,yes,a lot has to do with the interpretation  or misinterpretation of a sentence. Barbara Wilson didn't have a bad thing to say about Jeremy.
It would seem that the only ones who disliked him were the relatives!.

[mike tesko]

Another thing, funny how these comments made by PC West and Malcolm Bonnet do not appear in any witness statement, until after the nature of the investigation changes into five murders and Jeremy becomes a suspect?

[susan]

Hi lookout I seem to think she spoke very highly of Jeremy.

[mike tesko]

How can it not exist and not have existed at all, given that it has already been posted on this forum and is referred to in the court transcript?

It was not available at the time of the trial, it did not exist in its present format, and may not necessarily be the log being referred to in transcript during the trial. The only way anyone can be absolutely sure would be if the log in question being spoken about was identified by an official court exhibit reference number allocated to it in the same transcript, and if the log in question, had the corresponding court exhibit reference number stamped upon it...
 

[mike tesko]

Here we are trying to work out if one of the logs was or was not disclosed during the trial, but the real issue is whether or not both logs were disclosed together - I am afraid not...

[Roch]

Hi lookout I seem to think she spoke very highly of Jeremy.

A cynic might argue that she viewed him through rose tinted specs prior to the killings and then through same specs as RWB, CAE & co after the killings. 

[mike tesko]

Why does the phone go dead after a short call..why does it say in one of the logs "message passed to CD by the son of Mr. Bamber"? We know that Ralph(Nevill) had been shot in the bedroom,so if he made the phone call in the kitchen there would be blood on the phone there..if he has the strength to make two phone calls,one to Jeremy,one to the Police then surely he could have grabbed one of the many guns in the house for protection knowing what kind of a man he was. If Ralph wanted to keep the incident "in-house" to prevent a scandal why phone the Police at all? And why phone the son whom he had said to Barbara Wilson the secretary "I must never turn my back on that young man"?

It has not been scientifically proven that Ralph had been shot whilst present in the bedroom, where do you get your information from? At least four bullet cases were introduced into the bedroom scenario by DC Hammersley acting upon instruction from PI "Bob" Miller, so with this in mind the 12 bullet cases found in the vicinity or in the bedroom, needs to be drastically reduced to a total of eight?

Seven bullet cases for June, and the other one for Sheila - end of maths lesson....

[mike tesko]

It's evident that Malcolm Bonnett recorded that he was called by Pc West, but that's not the current issue. The issue is whether the details recorded about the call Pc West said he had received related to a call from Jeremy to Pc West or a call from Ralph to Pc West or both (if the lower paragraph related to a separate call from Pc West).

Access to audio recordings spoken about by Malcolm Bonnet, in connection with the call he received from PC west at 3:26am himself in a witness statement, dated, December 1985, resolves this matter instantly but police, DPP /CPS will not disclose its contents...

Work it out in your own minds as to the reason why they are terrified of disclosing the relevant audio tapes of the conversations between PC West and Malcolm Bonnet?

[mike tesko]

Ok, I see what you're getting at but if that were the case then surely there would be a record of Ralph's call to PC West, and possibly a record of a second (or prior) call from West to Bonnet since JB was still on the line when West called Bonnet during his call.

Also, imagine the coversation: JB says to West "my father called me and said my sister has gone crazy and has a gun (etc)". West calls Bonnet and says "I have received a called from a JB, who has said that his father (RB) has called him to say his sister has gone crazy and has a gun". From that Bonnet isn't going to know whether the person with the gun is JBs sister, or RB's sister, so clarification would have to be sought, which would be JB's sister, RB's daughter, hence the way that MB's log is written, and then the last paragraph as clarification of the circumstances of the call.

Produce audio recordings, problem is then solved?

[Neil]

It has not been scientifically proven that Ralph had been shot whilst present in the bedroom, where do you get your information from? At least four bullet cases were introduced into the bedroom scenario by DC Hammersley acting upon instruction from PI "Bob" Miller, so with this in mind the 12 bullet cases found in the vicinity or in the bedroom, needs to be drastically reduced to a total of eight?

Seven bullet cases for June, and the other one for Sheila - end of maths lesson....

So are there conflicting accounts of where the bullet cases were found?

[-Harters-]

So are there conflicting accounts of where the bullet cases were found?

No there is not.

[mike tesko]

I just cant see this arguement on time can ever bear fruit.what will it prove.enlighten me please

No, the argument or issue is the contents of both timed logs, One (3:26am) which has mention of words attributable to Ralph Bamber (Daughter has got one of my guns) and Jeremy (Sister has got the gun), as opposed to and compared against the contents contained in the other log (3:36am) where there are only references to Jeremy's call to PC West? Basically put, nothing which PC West says to Malcolm Bonnet between 3:26am and 3:36am, can be attributable to what Jeremy told PC West, because Jeremy did not make his call to PC West until 3:36am? Any comments recorded in log 3:26am by Bonnet must be information which PC West obtained from another source other than from Jeremy, and since the recorded words imply that "My daughter has got one of my guns" it appears to be the case that the only other person who might have had good reason to call the police, was non other than Ralph Bamber. Furthermore, since Jeremy did not call PC West until after the occupants of CA07 had been deployed to the scene at 3:35am...

[-Harters-]

Access to audio recordings spoken about by Malcolm Bonnet, in connection with the call he received from PC west at 3:26am himself in a witness statement, dated, December 1985, resolves this matter instantly but police, DPP /CPS will not disclose its contents...

Work it out in your own minds as to the reason why they are terrified of disclosing the relevant audio tapes of the conversations between PC West and Malcolm Bonnet?

As per the Dickenson Report, the audio tapes no loger exist.

Things that don't exist can be requested, but I don't fancy your chances.