The silencer, hand swab, and scratch marks on the aga, Conspiracy...

[lookout]

Don't take this the wrong way but I find your use of the phrase "women like her" and pretty much all of your post quite distasteful. You know nothing about her other than what has been said in a few statements selectively posted on a pro JB forum. That said, you are entitled to your opinion, because that is all it is, and I'm not going to argue with you over it.

Well,Bridget,,,I don't understand how you can find a post " distasteful " when it is a fact about " women who kill their children ".If you read that as well perhaps you'll have more of an understanding yourself on why they do it,,but sadly,it's a known fact,,and there are,and have been a lot of women " like Sheila was " with an uncontrollable psychiatric illness,,made worse by the ingestion of cannabis ( which it is said causes schizophrenia ) These are facts of life,Bridget. Unpleasant I know but firm facts.
As I'd already pointed out on another thread,that mental illness was again being brought to the fore,,as even since 1985,,,still not enough is known because it's not always a visible illness.

[maggie]

Sorry but this is nothing but speculative generalisation. Anyone working in the mental health field will know that every patient needs to be individually assessed by a professional. The idea that you can diagnose Sheila as being one of "these women" 27 years later using nothing but a bunch of 3rd party statements and decide that her own doctor was wrong is probably the most mental thing about this subject. But as I said, 'm not going to argue about it so please carry on.

Bridget Are you  qualified in psychiatry or do you work in Mental Health in another capacity?

[Bridget]

Bridget Are you  qualified in psychiatry or do you work in Mental Health in another capacity?

No. If you do, do you agree that it is not possible to diagnose someone who died 27 years ago solely by reference to statements selected to discredit that person?

[Neil]

Since the original trial, has any significant new evidence, regarding Shelia's medical condition, come to light?
For example, revelations about medication she was or wasn't taking.  Has this ever formed part of an appeal?

[lookout]

What I meant by " women like Sheila " ,was to point out that looking at Sheila's photo,you wouldn't suspect that anything was amiss,which is the same as a lot of women like her,,,,slim,,,attractive,,,,a family,,,but behind that facade lies something that none of us can predict if we don't know that person,,until something happens that appears to be " out of character ". Then the disbelief kicks in.

It's all too easy to be in denial that women can be so cruel,,but there you have it. Unless you've worked among such women,then you have no concept of their behaviour.

[maggie]

No. If you do, do you agree that it is not possible to diagnose someone who died 27 years ago solely by reference to statements selected to discredit that person?

Bridget, I dont see any of these comments discreditting Sheila. Schizophrenia is an illness. Mental health illnesses are just illnesses of the brain. Many people see it as someting to be ashamed of but is no different than cancer or other long term chronic illness. The symptoms are as clear for schizophrenia are as documented as any other illness. Sheila had exhibited hese symptoms in the past, therefore she was capable of a massive psychotic attack. I think lookout who was a peactising psychiatric nurse during the 80s is well aware of the signs and symptoms and the massive dangers of scizophrenics failing to take their medication.

[maggie]

What I meant by " women like Sheila " ,was to point out that looking at Sheila's photo,you wouldn't suspect that anything was amiss,which is the same as a lot of women like her,,,,slim,,,attractive,,,,a family,,,but behind that facade lies something that none of us can predict if we don't know that person,,until something happens that appears to be " out of character ". Then the disbelief kicks in.

It's all too easy to be in denial that women can be so cruel,,but there you have it. Unless you've worked among such women,then you have no concept of their behaviour.

lookout someone in my family was diagnosed as a scizophrenic at about 20. when he attempted suicide. He was a highly intelligent,goodlooking  young man. From that time he just couldnt function in the world at all. He was given to massive terrifying rages. No one would ever have suspected. of course this was late 60s and was only referred to in whispers.

[lookout]

No. If you do, do you agree that it is not possible to diagnose someone who died 27 years ago solely by reference to statements selected to discredit that person?

Bridget,,nobody is discrediting Sheila at all. It's your misinterpretation of a described illness that she suffered. Nobody has more sympathy for these people more than myself having worked in that field of nursing. Methinks it's more of a " selective " approach in your case.

