Who were the Defendants in this case?

[bob]

Didn't Ralph also phone the police in the middle of the night? Doesn't the log confirm (by description) that he meant Sheila? Without a doubt?

No

[elphick]

No

Great, thanks for clearing that up bob.

[Nuala]

That is true Keira but I deliberately didn't include that as I've always thought it unlikely. If there was coercion then the point of it would presumably have been to get Jeremy to come to the farm so that he could also be killed - in which case would they not have made a point of getting Ralph to tell Jeremy not to phone the police?

If there was coercion:

1. Nevill could have been in so much pain, under so much pressure and so exhausted that he messed up what he'd been told to say.

2. Nevill might have attempted to deliberately sabotage the message that the person coercing him had told him to pass on.

3. Nevill may have tried to suggest on the telephone that all was not as he was telling Jeremy it was and could have been interupted by the person coercing him (and subsequently beaten?) for deviating from what he'd been told to say.

4. Nevill may have taken the opportunity to fight back during the call, catching the person coercing him unawares, so interupting the 'text' of what he had been told to say.

5. The person who was coercing Nevill could have been in a deeply disturbed or psychotic state, so may not have even considered the possibility that Jeremy might call the police.

[mike tesko]

A third party was definitely involved in Sheila's death, namely the police, yet none of these were on trail as defendants...

Let us also not forget that upon learning that all his family had been found dead inside whf, Jeremy accused the police of shooting them all dead - he made such a complaint to a police officer at the scene, but this complaint was never looked into or investigated, or if it was its findings were swept under the carpet?

[Nuala]

If there was coercion:

1. Nevill could have been in so much pain, under so much pressure and so exhausted that he messed up what he'd been told to say.

2. Nevill might have attempted to deliberately sabotage the message that the person coercing him had told him to pass on.

3. Nevill may have tried to suggest on the telephone that all was not as he was telling Jeremy it was and could have been interupted by the person coercing him (and subsequently beaten?) for deviating from what he'd been told to say.

4. Nevill may have taken the opportunity to fight back during the call, catching the person coercing him unawares, so interupting the 'text' of what he had been told to say.

5. The person who was coercing Nevill could have been in a deeply disturbed or psychotic state, so may not have even considered the possibility that Jeremy might call the police.

I am taking into account that there was a third party with, from their deranged perspective, a highly compelling motive for killing Nevill and June Bamber, Sheila and the boys - and Jeremy.

[mike tesko]

Let us also not forget that upon learning that all his family had been found dead inside whf, Jeremy accused the police of shooting them all dead - he made such a complaint to a police officer at the scene, but this complaint was never looked into or investigated, or if it was its findings were swept under the carpet?

So, when the trial judge told the jury that they had to choose between Sheila or Jeremy as to who was responsible for the shootings, he misdirected them because there was evidence that Jeremy had complained to a police officer at the scene that he thought the police had shot his family, not that Sheila or anybody else had shot them, and certainly by this stage when he made such a serious allegation to a police officer that police had shot his family, there was no suggestion that Jeremy could have shot any of them?

[mertol22]

I don't think you can blame the judge for that april.

It was Jeremy himself who brought about that summing-up, by insisting that Ralph had phoned him and told him Sheila had gone berserk with the rifle - that claim alone means that it can only have been Sheila (Jeremy told the truth) or Jeremy (Jeremy lied) that was responsible.

But jeremy had no proof that nevill made that call of his own free will

[mike tesko]

So, when the trial judge told the jury that they had to choose between Sheila or Jeremy as to who was responsible for the shootings, he misdirected them because there was evidence that Jeremy had complained to a police officer at the scene that he thought the police had shot his family, not that Sheila or anybody else had shot them, and certainly by this stage when he made such a serious allegation to a police officer that police had shot his family, there was no suggestion that Jeremy could have shot any of them?

The jury never got to hear about Jeremy's complaint to a police officer at the scene, that he thought police had shot all the members of his family, and killed them? So, they never got the opportunity to consider it or accept that there could be some-truth in it, or as the case may be  reject it. So, when the trial judge told the jury that no-one was suggesting there might have been or was a third party involvement in this case, he obviously misdirected the jury, because such evidence did exist in the form of Jeremy's observations at the material time, whilst he was present with the police at the scene?

