Author Topic: Sheila's feet  (Read 16964 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Alex

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2011, 03:29:PM »
I don't think the gun has been moved.  Judging from the view of the side of the bed and of the bible, you can tell that the angle of each shot is different.  But the the gun itself is in the same place in relation to each part of the body in both photos.  Only the arm is in a different place, as far as I can judge; I don't think the legs have been moved, I think they just appear further apart below the knee due to the angle and perhaps a slightly fuller view of them in the second picture.

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2011, 03:56:PM »
I don't think the gun has been moved.  Judging from the view of the side of the bed and of the bible, you can tell that the angle of each shot is different.  But the the gun itself is in the same place in relation to each part of the body in both photos.  Only the arm is in a different place, as far as I can judge; I don't think the legs have been moved, I think they just appear further apart below the knee due to the angle and perhaps a slightly fuller view of them in the second picture.

Largely I agree, I think the barrel end of the gun might have moved a little judging from the angle to the neck, but the butt end hasn't. As you say, the alignment of objects in relation to body parts is all correct, but the legs parting does look like they've widened (in my opinion), but the angle change is causing a lot distortion due to perspective.

In the other thread, someone's superimposed one shot on top of the other and jumped to far too many conclusions... they've not factored in ANY perspective change .... shoddy work!

Offline Alex

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2011, 04:10:PM »
In the other thread, someone's superimposed one shot on top of the other and jumped to far too many conclusions... they've not factored in ANY perspective change .... shoddy work!

Absolutely.

(I see what you mean about the barrel too).

Elizabeth

  • Guest
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2011, 08:14:PM »
I think it's hardly likely that someone would take their socks off before killing themselves, but if Sheila didn't kill herself, hasn't anyone thought that the socks could have been used on the killers hands (as to leave no fingerprints).

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2011, 08:21:PM »
I think it's hardly likely that someone would take their socks off before killing themselves, but if Sheila didn't kill herself, hasn't anyone thought that the socks could have been used on the killers hands (as to leave no fingerprints).

That's true Elizabeth, and whilst it's not something I put much faith in, there is SOME evidence that killings of this nature can be slightly ritualistic and people do stuff, like quoting from the bible, dressing a certain way, writing on the wall etc etc.

In the grand scheme of things, it's hardly likely anybody would kill 5 members of their family, but that happened.

For the record, I don't think she wore socks and took them off. But I am curious about how those socks are stained, and how they came to bee stained IF they weren't worn by anybody prior to the bloodshed. And if they were worn, they why removed?

Unfortunately my query is based on the assumption they are stained. The photographs might be just showing creases, or an irregular pattern.

Elizabeth

  • Guest
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2011, 11:43:PM »
I see your point, TBM, regarding killings of this nature often being ritualistic. Some great posts, by the way! Always interesting to read  :).

andrea

  • Guest
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2011, 08:33:AM »
prof bernard knight gave evidence for the defence at the trial, and said the lack of blood staining could have been due to sheila having ritualisticaly cleaned her self before turning the gun on herself.

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2011, 10:58:AM »
prof bernard knight gave evidence for the defence at the trial, and said the lack of blood staining could have been due to sheila having ritualisticaly cleaned her self before turning the gun on herself.

He did.
And it was largely discounted. Not saying that was right or wrong, it was simply discounted as 'unlikely'

andrea

  • Guest
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2011, 11:15:AM »
as is usually the case!! wonder why they thought it unlikely? its not unheard of, people cleaning themselves before suicide. Re prof bernard knight: is he quite a distinguished and respected pathologist with yrs of experience?

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2011, 12:04:PM »
as is usually the case!! wonder why they thought it unlikely? its not unheard of, people cleaning themselves before suicide. Re prof bernard knight: is he quite a distinguished and respected pathologist with yrs of experience?

Well to be honest, such ritual killings are rare, and there are more who just kill 'en masse' than do so in a ritualistic manner... but SOME have been known to do it (which is all he really said).
There was no evidence that she'd exhibited ritualistic tendencies previously either (as many who kill in a ritualistic manner do have prior to killing).