[Bridget]

Bridget, I dont see any of these comments discreditting Sheila. Schizophrenia is an illness. Mental health illnesses are just illnesses of the brain. Many people see it as someting to be ashamed of but is no different than cancer or other long term chronic illness. The symptoms are as clear for schizophrenia are as documented as any other illness. Sheila had exhibited hese symptoms in the past, therefore she was capable of a massive psychotic attack. I think lookout who was a peactising psychiatric nurse during the 80s is well aware of the signs and symptoms and the massive dangers of scizophrenics failing to take their medication.

Hi Maggie, I am not saying that Sheila is discredited because she suffered a mental illness, but that the statements have been selected in order to highlight it and make it more than it was.

With all due respect to lookout, I prefer the opinion of Sheila's doctor, who knew her and had the opportunity to assess her properly.

Did Sheila fail to take her medication? As far as I remember she was receiving Haliperidol by injection, do you mean the other one?

[Bridget]

Bridget,,nobody is discrediting Sheila at all. It's your misinterpretation of a described illness that she suffered. Nobody has more sympathy for these people more than myself having worked in that field of nursing. Methinks it's more of a " selective " approach in your case.

Strange, because my criticism of you is the exact opposite. You seem to want to tar everyone with the same brush. That's forums for you I suppose

[-Harters-]

Strange, because my criticism of you is the exact opposite. You seem to want to tar everyone with the same brush. That's forums for you I suppose

Too much tar and not enough brushes.  :D

[lookout]

lookout someone in my family was diagnosed as a scizophrenic at about 20. when he attempted suicide. He was a highly intelligent,goodlooking  young man. From that time he just couldnt function in the world at all. He was given to massive terrifying rages. No one would ever have suspected.

Sorry to hear about that Maggie. I have every sympathy for people who have any kind of mental illness as you can't see it ( like a broken limb ) and it can strike anyone at any time. It is a frustrating illness to the patient,also a frightening one as they don't understand what's happening to them. Some of them are very angry people and it takes a lot of understanding of how they feel,,,and tons of patience.
With Sheila,,,nobody understood,and that is the sad part. There didn't appear to be any programme in which to wean her off drugs,but instead she was given anti-psychotics that would have had adverse effects on whatever " hard drug " she was taking. 

[lookout]

Strange, because my criticism of you is the exact opposite. You seem to want to tar everyone with the same brush. That's forums for you I suppose

What do you mean.? " Tar everyone with the same brush.".?

[Bridget]

Sorry to hear about that Maggie. I have every sympathy for people who have any kind of mental illness as you can't see it ( like a broken limb ) and it can strike anyone at any time. It is a frustrating illness to the patient,also a frightening one as they don't understand what's happening to them. Some of them are very angry people and it takes a lot of understanding of how they feel,,,and tons of patience.
With Sheila,,,nobody understood,and that is the sad part. There didn't appear to be any programme in which to wean her off drugs,but instead she was given anti-psychotics that would have had adverse effects on whatever " hard drug " she was taking.

There were no traces of hard drugs in her blood, only canabis from a few days previous.

[maggie]

Hi Maggie, I am not saying that Sheila is discredited because she suffered a mental illness, but that the statements have been selected in order to highlight it and make it more than it was.

With all due respect to lookout, I prefer the opinion of Sheila's doctor, who knew her and had the opportunity to assess her properly.

Did Sheila fail to take her medication? As far as I remember she was receiving Haliperidol by injection, do you mean the other one?

Trouble is bridget schizophrenia wasnt really understood even in the 80s and it was all a bit hit and miss. Remember schizophrenics were still kept in locked wards at that time. Sheila had insisted on halving her injection dose just before the deaths. Also I dont think the pm showed all her drugs she was prescribed in her body. As these drugs would in laymans terms be described as 'to dumb her down' it would appear to be a very dangrrous situation. Of course,without all those accesible guns and ammo it would have been much more difficult to cause such havoc.