Sheila on the bed, photo's withheld, blankets / sheets destroyed, carpets burned

[mike tesko]

I think that members here have said they believe it to be a hand print - but I'm not sure that it was ever thought of as one.
As far as I can recall the blood matched up with blood on her arm? or her hand? or something. Patti really is better than me when it comes to this part of the investigation - I can never find anything when I use the search feature so just try to go off memory.

See Professor Herbert Leon McDonnells (New York) report...

[mike tesko]

According to McDonnell, the bloodied handmark was made / caused when whoever stage managed her body to make it look like a suicide, moved her right arm /hand from the region of her neck and repositioned her hand which came to rest on the front lower part of her nightdress before the hand was put on the gun...

Person responsible for killing Sheila, therefore, being the same person who moved Sheila's right hand from neck to nightdress, and then onto the gun - I wonder who that could have been then?

[mike tesko]

According to McDonnell, the bloodied handmark was made / caused when whoever stage managed her body to make it look like a suicide, moved her right arm /hand from the region of her neck and repositioned her hand which came to rest on the front lower part of her nightdress before the hand was put on the gun...

Person responsible for killing Sheila, therefore, being the same person who moved Sheila's right hand from neck to nightdress, and then onto the gun - I wonder who that could have been then?

Key feature being that whoever moved right hand onto gun during the stage managing of Sheila's body, is responsible for killing her. Well, according to the initial police account no-one moved or touched anything. Then when challenged during the trial about dlscrepancies in photographs, suddenly Cook says he moved Sheila's hand so that PC Bird could photograph the bloodied handprint on the front lower part of her nightdress. He then removed the rifle from the body and stood it up against the bedroom window. He did not move or touch anything else, despite the fact
 that somebody also moved her head, moved the bible, and readjusted the hem of her night dress...

It's a mystery, therefore, who moved everything whilst only the police were in the building...

[mike tesko]

Something odd has been going on here, since according to Cook, he removed rifle from Sheila's body and stood it against the bedroom window, yet PI Montgomery also claims he removed rifle from  body, and so did PS Woodcock at 11.15am...

So, somebody isn't telling the truth (and on this occasion for once they can't blame Jeremy)...

[mike tesko]

If rifle was handled by Cook, Montgomery and Woodcock, why was it given as an exhibit (DRH/15) of DC Hammersley?

Perhaps this was / is why DC Hammersley got very upset when he was first spoken to by COLP in 1991? Was this a reference ' I didn't find it', to all the dodgy on goings involving the rifle being on and off the body at various stages. Hammersley obviouly knew the consequences of how the rifle ended up as one of his exhibits, when it really ought not to have been? Perhaps he thought he was going to end up becoming the scapegoat for Sheila having been shot by the police...

[lookout]

Yes. Apparently it was a bloodied hand print from someone. But although the police took a picture of it they didn't investigate it further and neither did forensics?

Grahame,,it was alleged that the had-print on her nightdress was a larger one than her own.

[susan]

Morning lookout how strange is that the bloodied hand print on her nightdress had not heard of this before wonder who it belonged to and how it got there.  very puzzled.

[mike tesko]

Now...

Whether you believe it or not, Sheila's body was photographed on the bed at a time when she only had one wound on her neck. Police moved her body to the bedroom floor for whatever reason. Then once they got her body on the floor they decided for whatever reason to move her right arm from an elevated position against her neck and place it on the gun for PC Bird to take photographs, of her right hand on the gun AND off it, so that a photograph could be taken of the bloodied mark on the nightdress caused when police moved her body from bed to floor...

If McDonnell is correct, then if police are responsible for moving Sheila's body, then they must have been involved when ahe was shot for the second time, and this is what they are trying to cover up...

[lookout]

Morning lookout how strange is that the bloodied hand print on her nightdress had not heard of this before wonder who it belonged to and how it got there.  very puzzled.

Morning Susan,,,yes,,by all accounts it was a " full-on " hand-print,,,not Sheila's,,so it was as though it had been placed there and not used to wipe the hand or there wouldn't have been a more prominent print.
So a man's hand obviously. I'm not sure of the whereabouts of the print on her nightdress,,I'll try and find something as to why and how that happened. Depending on the area of the print,,it could have been Nevill pushing her away..Why couldn't Nevill have knocked that rifle out of her grip.? Enough has been said about his build and how healthy he was. I'm sure he could have caught her unawares.   