COULD sheila have washed? yes
COULD sheila have have finished the ironing before she committed suicide? yes

I suppose she could have done the killings, had a shower, shot herself twice and hoped her hair would dry, or avoided getting her hair wet, managed to dry towels, or drip dried ... I dunno, all in all it was considered unlikely, esp if the evidence was pointing to Jeremy. And that's where it gets messy. Once the evidence points to Jeremy, 'other' scenarios start to become less likely. If the evidence favoured Sheila being the killer, then the shower scenario becomes more likely.

See what I mean?

The whole bible thing too... it's either further evidence of a ritual of some sort, or it bolsters the 'made to look ritualistic' theory. But if you've gone to the trouble to wash, and place a bible strategically by your side, do you then kill yourself in a quite awkward position, and do you attempt to do so with a gun/silencer combination that doesn't really work well (not easy to pull the trigger)?



Offline lebaleb

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 884
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2011, 04:28:PM »
Once the spots of June's blood on the bedroom carpet had dried they could be walked on. The carpet would speed up the drying process.

Offline TheBrilliantMistake

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #71 on: March 09, 2011, 04:37:PM »
Once the spots of June's blood on the bedroom carpet had dried they could be walked on. The carpet would speed up the drying process.

I question the whole clean feet thing too.

IF they are saying she really should have had bloodied soles (fair argument maybe) then even if she didn't do it, somebody did... so wouldn't THEY be expected to have bloodies soles too?.... and if so - where's the analysis of bloodied footprints or transfer of blood via the killer's feet.

It's no use saying Sheila's feet SHOULD have had blood on if she did it - 'cos that means the real killer should have too.

And regardless of all that, I'm just not convinced that her soles had to be showing blood for her to be the killer. IF she was wandering around for a few hours or even 30 minutes after killing the others, she'd have to have stood in a pool of wet blood, or wet spots. A lot of the spatter was droplets, and those could wipe off the feet from walking on carpet, couldn't they? (or am I the only one who thinks this?)

Offline Alex

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2011, 04:48:PM »
Once the spots of June's blood on the bedroom carpet had dried they could be walked on. The carpet would speed up the drying process.

I question the whole clean feet thing too.

IF they are saying she really should have had bloodied soles (fair argument maybe) then even if she didn't do it, somebody did... so wouldn't THEY be expected to have bloodies soles too?.... and if so - where's the analysis of bloodied footprints or transfer of blood via the killer's feet.

It's no use saying Sheila's feet SHOULD have had blood on if she did it - 'cos that means the real killer should have too.

And regardless of all that, I'm just not convinced that her soles had to be showing blood for her to be the killer. IF she was wandering around for a few hours or even 30 minutes after killing the others, she'd have to have stood in a pool of wet blood, or wet spots. A lot of the spatter was droplets, and those could wipe off the feet from walking on carpet, couldn't they? (or am I the only one who thinks this?)

Quite.

And it was lame argument from the prosecution albeit one which they clearly believed a jury might accept.  I would like to know what JB's defence said in response to the argument - if anything; were they really that poor?

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2011, 04:39:AM »
I don't think the gun has been moved.  Judging from the view of the side of the bed and of the bible, you can tell that the angle of each shot is different.  But the the gun itself is in the same place in relation to each part of the body in both photos.  Only the arm is in a different place, as far as I can judge; I don't think the legs have been moved, I think they just appear further apart below the knee due to the angle and perhaps a slightly fuller view of them in the second picture.
-------------------------------------

Gun was moved as shown in other images:-

Also note that the end of the rifles barrel was placed in a contact position with Sheila's neck / throat an that at this stage it could have been contaminated with her DNA (which subsequently got transferred into the silencer when it was inadvertently screwed onto the guns barrel)...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 04:41:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline karma

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Sheila's feet
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2011, 08:42:AM »
Be gentle with me i'm new to this  ::)
I would be inclined to believe that the dark marks on the socks are shadows due to the the dark spots being different in each picture. I may be wrong, where these socks not taken by police and analyse?