[mike tesko]

I have received information that at the time news that all his family had been found dead inside whf was broken to Jeremy, and he made his complaint to the effect that he thought the police had shot and killed them all when they stormed into the farmhouse, that Sheila was not actually dead by that stage, and that this was why Jeremy's complaint was never investigated - since, on the basis that the police couldn't have killed everyone including Sheila by that stage because she did not die until after Jeremy left the scene...

[campion]

  May I refer to Chochok Eira's post 19, in respect of a third party.     
  Ralph Bamber is said to have been 6'4''. His nephew is of the same bloodline, so will he be of a similar stature? If he is obviously conversant with Ralph's mode of speech, then what's the 'price of fish' - to quote Hartley's phrase?

[Liz]

If there was coercion:

1. Nevill could have been in so much pain, under so much pressure and so exhausted that he messed up what he'd been told to say.

2. Nevill might have attempted to deliberately sabotage the message that the person coercing him had told him to pass on.

3. Nevill may have tried to suggest on the telephone that all was not as he was telling Jeremy it was and could have been interupted by the person coercing him (and subsequently beaten?) for deviating from what he'd been told to say.

4. Nevill may have taken the opportunity to fight back during the call, catching the person coercing him unawares, so interupting the 'text' of what he had been told to say.

5. The person who was coercing Nevill could have been in a deeply disturbed or psychotic state, so may not have even considered the possibility that Jeremy might call the police.

Great post Chochok Eira. And I agree with what you are saying. As there was no physical evidence pointing to either Sheila or Jeremy having carried out the murders, I do not believe that either were responsible. I am one of the very few on here that fimly believe in the third party scenario, and cannot understand why so many aren't even willing to consider it. I am convinced that Neville was forced to make that call to Jeremy, that the persons expected him to speed over there, and the plan was to kill him as well. But the plan backfired.

[maggie]

  May I refer to Chochok Eira's post 19, in respect of a third party.     
  Ralph Bamber is said to have been 6'4''. His nephew is of the same bloodline, so will he be of a similar stature? If he is obviously conversant with Ralph's mode of speech, then what's the 'price of fish' - to quote Hartley's phrase?

Campion, Ralph was certainly a very tall and healthy guy, whatever his age, 61 isn't old for a fit and active man.  He would and did have a go, judging by his injuries.  It does make you wonder what state the other person was in.  He surely must have fought back or it wouldn't have been necessary for him to sustain the injuries he did. I'd love to have seen the other person.  Doesn't make sense...Jeremy and Sheila were unmarked. 

[mertol22]

Great post Chochok Eira. And I agree with what you are saying. As there was no physical evidence pointing to either Sheila or Jeremy having carried out the murders, I do not believe that either were responsible. I am one of the very few on here that fimly believe in the third party scenario, and cannot understand why so many aren't even willing to consider it. I am convinced that Neville was forced to make that call to Jeremy, that the persons expected him to speed over there, and the plan was to kill him as well. But the plan backfired.

Several members also consider this 3rd scenario  including myself  i very much doubt there will be any form of surpressing such views.

[mertol22]

I have received information that at the time news that all his family had been found dead inside whf was broken to Jeremy, and he made his complaint to the effect that he thought the police had shot and killed them all when they stormed into the farmhouse, that Sheila was not actually dead by that stage, and that this was why Jeremy's complaint was never investigated - since, on the basis that the police couldn't have killed everyone including Sheila by that stage because she did not die until after Jeremy left the scene...

This may part explain why certain relatives played detective to find something on jeremy and fast to cement over now any notion the police played a part.

[mike tesko]

This may part explain why certain relatives played detective to find something on jeremy and fast to cement over now any notion the police played a part.

Well, Jeremy certainly made such a complaint to a police officer at the scene, and then he was taken away to go to his cottage to make a statement to another police officer. His complaint was never officially investigated because Sheila had not actually died by that stage, despite members of the raid team calling the find of a dead female downstairs in the region of the kitchen, and the police surgeon attending at 8:44am and pronouncing her as being dead by that time?

Police are responsible for Sheila's death in the bedroom, and police are / were the cause of the second fatal shot under the chin, although I am prepared to accept that the gun could have gone off accidentally through mis-handling...