[tonyb]

The original photograph of Sheila on the bed is currently on Jeremy Bambers prison file, confiscated by the prison authorities. CCRC have a copy of the other photograph of Sheila on the bed with only one wound...

But as you've stated on many occasions, you have a copy on a hard drive,and will reveal it when it suits you and you feel the time is ready. I would like to know how many more years are you intending to wait?
IMO the photo mike has described in previous SC on the bed with one wound threads, does not exist, but Mike has promised to prove me wrong.i hope he does, but hope also he doesn't make me ( or you ) wait the 9 years he's made JB wait. I have it on very good authority that this alledged photo,as Mike describes, would be a asset to the defence at this time and could provide an undeniable alibi. ie. SC with only one wound to her neck ( as opposed to only one wound visable ) would PROVE that JB did not slaughter his own family. I just can't see why mike doesn't see it that way?......

[Bridget]

Morning Susan,,,yes,,by all accounts it was a " full-on " hand-print,,,not Sheila's,,so it was as though it had been placed there and not used to wipe the hand or there wouldn't have been a more prominent print.
So a man's hand obviously. I'm not sure of the whereabouts of the print on her nightdress,,I'll try and find something as to why and how that happened. Depending on the area of the print,,it could have been Nevill pushing her away..Why couldn't Nevill have knocked that rifle out of her grip.? Enough has been said about his build and how healthy he was. I'm sure he could have caught her unawares.

The 'handprint' information is confusing. In the appeal decision there is mention of a palm print on the night dress where it lay on Sheila's upper right thigh, and a handwritten note written by Vanezis was produced which said: "bloodstained palm prints on nightdress matches bloodstains appeared to have transferred from R hand. " But McDonnell only mentions finger marks (no palm) and the photos do appear to show finger marks on her nightie over her upper right thigh (no palm). So are they confused or am I?

[lookout]

But as you've stated on many occasions, you have a copy on a hard drive,and will reveal it when it suits you and you feel the time is ready. I would like to know how many more years are you intending to wait?
IMO the photo mike has described in previous SC on the bed with one wound threads, does not exist, but Mike has promised to prove me wrong.i hope he does, but hope also he doesn't make me ( or you ) wait the 9 years he's made JB wait. I have it on very good authority that this alledged photo,as Mike describes, would be a asset to the defence at this time and could provide an undeniable alibi. ie. SC with only one wound to her neck ( as opposed to only one wound visable ) would PROVE that JB did not slaughter his own family. I just can't see why mike doesn't see it that way?......

Tonyb,,the undeniable alibi is the fact that Sheila was still alive inside while Jeremy was outside.
Neither you nor anyone else would deny that Sheila could have tried to shout out who the murderer was,,and certainly would have done had anyone else but herself been involved.
The first instinct that there was an intruder would have been to activate the intruder alarm and smash a couple of windows.? The place was locked and secured from the inside,,,so her mind was made up.

[lookout]

The 'handprint' information is confusing. In the appeal decision there is mention of a palm print on the night dress where it lay on Sheila's upper right thigh, and a handwritten note written by Vanezis was produced which said: "bloodstained palm prints on nightdress matches bloodstains appeared to have transferred from R hand. " But McDonnell only mentions finger marks (no palm) and the photos do appear to show finger marks on her nightie over her upper right thigh (no palm). So are they confused or am I?

Bridget,,I did read that on a link about an actual " hand mark " which to my mind includes not so much the palm or flat of the hand,,,but the surrounding area of the hand imprint including fingers,,, because if it had actually been the full palm,,a certain amount of pressure would have had to have been applied to get a full hand. Nevertheless,,,it was a bigger imprint than Sheila's,,,which I can only surmise that it was Nevill meekly trying to apply some sort of force to push her away.
I still can't understand why he didn't knock her cold though.He could have done. 

[Bridget]

Bridget,,I did read that on a link about an actual " hand mark " which to my mind includes not so much the palm or flat of the hand,,,but the surrounding area of the hand imprint including fingers,,, because if it had actually been the full palm,,a certain amount of pressure would have had to have been applied to get a full hand. Nevertheless,,,it was a bigger imprint than Sheila's,,,which I can only surmise that it was Nevill meekly trying to apply some sort of force to push her away.
I still can't understand why he didn't knock her cold though.He could have done.

I don't know what link you read but the photos only show what could be finger marks? And from looking at them I don't see how anyone could say that they bigger than Sheila's because they are only partial.

[Bridget]